EPTI don't really mind the overlord buff though, i think the less ways players have to die in silly ways (ie they miss scouting somethig), the better for the game.
TvZ is a joke currently - Page 9
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
I don't really mind the overlord buff though, i think the less ways players have to die in silly ways (ie they miss scouting somethig), the better for the game. | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
Now Z have the early T3 feeling high hp long range spellcaster Queen, a midgame with 2 2 upgrades at the 12 minute mark and still T3 units which are just better. At the moment i play some sort of 1 rax expand --> 3 fax hellions --> Mech --> hidden BC´s to max out. I´m fine with that but it sucks really hard that i have only the choise to be a league better, to scv allin or to make a gimicky build and hope that my zerg friend never scouts. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
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KonohaFlash
Canada1590 Posts
On June 18 2012 18:46 Snowbear wrote: I think blizzard will try to fix this with a revert of the queen buff, but it won't change the mu imo. I'd much rather they not nerf anything, but buff terran. It's only fair | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
If left uncheked in the first 10 minutes, zerg will win in lategame. Risk free builds for Zerg against Terran all ins Great aggressive options for Zerg against Terran macro builds. Terran has no good aggressive options anymore and no way to pressure the zerg if going for a macro builds, whilst zerg can do both. I don't mind because I just switched to Zerg after playing Terran for 1.5 years. I got bored from Terran. | ||
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
On June 18 2012 08:03 yeint wrote: Steel, wouldn't a snipe un-nerf be a perfect solution? It wouldn't affect any of the other TvX matchups at all, and it would not require nerfing the Z directly. I don't know man, Snipe was pretty strong...like blade said some maps were just unwinnable because the position for terran was too strong-can snipe with ghosts and stim marine, and can use emp to make sure you don't get fungalled. Maybe it was a map issue but unless Zerg was way, way ahead it was near impossible to win. The main problem wasn't broodlords though, it was ultras, with EMP and snipe they were useless and could just be kited all day. Maybe a small snipe buff could be considered, but not like it was before I don't think. But I don't think thats the point, Zerg can get too far ahead early on and that's why Terran can't deal with their late game... On June 18 2012 19:31 Recognizable wrote: The problem with TvZ If left uncheked in the first 10 minutes, zerg will win in lategame. Risk free builds for Zerg against Terran all ins Great aggressive options for Zerg against Terran macro builds. Terran has no good aggressive options anymore and no way to pressure the zerg if going for a macro builds, whilst zerg can do both. I don't mind because I just switched to Zerg after playing Terran for 1.5 years. I got bored from Terran. yeah, maybe a small exaggeration but that's what i mean- the old pressure builds do not work anymore, especially against the muta-less style. Terran has so many units and options however, and I don't think everything has been explored yet. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
I don't know what Blizzard is thinking with the ability. It's far too high damage to also be a full duration root. Either make it a front loaded, undodgeable storm, or a somewhat longer duration no-damage root (perhaps lower energy cost for this). It should be an ability that prevents micro, not the highest DPS source in a lategame Zerg army. Casters in general should be situational, not a swiss army knife unit that's pivotal from minute 10 to minute 60. | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
I think this game that Major played vs some Zerg on Korea two days ago, going pure bio, sums up my thoughts on TvZ http://www.twitch.tv/sixjaxterran/b/321708081?t=15m40s | ||
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Kogan
Germany84 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:41 Jerubaal wrote: I'm trying to figure out why this is a featured blog. Is it because of the poster? Or because of general entertainment value? this ! usually i really enjoy the featured blogs but this just seems silly...i mean sure the recent buffs helped zergs quite a bit but i think ur statements are to extreme...especially saying the matchup isnt worth watching anymore...TvZ has always been my favorite matchup to watch and still is. maybe even more since the patch because u dont see terran win with just hellions anymore but the game goes into the very exciting lategame more often. | ||
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
On June 18 2012 17:26 yeint wrote: What, unlike the uber-creative Zerg compositions of Infestor+whatever? I don't understand the complaint about marine/tank/medivac. Those are the backbone units of Terran. Mech is untenable because of how slow it is. Any other army composition is silly, gimmicky nonsense. TvZ was by far the most liked matchup in competitive SC2 for the past year or so, once we regularly saw healthy midgames. Marine/tank/medivac makes for micro-intensive, drop-intensive play. The more marine-heavy a style, the more tempo-based the games are. "Creative" sounds like gimmicky semi-all ins with risky tech, or passively building up to some late game miracle composition. Mech is SO boring to watch it's not even funny. uber-creative Zerg compositions of Infestor+whatever What other lair tech units are effective vs Terran? Hydras? No. Roaches? No. Mutas? Not anymore. Corrupters? What?? Its like telling terran not to make tanks the core. It's their best unit. "Creative" sounds like gimmicky semi-all ins with risky tech, or passively building up to some late game miracle composition. So basically... no one should ever need to try new strategies. Good defense. Who wants a dynamic game anyways? Mech is SO boring to watch it's not even funny 1. This is your opinion. 2. If it works and wins the professionals money, who gives a damn about the spectators. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On June 18 2012 20:48 galtdunn wrote: What other lair tech units are effective vs Terran? Hydras? No. Roaches? No. Mutas? Not anymore. Corrupters? What?? Its like telling terran not to make tanks the core. It's their best unit. Mutas. Speed banes. So basically... no one should ever need to try new strategies. Good defense. Who wants a dynamic game anyways? Style is not synonymous with strategy. There are two viable styles of TvZ, bio armies (with tank support) or mech armies. Anything else, like sky terran, is untenable gimmicky nonsense. None of this is strategy. Strategy is timing, map control and information control. There is nothing "dynamic" or strategic about constant balance changes. Obviously strategies can and should (and do) change, but two years into the game is not the time to say "hey change the entire composition, marines bore me." 2. If it works and wins the professionals money, who gives a damn about the spectators. The only reason anyone gives them money is because spectators watch them play. (edit: fixed tags) | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
It just made light of a big gaping hole in the Terran race that we already knew existed since BETA. | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On June 18 2012 18:47 RemarK wrote: All I know is TvZ is no longer enjoyable for me to watch at all. Used to be a great, dynamic, back and forth matchup, but now it seems as if Terrans are just frequently getting crushed. I don't think Terrans have suddenly gotten worse or that Zergs have suddenly gotten better either - Blizzard just nerfed one of the most standard openers out of existence and now Zerg are able to hold off almost every Terran all-in with 6 Queen builds. If you are waiting till Zerg has 6 Queens then you are waiting too long. Think about openers that can hit earlier like gas before rax into reactor hellion which makes hellions arrive to z base before queens even pop out. Also OP says that bunker rushes are harder to do but not impossible, maybe that's what we should see more in the metagame shift into macro games. I don't believe it will ever be easy for zerg to defend against Maka rax into multiple scvs marine bunkers rush. Not many terrans think about putting first bunkers outside of vision range to cover next bunkers that are closer to the hatch in the nat. On June 18 2012 20:12 yeint wrote: I honestly think fungal is far, far too strong. I don't for a minute think they will or even should make such a drastic change at this point, but definitely in HotS. I don't know what Blizzard is thinking with the ability. It's far too high damage to also be a full duration root. Either make it a front loaded, undodgeable storm, or a somewhat longer duration no-damage root (perhaps lower energy cost for this). It should be an ability that prevents micro, not the highest DPS source in a lategame Zerg army. Casters in general should be situational, not a swiss army knife unit that's pivotal from minute 10 to minute 60. Don't you have Ghosts to deal with Infestors? With energy upgrade 2 Ghosts can snipe 3 Infestors or cloak and kill many more or EMP and also make many more clumped Infestors useless. And that can be done just with 75 starter energy, think about not letting Ghosts to die and refill with energy for more snipes and EMPs. I can't imagine making the game boring by changing it into a blob fest with no enjoyable spells to watch. Also consider that SC2 has already weaker spells than BW. | ||
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Narw
Poland884 Posts
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On June 18 2012 21:30 sluggaslamoo wrote: Nothing wrong with the buffs. It just made light of a big gaping hole in the Terran race that we already knew existed since BETA. What hole are you talking about? Terran's strength always was in early-mid game aggressive builds. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Stephano's build is easy and optomized, from what I heard. Now Terran just needs an optomized equivilent to get them into the late game on even footing. Well, with heart of the swarm coming I suppose it doesn't matter for much longer. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:14 LuckyFool wrote: I'm scared about the "finding something new" path because if anything gets found new that helps SO much to change or skew balance back in terran favor it gets nerfed. This is what happens when you try to satisfy a bunch of whiners playing a game. | ||
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Vega62a
946 Posts
But here's the deal - I'd bet ten to one that for almost all of the Terrans posting in this thread (deference to Jinro and LuckyFool, the pro players) if you sit down and stare at a frustrating loss that makes you say "FDSDDSALJKGL ZERG OP", you'll find that your army was out of position when you lost it, you could have split your marines better, set up your tanks sooner, cleared the creep more aggressively, handled your drops better. Terrans usually lose when they mishandle their army for a few seconds. That's incredibly frustrating, I get that - but the MU isn't a joke. As I type this I'm watching Keen vs Stephano, and I wonder how anybody could say it is. Edit: (DH Spoiler) + Show Spoiler + Nerchio vs BratOK game 3 - A really great example of how Terran can come back from a defecit and from zerg being on the scary infestor/bl combo by constantly dropping and saccing small groups of marines to whittle down zerg's economy. It's not a certain way to win, and I'm pretty sure Nerchio's going to win, but I don't know how someone could call this game a joke. | ||
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