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Croatia9558 Posts
On June 18 2012 08:26 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. I'm angry and bitter that BW is dying. I actually cried when I realized BW was no more. I fully get where people are coming from. I'd like to think that the thousands of hours I've spent watching BW, the amount of threads I've read and the emotional investment i've had in the game make me eligible to consider myself a "vet", regardless of join date. I understand if you disagree though This whole blog spawned as a response to a lot of post I've been seeing *outside* of the bw section. I'm sorry this blog upsets you, because you are a person I very much respect, but my point stands that being angry doesn't justify these behaviors. I'm categorizing the whole bw community because this is what any outsider looking in is going to see. Go into the flash meme thread, or into any of the multiple threads that even mention BW and SC2 and all you see is a bitter attitude that overshadows any positive comments from any other BW fans. Negativity has a much larger impact than positiveness, and this is how the broodwar community is portraying itself, weather or not you want to consider me a member of it.
I can agree that the being angry doesn't justify posting stuff like that, but being angry makes you have those thoughts regardless of what kind of person you are. There are just people with little self control on their posting habits, but there are people like that in every community.
I got upset because you said you were ashamed to be associated with the BW veterans who love a dying game, and I am a BW veteran who loves a dying game...
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United States22154 Posts
On June 18 2012 08:34 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:26 GMarshal wrote:On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. I'm angry and bitter that BW is dying. I actually cried when I realized BW was no more. I fully get where people are coming from. I'd like to think that the thousands of hours I've spent watching BW, the amount of threads I've read and the emotional investment i've had in the game make me eligible to consider myself a "vet", regardless of join date. I understand if you disagree though This whole blog spawned as a response to a lot of post I've been seeing *outside* of the bw section. I'm sorry this blog upsets you, because you are a person I very much respect, but my point stands that being angry doesn't justify these behaviors. I'm categorizing the whole bw community because this is what any outsider looking in is going to see. Go into the flash meme thread, or into any of the multiple threads that even mention BW and SC2 and all you see is a bitter attitude that overshadows any positive comments from any other BW fans. Negativity has a much larger impact than positiveness, and this is how the broodwar community is portraying itself, weather or not you want to consider me a member of it. I can agree that the being angry doesn't justify posting stuff like that, but being angry makes you have those thoughts regardless of what kind of person you are. There are just people with little self control on their posting habits, but there are people like that in every community. I got upset because you said you were ashamed to be associated with the BW veterans who love a dying game, and I am a BW veteran who loves a dying game...
Its hyperbole, I'm trying to get an emotional reaction. I'm ashamed to be associated with a bitter, cynical poisonous attitude, which is the point the blog was trying get across. I love the BW community to pieces. it has some of the coolest and best people I know, but a splinter group of that is essentially shaming all of us. I'm sorry that I didn't translate that point as effectively as I wanted and instead upset you.
<3
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2pac just a silly Costa RicanCroatian, don't mind him..
:D <3
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On June 18 2012 08:19 ZoW wrote:yes, yes we do
ZoW knows what's up!
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Canada11607 Posts
Well to be fair GMarshal goes through a LOT of reports and I expect a lot of them deal with the SC2 vs BW... a sort of concentrated mix of the dark underbelly of the TL community.
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wouldn't call yourself a bw vet if your join date is past jan 2010.. thats when tl started getting a massive influx of ppl because of sc2 beta
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United States22154 Posts
On June 18 2012 08:56 lFrost wrote:
wouldn't call yourself a bw vet if your join date is past jan 2010.. thats when tl started getting a massive influx of ppl because of sc2 beta
I joined before I knew about the sc2 beta, and I'd been lurking for quite some time. (I was around for the Savior scandal for example [ok, fine I was around for the *tail end* of the savior scandal]) and the first event I watched live was the power outage finals.
Whether I'm a "vet" or not is debatable, I do know I love BW and for about three years its been an important part of my life.
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I suppose i shouldn't speak due to recent join date, but bw has a special place in my heart, and i am sick of the wishing for the death of either game. Would i be happy if sc2 crashed and burned, not really even if it meant bw came back, I am not sure, as it will never happen. I understand that it sucks to see something that you (and i even if my join date disagrees) have spent so much time and passion into. It sucks, but we as bw fans should be trying to save what we can, and not flaming others for loving their game, as we love ours. this means we should be watching the living shit out of larva and eagle and any other korean amateur and semi pro streamer who tries to connect with the foreign community, we should watch the hell out of isl, and we should never forget all the great memories we all have, even if they become all we have. Don't attack others for being fans of their favorite game, and if you want to move on to lol or dota you can, but remember how you feel when you see someone telling us that we should let our game die, and don't do that to the sc2 fans.
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On June 18 2012 08:41 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:19 ZoW wrote:do you want to be remembered as a bunch of elitist assholes? yes, yes we do ZoW knows what's up!
Sad, you two are my bestest of buddies, and while I do subscribe to BW elitism, I believe wholeheartedly some people are taking it a step too far. As much as I love Brood War (and as much more that I like it than SC2), I do everything within my power to avoid stepping headlong into the silly and flat out wrong shit that gets spewed by people whose opinions I otherwise respect. I've almost completely stopped reading the BW forums for just that reason; It's cringeworthy. Long story short, if it comes with the baggage of spewing nonsensical BS in a knee jerk reaction to a situation I don't like, I'll gladly renounce the personal label of "BW Elitist", even if it's just to help me sleep at night. [/rant]
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So, what do you want people to take from this blog? Shame?
You wield a hammer here. You fully know that your blog posts will have much greater impact in the community simply for the icon beside your name and the power you hold with your title.
Lead us by example, GM. I'm not ashamed to be part of this community.
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I agree with everything you said. I love BW, I've loved it ever since it's inception back in '98. I've only discovered progaming in 2005, but I've loved every bit I've watched. Before then, some guy in a channel on battle.net once said that the two best players in the world were playing, Boxer and NaDa, and that Boxer was #1 and NaDa was #2. I had no clue who they were, but somewhere I started rooting for NaDa, despite never having seen a game of him. This really developed when I did, and when NaDa got the golden mouse that was an amazing moment for me. I don't hate SC2, it's natural progression. I will miss BW, but there's nothing more we can do to keep BW Progaming alive. It will end after this season, but don't give up on your heroes even if they're switching to a different game. It wasn't their choice, and they're still the same players they were before. I still cheer for NaDa in SC2 (and play it myself too), and will cheer for all my favorite players in SC2. As much as it pains me that BW has had it's time, it's not the fault of the SC2 fans, SC2 players or any individual person. Relish the memories of Savior vs Bisu, NaDa getting his golden mouse or whichever BW moment you enjoy most, for these memories will last forever.
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On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. Show nested quote +And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break.
What this guy said.
Also it could be worse: you could be part of a community that routinely goes on witch hunt and spams the sponsors of a team because someone dug up a screenshot of some guy insulting someone else over the internet.
Or you could be part of a community that prides itself in sexism because " sexism is part of the fighting games community "
And don't even get me started on league of legends ...
Seriously, saying you're ashamed because of a few comments...
Besides i don't see many BW fan randomly joining SC2 stream chats and going like " PEOPLE STILL PLAY THIS GAME ? " " LOL THIS IS SO UGLY ! " etc etc ...
SC2 fans are far worse in that regard.
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I can believe I catch shit for some of the things I post on here, but this blog puts my cynicism to shame.
First of all -- what BW fans? Everyone is gone. Mustaju (could never spell his name right), kona, DH, Zona... Some cameos are made Hyde, or GTR, but where are Roffles, LoLwip, StorkHwaiting, Megalisk(uuu)? It's gotten so bad that there wasn't even a BW LR thread for ACE vs CJ. Got that? No one wanted to spend 2 minutes to piece together an LR, myself included.
Here's something I told Ribbon a few weeks ago: of course SC2 and BW are directly compared in LR threads: They're being played side by side! We are expected to adapt to the full --> SC2 transition. This isn't like that STX league with that FPS and BW being played together. This is sequel and prequel, one being moved in, the other being pushed out.
And let's be fair: other than the "elitism" aspect, everyone's dropped out because the game quality has been quite awful, for both games. And there still seems to be no rhythm with the casters during SC2 matches.
No, I don't root for BW gamers to go over to LoL... I wish most of these gamers would quit and go to college or learn a trade, get lasting careers, not everyone can be a Reach or Boxer or January (team coach, team owner, etc.) when it comes to longevity in gaming careers. I hope the same for SC2 players, LoL players, and so on. They're just games at the end of the day.
I really wish they would just put my BW out of its misery. This joke of a league only hurts the players and the viewers.
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United States22154 Posts
On June 18 2012 09:07 OpticalShot wrote:
So, what do you want people to take from this blog? Shame?
You wield a hammer here. You fully know that your blog posts will have much greater impact in the community simply for the icon beside your name and the power you hold with your title.
Lead us by example, GM. I'm not ashamed to be part of this community.
I want people to take the realization that you can't blame the SC2 community for the death of BW and to behave with dignity.
I'd like to think I have behaved with dignity, even when I realized that all the players I loved were probably out of bw in less than a year.
EDIT: I retouched the opening hyperbole as people seem to get caught up in it.
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On June 18 2012 09:13 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
I can believe I catch shit for some of the things I post on here, but this blog puts my cynicism to shame.
First of all -- what BW fans? Everyone is gone. Mustaju (could never spell his name right), kona, DH, Zona... Some cameos are made Hyde, or GTR, but where are Roffles, LoLwip, StorkHwaiting, Megalisk(uuu)? It's gotten so bad that there wasn't even a BW LR thread for ACE vs CJ. Got that? No one wanted to spend 2 minutes to piece together an LR, myself included.
Here's something I told Ribbon a few weeks ago: of course SC2 and BW are directly compared in LR threads: They're being played side by side! We are expected to adapt to the full --> SC2 transition. This isn't like that STX league with that FPS and BW being played together. This is sequel and prequel, one being moved in, the other being pushed out.
And let's be fair: other than the "elitism" aspect, everyone's dropped out because the game quality has been quite awful, for both games. And there still seems to be no rhythm with the casters during SC2 matches.
No, I don't root for BW gamers to go over to LoL... I wish most of these gamers would quit and go to college or learn a trade, get lasting careers, not everyone can be a Reach or Boxer or January (team coach, team owner, etc.) when it comes to longevity in gaming careers. I hope the same for SC2 players, LoL players, and so on. They're just games at the end of the day.
I really wish they would just put my BW out of its misery. This joke of a league only hurts the players and the viewers.
maybe it's just me, but i'm actually really enjoying this hybrid league.
yes, i'm sad that BW is going, but that hasn't really sunk in yet, i'll probably be incredibly depressed at the end of this OSL and PL, but i'll leave that for then.
right now i'm enjoying having a front row seat to watch some of the most talented gamers ever learn a new game from scratch. I root for my team, but it's not about the results, it's about the stories.
I'm sad about BW, but i'm excited about sc2.
lack of LR thread is a crime though. LRs and the SVT are the heart of broodwar.
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Don't worry the angry fellows will get over their dead puppy, cherish its memory, calm down and adopt a new puppy with time.
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Also:
On June 18 2012 07:46 GMarshal wrote:
And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another.
Careful, your true colors are showing.
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It might help if you end on a positive note in your OP about all the BW people who aren't using their loss as an excuse to be an ass to everyone. You said you were ashamed to be associated with the BW community, but I think it might be more accurate to say you are ashamed by certain behavior in your community.
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On June 18 2012 08:37 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:34 2Pacalypse- wrote:On June 18 2012 08:26 GMarshal wrote:On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. I'm angry and bitter that BW is dying. I actually cried when I realized BW was no more. I fully get where people are coming from. I'd like to think that the thousands of hours I've spent watching BW, the amount of threads I've read and the emotional investment i've had in the game make me eligible to consider myself a "vet", regardless of join date. I understand if you disagree though This whole blog spawned as a response to a lot of post I've been seeing *outside* of the bw section. I'm sorry this blog upsets you, because you are a person I very much respect, but my point stands that being angry doesn't justify these behaviors. I'm categorizing the whole bw community because this is what any outsider looking in is going to see. Go into the flash meme thread, or into any of the multiple threads that even mention BW and SC2 and all you see is a bitter attitude that overshadows any positive comments from any other BW fans. Negativity has a much larger impact than positiveness, and this is how the broodwar community is portraying itself, weather or not you want to consider me a member of it. I can agree that the being angry doesn't justify posting stuff like that, but being angry makes you have those thoughts regardless of what kind of person you are. There are just people with little self control on their posting habits, but there are people like that in every community. I got upset because you said you were ashamed to be associated with the BW veterans who love a dying game, and I am a BW veteran who loves a dying game... Its hyperbole, I'm trying to get an emotional reaction. I'm ashamed to be associated with a bitter, cynical poisonous attitude, which is the point the blog was trying get across. I love the BW community to pieces. it has some of the coolest and best people I know, but a splinter group of that is essentially shaming all of us. I'm sorry that I didn't translate that point as effectively as I wanted and instead upset you. <3
That splinter group you are referring to doesn't really have any vets in it. I mostly see some new guys who joined the forum around the time SC2 was announced. A vet is a guy who's played the shit out of the game for many many years and continues to play the shit out of the game, not someone who has 10k posts in LR threads.
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On June 18 2012 09:23 craz3d wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:37 GMarshal wrote:On June 18 2012 08:34 2Pacalypse- wrote:On June 18 2012 08:26 GMarshal wrote:On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. I'm angry and bitter that BW is dying. I actually cried when I realized BW was no more. I fully get where people are coming from. I'd like to think that the thousands of hours I've spent watching BW, the amount of threads I've read and the emotional investment i've had in the game make me eligible to consider myself a "vet", regardless of join date. I understand if you disagree though This whole blog spawned as a response to a lot of post I've been seeing *outside* of the bw section. I'm sorry this blog upsets you, because you are a person I very much respect, but my point stands that being angry doesn't justify these behaviors. I'm categorizing the whole bw community because this is what any outsider looking in is going to see. Go into the flash meme thread, or into any of the multiple threads that even mention BW and SC2 and all you see is a bitter attitude that overshadows any positive comments from any other BW fans. Negativity has a much larger impact than positiveness, and this is how the broodwar community is portraying itself, weather or not you want to consider me a member of it. I can agree that the being angry doesn't justify posting stuff like that, but being angry makes you have those thoughts regardless of what kind of person you are. There are just people with little self control on their posting habits, but there are people like that in every community. I got upset because you said you were ashamed to be associated with the BW veterans who love a dying game, and I am a BW veteran who loves a dying game... Its hyperbole, I'm trying to get an emotional reaction. I'm ashamed to be associated with a bitter, cynical poisonous attitude, which is the point the blog was trying get across. I love the BW community to pieces. it has some of the coolest and best people I know, but a splinter group of that is essentially shaming all of us. I'm sorry that I didn't translate that point as effectively as I wanted and instead upset you. <3 That splinter group you are referring to doesn't really have any vets in it. I mostly see some new guys who joined the forum around the time SC2 was announced. A vet is a guy who's played the shit out of the game for many many years and continues to play the shit out of the game, not someone who has 10k posts in LR threads.
I agree with your definition of vet.
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EPT
