On June 29 2012 23:28 Zorkmid wrote: You have to do one of these for the USA also, just to be fair!
- China lacks unconditional free speech (they have it in their constitution, but often jail activists for "subversion" or whatever.
- They treat their workers like garbage
- One Child Policy
There's lots more....but here's some Chinese border guards sniping some Tibetans.
I don't hate China at all. I just hate many aspects of how they are governed. I do accept that in a country with a BILLION people in it, it isn't easy.
I hope that they don't find this post when they become our supreme overlords though.
I forgot to add this but, I remember reading somewhere that China actually does have a to-do list and a self improvement schedule. Human rights and censorship is actually on it. They just haven't had the opportunity to do it improve it yet. As many people know, China is technically a second world country and there are still plenty of poor people in need of aid (which the government does provide).
Also, in response to the part where China treats its workers like shit: the government itself does not. It just does not place many restrictions (remember, when the US was 63 years old, it was using child labor and slavery). Also remember, foxconn is a Taiwanese company. > >
Well ... i think people in China ar ok with what is happening there, bacause otherwise they could make a civil war against they leaders ... and i dont know of any such thing there.
I Dont agree with the assumption of "they have a TODO list, but they did not get into this matter yet ..." Looks like you ar speaking about something that dont really matter ... censorship and Human rights ON MY OPinion, ar really important, but again, if they did not go to the streets protest and etc, they dont really care about it. And if its ok for then, its ok for me.
It isn't in assumption. They do have one. Hu himself talked about it when being pressured by Americans when he visited America. I can't find the article but they definitely do have a to do list.
Regarding the 60 year old thing. That has plenty to do with China's development. Remember, China basically started from scratch (my parents were all born in third world conditions). Basically take maybe 10 countries an Africa and lead them for 60 years. Technology doesn't really matter in a countries development. It's like saying kids don't need to go through puberty because we have iPhones and the internet. Every country needs its development and I'm sure every country has had corruption and abuses.
Speaking of Tibet, no matter how right Tibet could be in this situation, my point is: you can't blame a country for resisting secession. Even countries like the UK, which is infamous for their freeing of their colonies maintains diplomatic and societal influences on the states.
I speak of Taiwan a lot because Taiwan has the same culture and society as China (I don't want to get into its sovereignty right now). The only difference is the style of government. Despite this, Taiwan has many of the same issues as China (corruption, counterfeiting etc). This shows that its more of a societal issue than a communist issue. Don't get me wrong, Taiwan is still a nicer place to live, but I would argue that its due to its smaller population and smaller area which makes it much easier to rule. (the Guomindang didn't rule mainland China nearly as well)
Anyways, those are just my thoughts. I recommend to anyone who thinks really harshly of China to visit there for a week or two and visit the other Asian countries or some other second world country. The only visible difference that I can perceive is the censorship of some websites (mostly entertainment sites, Wikipedia and Google are both open :D). It really isn't as bad as it seems.
I work at a Chinese restaurant (and have been there for five years), and every single person here either hasn't returned to china or they refuse to ever move back. They hate the place.
There's obviously many reasons why china sucks. Unfortunately, without freedom of speech it's going to be hard to form and uprising
On June 30 2012 11:08 ranshaked wrote: I work at a Chinese restaurant (and have been there for five years), and every single person here either hasn't returned to china or they refuse to ever move back. They hate the place.
There's obviously many reasons why china sucks. Unfortunately, without freedom of speech it's going to be hard to form and uprising
To be fair, that's a biased sample. They're here because they don't like China, while Chinese that do like it wouldn't leave.
On June 30 2012 11:08 ranshaked wrote: I work at a Chinese restaurant (and have been there for five years), and every single person here either hasn't returned to china or they refuse to ever move back. They hate the place.
There's obviously many reasons why china sucks. Unfortunately, without freedom of speech it's going to be hard to form and uprising
Just saying, you don't get sent to jail for just saying the government sucks... The people who are taken are those who attempt to start uprisings. It's not like there's a police officer in every house or bugs to listen in on your conversations. You have to make yourself REALLY visible to qualify to be taken in.
I wasn't aware that Americans hated China. If it's true it's obviously because: A) Americans are xenophobes second only to the Japanese. If this is the case then don't worry, they hate everyone equally and aren't discriminating against China or anything. (Maybe Chinese are synonymous to those dirty wetbacks "stealin' are jobs" for most of them?) B) Cheap labor = death of American manufacturing. I'm sure a lot of Americans are pissed they can't have the easy jobs and have to go to school to make ends meet. C) China poses a challenge to American influence over the entire region, and they see this as a threat personally.
I'm under the impression that the American hate for China stems for its social need to be the "good guys". America is always justifying itself like a self-conscious, bullying teenager (democracy and free speech does that to people), because it acts very violently and aggressively in its own interest (and rightly so, I suppose). It seems to have always needed an enemy or "Axis of Evil" (lol), and after Nazi Germany, the USSR and "terrorism" (pretty much the euphemism for Middle Eastern countries in American lingo), the next big baddie is China.
Unfortunately, because China is not an outwardly violent country (even historically, it's mostly been fighting civil wars if any at all) America has often tried to frame China as a country with self-destructive and hateful flaws. America is fighting a PR war against China because it perceives that China is fighting an economic war against it (and perhaps, they're right, but then again, it's only natural that China overtakes American economically since their population is just that much bigger).
Note: this is a poorly written post with no sources so please don't get too worked up about my personal opinion
There's been just as much in-fighting between the Western countries here as well. Look at the topics when Brevik's sentencing happened. You're only seeing a lot of China hate because China's showing up a lot, with Shenzhou 9 and the South China Sea issue. Don't listen to the retards that are gungho anti-Commie, they're reminents of the cold war.
I'm Chinese and I don't like China. I don't blame the people per se, because they were born into the situation out of pure luck. But much of the people and culture of China is just so ass-backwards and regressive that it will take centuries for the nation to come to grips with itself and admit to itself that it's got some serious problems that need addressing.
On the other hand, it's funny to see Westerners talk about hating China mainly because it "doesn't have free speech" or "it's communist" or whatever other inane reason. If you know China like I do (and I'm not even the most knowledgeable), there are SO MANY worse things than the lack of free speech in China that I can only laugh at your pathetic attempts to "hate" on China. Most Westerners cannot even conceive of the sheer level of dog-eat-dog corruption and suffering that happens to some of the citizens of China.
There are millions of Chinese people who still live on farms without electricity, in the same state they have lived in for millenia. There are students of poor families who, through sacrifice and hard work of both parents and the child, manage to earn good grades in school, only to have their scholastic records stolen and sold to rich upper-class families by corrupt teachers so that the children of the rich families can go to good schools. There are people who are injured in factory accidents and become disabled, only to be shunned by the very society they slaved away for to become homeless until they die. There are homeless mothers who maim their infants on purpose to appear more pitiful as they beg for money. The vast majority of Chinese who have access to television and world events, even the well educated ones, generally hold the view that white skin is better than black skin. They universally look upon caucasians as superior and black people as inferior.
And so on, so forth. If you want to hate China, lack of freedom of speech barely begins to scratch the surface as a legitimate reason. Do your research first.
On June 29 2012 23:02 Psychobabas wrote: "China isn't communist. Period."
Ο_Ο
I'm afraid it is. Not that it is a bad thing, in my books anyway
Also, I'm sorry but I can't really take your word for it about anything regarding China since you don't actually live in China, same as I wouldnt take the word of an English guy living in South America regarding issues about England.
As you say, it's kind of funny how the Chinese communist party is itself worried of rebellions. Power to the people indeed!
I've lived in China for six months myself. In Xiamen, located in the Fujian province close to Taiwan. While I agree with the original post that there is a certain degree of corruption, I also know from personal contacts and experiences that any person found to be corrupt and being reported to the government, generally gets investigated and/or punished within a week time from the report.
My experience was that, while there are definatly still some Communist elements in the country, it's not a communist country as a whole. There's a lot more freedom than people realise, and most of the things people who haven't been in China know, is Western propaganda. Censorship, it sounds bad and definatly isn't favourable but you can easily get around it. My experience also says that they are much more lenient with the laws on a personal basis. While you would get a massive fee for driving a few miles too fast in the US/EU, they don't bother as much in China. There are a few unwritten rules about the Chinese society which when you know them are actually really not that weird.
For example, as a foreigner you will never join a fight as you'll lose it guaranteed once the cops are involved. Which is about almost anywhere in the world. You're not going to be disrespectful to the government, and you're fine. Disagreeing doesn't warrant to be disrespectful. Friendships and business depend mostly on personal contact. You establish a sense of trust with your partners in business, as that's how they trust you'll do good business with them.
I always tell my friends this: The current China is experiencing an evolution that the West experienced in the 1960's. This is due to the fact that they opened their borders and it progressively changes. But it requires time.
I absolutely love China, I kind of disagree a bit with the post above but maybe that's just because I've been there for a limited time, in a decent city. The post makes it sound much more grim than you'll get to notice on a personal basis.
I should one day write a proper blog about China, and my experiences.
On June 30 2012 18:05 Newbistic wrote: Most Westerners cannot even conceive of the sheer level of dog-eat-dog corruption and suffering that happens to some of the citizens of China.
I think at the rate we're going the US could overtake China on the corruption scale. Of course it will still look better on paper so we needn't worry about what's left of our reputation.
On June 29 2012 23:02 Psychobabas wrote: "China isn't communist. Period."
Ο_Ο
I'm afraid it is. Not that it is a bad thing, in my books anyway
Also, I'm sorry but I can't really take your word for it about anything regarding China since you don't actually live in China, same as I wouldnt take the word of an English guy living in South America regarding issues about England.
As you say, it's kind of funny how the Chinese communist party is itself worried of rebellions. Power to the people indeed!
I've lived in China for six months myself. In Xiamen, located in the Fujian province close to Taiwan. While I agree with the original post that there is a certain degree of corruption, I also know from personal contacts and experiences that any person found to be corrupt and being reported to the government, generally gets investigated and/or punished within a week time from the report.
My experience was that, while there are definatly still some Communist elements in the country, it's not a communist country as a whole. There's a lot more freedom than people realise, and most of the things people who haven't been in China know, is Western propaganda. Censorship, it sounds bad and definatly isn't favourable but you can easily get around it. My experience also says that they are much more lenient with the laws on a personal basis. While you would get a massive fee for driving a few miles too fast in the US/EU, they don't bother as much in China. There are a few unwritten rules about the Chinese society which when you know them are actually really not that weird.
For example, as a foreigner you will never join a fight as you'll lose it guaranteed once the cops are involved. Which is about almost anywhere in the world. You're not going to be disrespectful to the government, and you're fine. Disagreeing doesn't warrant to be disrespectful. Friendships and business depend mostly on personal contact. You establish a sense of trust with your partners in business, as that's how they trust you'll do good business with them.
I always tell my friends this: The current China is experiencing an evolution that the West experienced in the 1960's. This is due to the fact that they opened their borders and it progressively changes. But it requires time.
I absolutely love China, I kind of disagree a bit with the post above but maybe that's just because I've been there for a limited time, in a decent city. The post makes it sound much more grim than you'll get to notice on a personal basis.
I should one day write a proper blog about China, and my experiences.
People should try to fix their own country before pointing fingers towards another country and tell them what they are doing wrong. What I mean with this is, look at yourself and your own country and think if you have the right to criticize other people and countries.
But of course everyone should be able to express their own feelings and opinion. Why people keep hating and not try and help. With help I mean do it in a peaceful way and not breaking the whole society/country.
Look at the chaos other countries have now, trying to change their government in a short time. Is that the right method to change your country? I don't know time will tell, but so far I see it, is that the citizen suffers the most from it.
China is still young and I think most Chinese people agree that China needs to change. But it is impossible to change a country in a short time without chaos, especially a country with more than a billion people.
EPT
