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Monster - Page 2

Blogs > Pholon
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Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
May 20 2012 11:20 GMT
#21
It's all about the fangirl transition
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Aelonius
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands432 Posts
May 20 2012 11:22 GMT
#22
I think this format is good as it allows you to have a bridge between the two games. It's definatly better than saying "Well.. ok... we quit BW right now. Go go SC2". First off you'd lose a lot of the community and secondly, what's better than seeing those champions you revere in BW, grow to the same level in SC2? Just give it time =)

''The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.''—Ronald Reagan
fold
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia665 Posts
May 20 2012 11:28 GMT
#23
On May 20 2012 20:22 Aelonius wrote:
I think this format is good as it allows you to have a bridge between the two games. It's definatly better than saying "Well.. ok... we quit BW right now. Go go SC2". First off you'd lose a lot of the community and secondly, what's better than seeing those champions you revere in BW, grow to the same level in SC2? Just give it time =)


Seeing those champions we revere in BW, continue to grow in BW.
t.t
Petit_Filou
Profile Joined November 2011
Australia6 Posts
May 20 2012 12:17 GMT
#24
I just can't stand in front of my screen when I see a BW game. I know graphics are not everything but come on... We are in 2012.
dreamseller
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Australia914 Posts
May 20 2012 15:13 GMT
#25
off topic, but the full paragraph for the frankenstein quote:

"I am thy creature, and I will be even mild and docile to my natural lord and king, if thou wilt also perform thy part, the which thou owest me. Oh, Frankenstein, be not equitable to every other, and trample upon me alone, to whom thy justice, and even thy clemency and affection, is most due. Remember, that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam; but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed. Everywhere I see bliss, from which I alone am irrevocably excluded. I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend. Make me happy, and I shall again be virtuous."


Basically the monster saying that Dr. Frankenstein was the cause of the monster becoming a fiend. The monster was abandoned by Dr. Frankenstein. He desired a mate at this stage, and happiness.
PGtour admin
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10305 Posts
May 20 2012 16:15 GMT
#26
On May 20 2012 21:17 Petit_Filou wrote:
I just can't stand in front of my screen when I see a BW game. I know graphics are not everything but come on... We are in 2012.

I'm guessing this means you don't enjoy Family Guy, South Park, or any animes? Come on, it's 2012 yo shit should be BOOM WOW EXPLOSIONS IN 3D AND SHIET, essentials for entertainment above and beyond such laughable qualities such as depth, history, and skill.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-20 19:22:57
May 20 2012 19:22 GMT
#27
I actually think the format is really amazing for everyone except the players and the brood war fans who really hate sc2.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
May 20 2012 19:41 GMT
#28
On May 21 2012 04:22 Pokebunny wrote:
I actually think the format is really amazing for everyone except the players and the brood war fans who really hate sc2.

That and people who like to watch good games (may or may not be included above).
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
May 20 2012 19:52 GMT
#29
On May 21 2012 00:13 dreamseller wrote:
off topic, but the full paragraph for the frankenstein quote:

Show nested quote +
"I am thy creature, and I will be even mild and docile to my natural lord and king, if thou wilt also perform thy part, the which thou owest me. Oh, Frankenstein, be not equitable to every other, and trample upon me alone, to whom thy justice, and even thy clemency and affection, is most due. Remember, that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam; but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed. Everywhere I see bliss, from which I alone am irrevocably excluded. I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend. Make me happy, and I shall again be virtuous."


Basically the monster saying that Dr. Frankenstein was the cause of the monster becoming a fiend. The monster was abandoned by Dr. Frankenstein. He desired a mate at this stage, and happiness.

Ya, for anyone who actually read Frankenstein it's not a great comparison. The book makes you feel a lot of sympathy for the monster, it's not just an ugly horrible thing, but has themes of inner beauty etc. which the doctor never brings himself to see.

But for the general public, ya it's a good way to sum up how gross this was. Just a mass of dead body parts sown together in living animation. Amateurs devoted to a single game play better than this, it is just too hard for pros to switch between games and show something worth watching.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Deleted User 255289
Profile Joined March 2012
281 Posts
May 20 2012 20:02 GMT
#30
Wtf is this random story and then some rambling about kespa format and then some random story
Zerg OP | CreansRNub | k-Poop | Zerg OP | Sea lions | \\m//
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
May 20 2012 23:54 GMT
#31
Your references to Frankenstein and Paradise Lost made this the best thread ever.
Or would have if it wasn't already the best ever because it had done the necessary thing of pointing out the thought process that went into this SPL which seems just completely ass backwards. Ah well, I'll just have to hope it'll be good despite my fears.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
fold
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia665 Posts
May 21 2012 01:42 GMT
#32
On May 21 2012 04:22 Pokebunny wrote:
I actually think the format is really amazing for everyone except the players and the brood war fans who really hate sc2.

Why do you think that, is it because you get even more SC2 to watch? There's already many many SC2 tournaments that you can watch at any time of the day. Broodwar fans only have Proleague, OSL and the few foreigner tournaments. All this does is take away half the number of games that we could've got and with the alternating game rule, at most we only get to see 7 appearances each of our favourite players during the regular season. How is that anywhere enough to see Mini's, Shy's and Dear's growth as rising rookie protosses?

It's also not that I hate SC2, I just don't care for it. Yesterday's matches was hard to see because I kept thinking damn this would be an epic match if only they had played BW. (By.sun vs Jaedong or Flash vs Effort).
t.t
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
May 21 2012 03:04 GMT
#33
the things is that its not an issue of everything being worse, yes the SCII i saw in the opening day wasn't the best, heck the first game with Terminator/n.Die.Sang was one of the saddest excuses of an archon rush I've seen since beta, but I liked the format, it makes it more important for pros to CHOOSE 1 GAME and not play both.
User was warned for too many mimes.
BrosephBrostar
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States445 Posts
May 21 2012 06:18 GMT
#34
On May 20 2012 04:39 hypercube wrote:
There's this weird human need to question the logic of a decision when you disagree with its goal. Kespa's decision is well-thought out. They want the maximum number of Korean BW fans to start watching SC2. That's their only goal. They're not dumb just want something very different than you do.


Please, someone, anyone, explain to me why they want this. It's obvious that it's what they're going for, but I don't understand why. Everyone says it's for the money. Of course it's always about money. What money? Where do they think it's going to come from? Who is going to pay Jaedong to play SC2 that wouldn't do it for BW? Just one example would help me understand.
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1083 Posts
May 21 2012 07:52 GMT
#35
On May 21 2012 15:18 BrosephBrostar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2012 04:39 hypercube wrote:
There's this weird human need to question the logic of a decision when you disagree with its goal. Kespa's decision is well-thought out. They want the maximum number of Korean BW fans to start watching SC2. That's their only goal. They're not dumb just want something very different than you do.


Please, someone, anyone, explain to me why they want this. It's obvious that it's what they're going for, but I don't understand why. Everyone says it's for the money. Of course it's always about money. What money? Where do they think it's going to come from? Who is going to pay Jaedong to play SC2 that wouldn't do it for BW? Just one example would help me understand.

Kespa never legally had the right to broadcast SCBW. Anytime Blizzard would be willing to alienate a whole lot of fanboys/girls and push the lawsuit to the end, they could have shut Kespa down. Blizzard probably didn't want to do it, but I'm sure they were using that power to pressure Kespa into changing over. Kespa had the matchfixing scandal, some lawsuits, and the rise of SC2 and LoL. They had a significantly declining fanbase and sponsors were dropping out while they were still contractually obligated to pay out some big salaries to players. They're down to only 8 teams and one of them can't even get a sponsor. Does that sound like a good position to be in?

Meanwhile, LG recently picked up sponsorship of IM (a SC2 team) rather than Team 8. That's huge. That's good money. The foreigner scene is also willing to pay out some big money for SC2 (see MLG's PPV, GOMTVs foreign subscriptions, and even the foreign teams poaching Korean players) while SCBW was never big in the foreigner scene. The SC2 scene will also likely receive another big boost of fans when HotS comes out... especially if Blizzard is able to better direct casual players to the competitive scene than they did on SC2 release (they've gotten better at it since then). Some SC2 related businesses are starting to turn a profit while the viewerbase is likely to grow massively with HotS and the Pro League adoption of SC2.

From an asset standpoint, SCBW is left with star power and a fading fanbase, but little else. How much longer could they really keep their star power in SCBW? If you were a SCBW pro and you saw ZergBong, MVP, and the suicide toss making more than $200k each in tournament earnings (+potentially nice salaries with LG sponsoring the first two and SK sponsoring the last one), wouldn't you strongly consider switching over? They may like SCBW more than SC2, but this is their profession.

The writing was on the wall for the players/league and they could either ride out SCBW to the bitter end and be left with nothing, or Kespa can do the best it can for its players and the league. Maybe you're right and nobody will pay to watch Jaedong play SC2, but their current situation is crap and they needed to make a move. So now they're in a transitional phase of getting their assets (their star power and fanbase) into something new. They're getting their players into the game in time for HotS where the metagame will be reset. Meanwhile, they aren't totally switching over because they could easily alienate their players and their fans. Don't tell me it wasn't painful seeing some no-name playing in the ace match instead of Flash.

Also, they'd currently be offering an inferior product to GSL/GSTL until their players catch up. This season, players will almost undoubtedly practice a lot more SC2 than SCBW and will hopefully start to be competitive with the GSL players by next season. Combine their actual abilities + star power + production value + established league, and they've got a very good chance of being successful into the future.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
BrosephBrostar
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States445 Posts
May 21 2012 08:20 GMT
#36
On May 21 2012 16:52 RenSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2012 15:18 BrosephBrostar wrote:
On May 20 2012 04:39 hypercube wrote:
There's this weird human need to question the logic of a decision when you disagree with its goal. Kespa's decision is well-thought out. They want the maximum number of Korean BW fans to start watching SC2. That's their only goal. They're not dumb just want something very different than you do.


Please, someone, anyone, explain to me why they want this. It's obvious that it's what they're going for, but I don't understand why. Everyone says it's for the money. Of course it's always about money. What money? Where do they think it's going to come from? Who is going to pay Jaedong to play SC2 that wouldn't do it for BW? Just one example would help me understand.

Kespa never legally had the right to broadcast SCBW. Anytime Blizzard would be willing to alienate a whole lot of fanboys/girls and push the lawsuit to the end, they could have shut Kespa down. Blizzard probably didn't want to do it, but I'm sure they were using that power to pressure Kespa into changing over. Kespa had the matchfixing scandal, some lawsuits, and the rise of SC2 and LoL. They had a significantly declining fanbase and sponsors were dropping out while they were still contractually obligated to pay out some big salaries to players. They're down to only 8 teams and one of them can't even get a sponsor. Does that sound like a good position to be in?

Meanwhile, LG recently picked up sponsorship of IM (a SC2 team) rather than Team 8. That's huge. That's good money. The foreigner scene is also willing to pay out some big money for SC2 (see MLG's PPV, GOMTVs foreign subscriptions, and even the foreign teams poaching Korean players) while SCBW was never big in the foreigner scene. The SC2 scene will also likely receive another big boost of fans when HotS comes out... especially if Blizzard is able to better direct casual players to the competitive scene than they did on SC2 release (they've gotten better at it since then). Some SC2 related businesses are starting to turn a profit while the viewerbase is likely to grow massively with HotS and the Pro League adoption of SC2.

From an asset standpoint, SCBW is left with star power and a fading fanbase, but little else. How much longer could they really keep their star power in SCBW? If you were a SCBW pro and you saw ZergBong, MVP, and the suicide toss making more than $200k each in tournament earnings (+potentially nice salaries with LG sponsoring the first two and SK sponsoring the last one), wouldn't you strongly consider switching over? They may like SCBW more than SC2, but this is their profession.

The writing was on the wall for the players/league and they could either ride out SCBW to the bitter end and be left with nothing, or Kespa can do the best it can for its players and the league. Maybe you're right and nobody will pay to watch Jaedong play SC2, but their current situation is crap and they needed to make a move. So now they're in a transitional phase of getting their assets (their star power and fanbase) into something new. They're getting their players into the game in time for HotS where the metagame will be reset. Meanwhile, they aren't totally switching over because they could easily alienate their players and their fans. Don't tell me it wasn't painful seeing some no-name playing in the ace match instead of Flash.

Also, they'd currently be offering an inferior product to GSL/GSTL until their players catch up. This season, players will almost undoubtedly practice a lot more SC2 than SCBW and will hopefully start to be competitive with the GSL players by next season. Combine their actual abilities + star power + production value + established league, and they've got a very good chance of being successful into the future.


Of course the current situation isn't very good, but I still don't see how switching to SC2 is going to make it any better. LG is a good sponsor, but just how much are they spending on the team? The fact that it was announced as a partnership rather than outright buying the team makes me think it's not a whole lot. As far as I know the majority of sc2 players don't even get paid. I feel like sc2 fans vastly overestimate how much their scene is worth, but I see no reason for kespa to make the same mistake. If sc2 was being sponsored by American Airlines or Nike or something I could see why they would want in on it, but that's pretty far from reality.
Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
May 21 2012 09:08 GMT
#37
I can't see how this could possibly be good for BW. There will be viewers who have only watched SC2? So what? Even if the new spectators grow to love the game,the next proleague is SC2 only. What's even worse (from a "last hurrah" perspective) is that the BW games aren't as good as they could be. Of course they would suffer from significantly less practice. What's the point? Leeching off of BW's success and trying to pull some of the fans over? Sadly, that seems to be the case. If you want to sell SC2, then sell SC2 with the best of what these pros have to offer. Make them play SC2 full time, or quit. It's just painful watching these BW pros play SC2 badly *and* play worse than they ever have in BW. Let us have some good memories of the wonderful BW games of the past, and not these handicapped matches.
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
TehRei
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden261 Posts
May 21 2012 15:03 GMT
#38
I don't hate SC2 or anything, I actually played it for over a year -- that's a lot more time than I usually spend on any one game. But this format is just... terrible to me. If a switch to SC2 is inevitable, then switch to SC2. Of course that wouldn't make me happy at all, but it would still be preferable to this. Not commiting to one game can't possibly "help rekindle interest in BW" or "help the Korean SC2 scene grow" (as some people have said) more than if they'd just pick one and let the players focus on that.

If Korean BW truly is dying, please KeSPA, don't put it on life-support like this. Seeing proleague-BW live on like this hurts me so much more than if they'd just pull the plug and have it over with
wassbix
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada499 Posts
May 22 2012 12:22 GMT
#39
On May 21 2012 04:22 Pokebunny wrote:
I actually think the format is really amazing for everyone except the players and the brood war fans who really hate sc2.


I don't see how a format that puts undue stress on the players and lowers the quality of both games is good for most involved parties.

As for myself, I just want high quality BW games like the finals sigh..
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-22 16:58:35
May 22 2012 16:54 GMT
#40
I'll start off by saying I believe you're trolling - but if not, regard my comments as a rebuttal to yours.

# 1 Professional sportsmen are perfectly able to pick up a new sport and be good at it. For example, Michael Jordan, having quit basketball, was instantly picked up by a professional baseball team, as evidenced by the movie Space Jam. Playing two games at the same time will only add to their prowess.


I like how you say "Professional sportsmen" and then pick someone who is at the top echelon of professional sportsmen. As someone who has worked beside a man who's worked as a strength and conditioning coach for professional teams and works with professional athletes, this statement is mostly false. They cannot just move and pick up another sport and be good at it. Jordan HAD played baseball before, so he wasn't new at it, but the reason he got picked up by the White Sox was BECAUSE THE BULLS OWNER OWNED THE WHITE SOX.

So, to make this clear.. most professionals can't do this.. Jordan failed at it.

# 2 To further ESPORTS we need to ensure the highest level of competition. Splitting your focus onto as many things as possible will help this. For instance, players like Incontrol, Painuser, and Destiny who use their time to also appear on talk shows, act as casters, play LoL, flip tables, and lift heavy weights, are also extremely successful at StarCraft 2. Furthermore, it is likely that dividing your practise time between the two games will only improve your play, as both skills complement one another.


Dividing your time towards something that isn't your profession (when you're not a "beginner") will make you worse. The Principle of Specificity would state that if you want to get better at something, you do that something. Anything that takes away from that would be, for the most part, detrimental to your success. You may also want to define "extremely successful", as that's pretty subjective (for example, someone who is able to 10-0 all their friends may be looked on as extremely successful within their group).

I know the rest is pretty much preaching to the choir (point 3, 4 etc..)

However, every coach and player that has been interviewed has wished they'd just go one way or the other. They know they won't be able to show the "best" kind of games (though some may still be pretty good) but they have to do what the sponsors/kespa wants. Although in reading the recent Bisu/Jaedong interview, they seemed to be getting somewhat bored (with BW) and are looking for a new challenge in SC2.

Edited: 5/5
Luck makes talent look like genius.
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