Hello TL, I have thought about making this blog for a long time but I have been reluctant to due to fear of hate filled responses. Today I feel like the final threshold has been passed and I feel obliged to write this.
This China hating needs to stop.
As a Chinese American (both parents immigrated to America in the 1980s), I feel like the American (and other countries') animosity towards China is hypocritical, ignorant, and downright immature. To start off, China most definitely is not a perfect nation. Corruption, human rights, and censorship are all major problems. However, it is unfair to judge China at the moment.
Let's all take a history lesson: In the early 20th century, the state of China was ruled by the Guomindang (the Chinese Nationalist Party or as most Westerners know it, the Kuomintang). Although democratic, the Guomindang was full of corruption. Mao led the Gongchandang (Communist Party) in a successful uprising against the party. His strength came from the poor supporters (not by any previous Communist powers). By 1949, the People's Republic had been formed.
Forgive me for any historical inaccuracies, I believe that most of my facts are proper.
As you can see, the PRC was formed by the people, much like the United States. However, throughout my blog, keep in mind, the PRC is only 63 years old.
Let's get to some counterarguments:
Corruption: Many people see the Chinese government as one of the most corrupted governments in the world. I have heard many people call Hu Jintao a dictator.
Unfortunately, China is corrupted. No doubt about that. But why does China earn so much hate? In 2009, former Taiwanese president, Chen Shui-bian, was charged with corruption. He is now serving a 19 year sentence. The KMT was displaced for corruption; it still has corruption. Now, it is very possible that China has much more corrupted officials that have just not been charged, but to Chen Shui-bian's corruption was terrible in itself. Yet no one ever criticizes Taiwan's government. For more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Shui-bian_corruption_charges
Censorship: I am currently in China visiting relatives. Life without YouTube, Facebook, and many others is pretty difficult. The American system is to grant freedom of speech to everyone. However, it is childish to think that the American system can work for all nations. Different nations have different populations and different cultures. While it may be totally possible that the Chinese government is way too paranoid, they have all right to fear rebellions. In reality all of these censored sites can be accessed with no problem should one attempt to find a proxy. I have spoken to many Chinese peers and all of them know of these sites and regularly use them.
Tibet: This really doesn't need much explanation. The United States didn't let the South secede either. And truthfully, Tibet would be helpless without the help of China.
Communism: China isn't communist. Period.
Dirtiness: Technically, China is barely 60 years old. All countries take time to develop and for huge ass countries like China, this isn't an easy task. America had poop covered streets until a movement in the late 1800s to clean America.
There are many other points I would like to think of, but I'm sleepy so I'll leave it at this. People in China don't hate America at all. In fact, most people LOVE American culture. The radios are filled with American music and NBA is insanely popular hear. There is no way in hell China is going to war with America.
It really makes me sad when people make comments like this on TL
On June 16 2012 18:28 FYRE wrote: That photo is shopped. I can tell by the pixels around her mouth, since no one smiles in Communist countries.
User was warned for this post
and
On June 15 2012 11:20 BabyGiraldo wrote: God I get a boner every time I hear about America thwarting those commie bastards plans.
User was warned for this post
Anyways, those are my thoughts. I feel like TL should be more mature about this topic. I hope you guys will give some open minded responses. Please don't fill this with hate spam.
I'm afraid it is. Not that it is a bad thing, in my books anyway
Also, I'm sorry but I can't really take your word for it about anything regarding China since you don't actually live in China, same as I wouldnt take the word of an English guy living in South America regarding issues about England.
As you say, it's kind of funny how the Chinese communist party is itself worried of rebellions. Power to the people indeed!
On June 29 2012 23:02 Psychobabas wrote: "China isn't communist. Period."
Ο_Ο
I'm afraid it is. Not that it is a bad thing, in my books anyway
Also, I'm sorry but I can't really take your word for it about anything regarding China since you don't actually live in China, same as I wouldnt take the word of an English guy living in South America regarding issues about England.
As you say, it's kind of funny how the Chinese communist party is itself worried of rebellions. Power to the people indeed!
It's a capitalism.
And... I don't live in China. If you read, I'm a Chinese American. I live in America. (On vacation in China). But yeah, born and raised in America. Studied American history. Studied comparative government. In America.
[QUOTE]On June 29 2012 23:12 Brutaxilos wrote: [QUOTE]On June 29 2012 23:02 Psychobabas wrote: "China isn't communist. Period."
Ο_Ο
I'm afraid it is. Not that it is a bad thing, in my books anyway
Also, I'm sorry but I can't really take your word for it about anything regarding China since you don't actually live in China, same as I wouldnt take the word of an English guy living in South America regarding issues about England.
As you say, it's kind of funny how the Chinese communist party is itself worried of rebellions. Power to the people indeed! [/QUOTE] It's a capitalism. Only the name of the party is Communist Party, which it technically isn't because in Chinese its like... Together Party
On June 29 2012 23:02 Psychobabas wrote: "China isn't communist. Period."
Ο_Ο
I'm afraid it is. Not that it is a bad thing, in my books anyway
Also, I'm sorry but I can't really take your word for it about anything regarding China since you don't actually live in China, same as I wouldnt take the word of an English guy living in South America regarding issues about England.
As you say, it's kind of funny how the Chinese communist party is itself worried of rebellions. Power to the people indeed!
It's a capitalism. Only the name of the party is Communist Party, which it technically isn't because in Chinese its like... Together Party
Also, I have relatives and friends in China. Truthfully, I feel like people in China are happier than people in America... Although you can't really measure happiness. But at least the elderly get better care. Most students in China actually sleep more than me. T___T However, its probably because Americans are much more distracted by other stuff.
I would guess a lot of the hate on the web comes from how China stands out for internet censorship more than most other countries. If you go back to the 1940s (not really that long ago) parts of China went through some really rough times (my country was attacked by the same people soon after) so I always feel like I should cut China some slack since I'm cool with modern-Japan.
I'm sorry that you feel offended against this racism, they're immature and plain stupid.
But i'm guessing you know that its not easy to get rid of something this stereotypical, especially the internet, there will always be somebody who are so uneducated they make stupid mistakes like those.
1)You shouldn't talk about Tibet. You probably don't know what Tibetans think about being under the rule of the PRC. Estonia(my country) surely didn't want to be under the Soviet rule, and we're doing fine. Yeah, our economy sucks, but we don't get sent to death camps for criticising the country and it's political system, having a wrong name and so on.
2)Why do you bring up Taiwan? There is probably a lot more corruption going on in the PRC, than in Taiwan. Besides that, there are many other countries which are politically corrupted(so to say), but we don't hear about it. That is so, because it's not currently the concern of the big forces, such as the USA, EU, Russia, PRC. For example, when USA wants you to think that Egypt is corrupt and you need to save them, you will hear about it. But when all's fine for the USA, you probably won't hear about it.
3)Censorship is bad. Everyone should be allowed to express themselves in a way they want.
You have to do one of these for the USA also, just to be fair!
- China lacks unconditional free speech (they have it in their constitution, but often jail activists for "subversion" or whatever.
- They treat their workers like garbage
- One Child Policy
There's lots more....but here's some Chinese border guards sniping some Tibetans.
I don't hate China at all. I just hate many aspects of how they are governed. I do accept that in a country with a BILLION people in it, it isn't easy.
I hope that they don't find this post when they become our supreme overlords though.
I don't hate China at all. I just hate many aspects of how they are governed. I do accept that in a country with a BILLION people in it, it isn't easy.
I hope that they don't find this post when they become our supreme overlords though.
I forgot to add this but, I remember reading somewhere that China actually does have a to-do list and a self improvement schedule. Human rights and censorship is actually on it. They just haven't had the opportunity to do it improve it yet. As many people know, China is technically a second world country and there are still plenty of poor people in need of aid (which the government does provide).
Also, in response to the part where China treats its workers like shit: the government itself does not. It just does not place many restrictions (remember, when the US was 63 years old, it was using child labor and slavery). Also remember, foxconn is a Taiwanese company. > >
If you conceptualize it as an ideatypical case based on what you read on high school - college text books, sure China isn't a communist country. But if we are going by ideal-types, there are no democracies in the world either
I don't hate China at all. I just hate many aspects of how they are governed. I do accept that in a country with a BILLION people in it, it isn't easy.
I hope that they don't find this post when they become our supreme overlords though.
I forgot to add this but, I remember reading somewhere that China actually does have a to-do list and a self improvement schedule. Human rights and censorship is actually on it. They just haven't had the opportunity to do it improve it yet. As many people know, China is technically a second world country and there are still plenty of poor people in need of aid (which the government does provide).
Also, in response to the part where China treats its workers like shit: the government itself does not. It just does not place many restrictions (remember, when the US was 63 years old, it was using child labor and slavery). Also remember, foxconn is a Taiwanese company. > >
What does a Taiwanese company got to do with it? Different country altogether. You know what makes me especially sceptical about China and it's living condition for the average worker? Some real life conversations I have had with Chinese people. One memorable conversation went like this:
(the guy works in China, but lives between the U.K. and China as his wife is in England, complicated I know)
him: I get so stressed at work. me: How come? him: Because Chinese workers never listen. They are always trying to avoid work. me: Why is that, they don't like your management? him: No, it's because I get paid 40 times as much as them.
And he said that with great pride and a grin on his face... Not sure what exactly is going on over there...
I don't hate China at all. I just hate many aspects of how they are governed. I do accept that in a country with a BILLION people in it, it isn't easy.
I hope that they don't find this post when they become our supreme overlords though.
I forgot to add this but, I remember reading somewhere that China actually does have a to-do list and a self improvement schedule. Human rights and censorship is actually on it. They just haven't had the opportunity to do it improve it yet. As many people know, China is technically a second world country and there are still plenty of poor people in need of aid (which the government does provide).
Also, in response to the part where China treats its workers like shit: the government itself does not. It just does not place many restrictions (remember, when the US was 63 years old, it was using child labor and slavery). Also remember, foxconn is a Taiwanese company. > >
Well ... i think people in China ar ok with what is happening there, bacause otherwise they could make a civil war against they leaders ... and i dont know of any such thing there.
I Dont agree with the assumption of "they have a TODO list, but they did not get into this matter yet ..." Looks like you ar speaking about something that dont really matter ... censorship and Human rights ON MY OPinion, ar really important, but again, if they did not go to the streets protest and etc, they dont really care about it. And if its ok for then, its ok for me.
You keep saying China's only 60 years old but 1900s/2000s is different from 1700s/1800s. Obviously, technology advanced so greatly that dirtiness during the industrial revolution is different from China's dirtiness (even though China's industrial based now)
3. China is not 60 years old. America is 200-something years old. During the last 500 years a totally new subset of humans crossed the ocean and conquered the original inhabitants. It's grim, horrible stuff. China has been a continual civilization of the same ethnicity and subgroups since Babylon.
2. Oh_but_thats_where_your_wrong.jpg. Funny enough, the concept of New China comes from the Communist party. China is no longer traditional communism, I'll grant you that, but unless you've mixed up your country with Taiwan, it's still a communist republic.
1. Holy shit China represses the shit out of Tibet. You've shown ignorance over the Civil War and the Chinese invasion of Tibet. Just because they did it doesn't make it right. China incorporated Tibet for 200ish years, Tibet declared independence, Communist China re-invaded Tibet. Communist China turned Tibetan heritage into rubble then repressed dissent for 50 years.
Not. Really. Good. Examples. Man.
Think whatever you think but you've done an amazing job not representing anything bad that China does while inappropriately drawing analogies to other things when you couldn't describe something without admitting to outrages.
I keep wanting to write more but.. well, I can tell by your blog that you're just fishing. I hate it when people bash my country too. That doesn't mean I pretend we sent all the native americans to summer camp. I keep wanting to rewrite this more thoughtfully and extend out my points but I really doubt your sincerity.
If a small proportion of TL users who write stupid troll shit offends you then I can't really say anything to help. They'll get banned and we'll all move on. Just like when every other country gets bashed for reason XYZ.
As someone planning to move to China in the next few months, take my words with a grain of salt.
I think it's true there is an unnecessary amount of hate directed towards China. If you want a realistic viewpoint of the average Chinese citizen, go to a website that has translated news comments, or a social network. The government puts out SO much propaganda and then there's the 50 cent party (网络评论员) making unrealistic posts haha...
I think ChinaSmack is the best site I've come across for getting the viewpoints of the average Chinese citizen. They have the news, then the comments, and it's all translated and the colloquialisms are explained.
The US has always been quite suspicious of Russia/China because they're big enough to be able to exert an influence opposing American interests and they're different enough from the West to be difficult to understand. Knowing US history from about the 1880s explains a lot. This is not to say that everything that happens in these countries is justified, of course.
Augh, wrong arguments on both sides, terrible facts that are devoid of value, I don't even want to engage. pm me if you actually have any respect for truth and human life and don't just want to win internet arguments. This is terrible.
Since when does the actions of a nation state government constitute a legitimate representation of the people if not by shear coincidence of elite interests being shared by the interests of the majority? List me 1 policy in China which actually constitutes Communism right now, for added challenge, list me why it's actually wrong on principle; and if the problem is with its implementation, then it's not a moral basis for argument, simply a strategic one. I can rationalize America's economical success through the legitimizing of financial institutions and monetary and political manipulation as a tactic, but that has nothing to do with rather the action itself is moral.
If you actually have regard for human life and progress answer me this: Why do you hate those who are suppressed instead of trying to sympathize with them? Why do you hate those who are powerless instead of striving to help them? Why do you hate the ignorant and uneducated rather than trying to educate them? Why do you hate those who you've never meet instead of trying to understand them? Why do you hate the less fortunate instead of being charitable?
If you do think that you yourself, as well as the population or community you represent is better morally and socially than the Chinese, then act like it and rather than simply criticizing a problem, offer solutions and help. Nothing about hating China is constructive. I for one do not identify a person by his nationality or ethnicity at all, because I understand that it's completely outside of an individual's power to influence the situations of his/her birth - let alone prejudice someone on a changing temporary political system that's also out of the control of the vast majority of the people on the planet - instead I simply use the background knowledge to understand and rationalize the experiences that person would have had.
I don't know.. I personally took those two comments you were offended by as jokes, not deliberate china-hating. I mean come on, the guy talks about how he gets a boner? You just can't take that stuff seriously. And that nobody smiles in China? Do you really think someone believes that? I admit there are some pretty zany conspiracy theorists out there and there's a chance someone actually types these things with a serious mindset, but I would think its much more likely to be an example of over-exaggeration for comedic effect.
I don't hate China at all. I just hate many aspects of how they are governed. I do accept that in a country with a BILLION people in it, it isn't easy.
I hope that they don't find this post when they become our supreme overlords though.
I forgot to add this but, I remember reading somewhere that China actually does have a to-do list and a self improvement schedule. Human rights and censorship is actually on it. They just haven't had the opportunity to do it improve it yet. As many people know, China is technically a second world country and there are still plenty of poor people in need of aid (which the government does provide).
Also, in response to the part where China treats its workers like shit: the government itself does not. It just does not place many restrictions (remember, when the US was 63 years old, it was using child labor and slavery). Also remember, foxconn is a Taiwanese company. > >
Well ... i think people in China ar ok with what is happening there, bacause otherwise they could make a civil war against they leaders ... and i dont know of any such thing there.
I Dont agree with the assumption of "they have a TODO list, but they did not get into this matter yet ..." Looks like you ar speaking about something that dont really matter ... censorship and Human rights ON MY OPinion, ar really important, but again, if they did not go to the streets protest and etc, they dont really care about it. And if its ok for then, its ok for me.
The thing is, thanks to the censorship, the people DONT really know whats happening there. The people are being left in the dark. the primary reason for that is the leadership is extremely afraid of what you mentioned- that the rural peoples will rebel and start a civil war.
I lived in China for 6 months (@ Zhejiang University in Hangzhou) and I asked many of the students how they felt about the whole situation - censorship, one child policy, etc. It seemed like most of them simply accepted it as something they had to live with. Some of the people are just ignorant about it - they kind of assume every country is the same or that they're not being fed a censored news feed. Others are aware of it but see it as a necessary evil to have stability - Keep in mind that this is a country that has had some of the largest bloodiest civil wars in history, and the culture places a high value on stability. When you look at it from their point of view, the way the government behaves makes perfect sense.
EPT
