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Netherlands6142 Posts
Did I request thee, Maker, from my clay
To mould me man? Did I solicit thee
From darkness to promote me? ---
--- Paradise Lost
I imagined a 19th century mansion in the dark of night. As clouds gathered above the small town, I zoomed in on the derelict, shady building. Inside, Dr. Kespastein paced back and forth across his laboratory, rummaging through papers on his desk, and checking several dials on the wall before returning to the big table in the centre of the room. The rain began to patter dismally against the panes by the flicker of an almost burnt-out candle.
In the shimmering light, I saw the pale organiser of unhallowed arts kneel beside the league he had put together. I saw the hideous phantasm of the hybrid proleague format, and then, on the working of some powerful engine, show signs of life, and stir with an uneasy, half-bw half-sc2 motion.
One ought to think that Kespa has some kind of thought process behind introducing this new Proleague format. Rather than the mad scientist from the movies, what we're all hoping for is a careful deliberation with reasons forwarded in support of their decision. The more I think about it though, the more I'm beginning to suspect they must look something like this:
# 1 Professional sportsmen are perfectly able to pick up a new sport and be good at it. For example, Michael Jordan, having quit basketball, was instantly picked up by a professional baseball team, as evidenced by the movie Space Jam. Playing two games at the same time will only add to their prowess.
# 2 To further ESPORTS we need to ensure the highest level of competition. Splitting your focus onto as many things as possible will help this. For instance, players like Incontrol, Painuser, and Destiny who use their time to also appear on talk shows, act as casters, play LoL, flip tables, and lift heavy weights, are also extremely successful at StarCraft 2. Furthermore, it is likely that dividing your practise time between the two games will only improve your play, as both skills complement one another.
# 3 As this season of Proleague runs side-by-side with what could be the last, and therefore most emotionally loaded, OSL, we are pretty much doing them a favour by taking away practice time from its players. As illustrated by points #1 and #2 we are basically guaranteeing this to be the best OSL ever.
# 4 The fans will love this format; the core of the BW fanbase will be happy to hear that there is a sequel to their favorite game (it's still pretty new, I'm sure they just haven't received the memo yet). On the other hand, SC2 fans who have been looking forward to seeing Brood War's heroes in action, will be overjoyed that we are making sure their full SC2 potential will come out in this dual format where we're not allowing them to fully dedicate their time to the new game.
# 5 The community as a whole will benefit. It has been shown time and time again that people from the two scenes get along with one another perfectly fine. I imagine the Teamliquid moderation staff will be quite jubilant about the decrease in mod reports as the LR threads for this proleague will usher in a new era of peaceful, mutual tolerance.[/code]
I ought to be thy Adam; but I am rather the fallen angel ---
--- Frankenstein
Back in the lab I looked at the tournament's format. Its complexion hideous and its stature gigantic. It breathed hard and a convulsive motion agitated its limbs. Its dull, yellow eyes filled with despair and questions - "What did this mean? Who was I? What was I? Whence did I come? What was my destination?" These questions continually recurred, but I was unable to solve them. In the end, it boils down to an unfortunate circumstance of money and politics. From a competitive point of view, the one aspect that motivates us all to look at this ESPORT in awe, this new proleague seems like the offspring of some depraved megalomania. Rather than giving Broodwar, if its demise is so painfully inevitable, the peace it deserves, Dr. Kespastein tries to wrench from it one last burst of life.
Perhaps I'm speaking too soon. I'm quite possibly incriminating Kespa way too much, not even hinting at the amounts of coercion that have gone into this from the directions of Blizzard, Activision, sponsors etc, with Kespa trying to salvage what it can. The matchfixing, lawsuits, and the ever increasing popularity of League of Legends have struck blow after blow at Brood War, leaving Kespa in a tough spot trying to find sponsors for proleague and Team 8. Conversely, a complete transition would force the players in the OSL to decide between Brood War and Starcraft 2 which would, consequently, result in the worst quality Starleague in many years. Kespa ends up being trapped in a situation in which there is no right move.
And who knows, maybe the new proleague does deserve the benefit of the doubt after all. In Mary Shelley's book, the Monster reprimands me: "I have good dispositions; my life has been hitherto harmless and in some degree beneficial; but a fatal prejudice clouds their eyes, and where they ought to see a feeling and kind friend, they behold only a detestable monster."
Big thanks to SirJolt and Plexa for editing and Shiro for the banner!
 
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I think the transition is going to be painful. I hope sponsor's and tournament organizers just turn off their emails for a few weeks. I think the internet is going to be painful...and I don't even have another word at this point. between the trolling and the complaining and the "i told you so" about one thing or another I think I'm just going to practice and avoid all form of sc2 media and interaction for a little while.
I think the live events are going to be fucking awesome.
I have several apprehensions about other things, but making it through the transition is going to be okay...if rough. that said i do feel genuinely sorry and terrible for the broodwar fans that don't want their scene to die.
My related quote!
“The lotus is the most beautiful flower, whose petals open one by one. But it will only grow in the mud. In order to grow and gain wisdom, first you must have the mud-" Goldie Hawn
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There's this weird human need to question the logic of a decision when you disagree with its goal. Kespa's decision is well-thought out. They want the maximum number of Korean BW fans to start watching SC2. That's their only goal. They're not dumb just want something very different than you do.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Agreed. This is worse for both scenes, no one benefits from a half and half league. The problem is, what alternative do they have? They're gonna transition eventually, and as you said, a strait SC2 league would kill OSL. On the otherhand, it doesn't sound like a BW league is at all viable.
It's a tough for hardcore BW fans, I feel really sorry for you guys.
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On May 20 2012 04:50 MCDayC wrote:
Agreed. This is worse for both scenes, no one benefits from a half and half league. The problem is, what alternative do they have? They're gonna transition eventually, and as you said, a strait SC2 league would kill OSL. On the otherhand, it doesn't sound like a BW league is at all viable.
It's a tough for hardcore BW fans, I feel really sorry for you guys.
I disagree. I have never stayed up to watch a Starleague, Proleague, or any other Brood War tournament before. I will, most assuredly, be watching Proleague this season. It's incredibly exciting to be able to see both games played side-by-side in almost equal measure. This Proleauge seems to be calling for a harmony between the two games-- rather than playing BW in spite of SC2 (or visa versa), it's being played along with SC2. Insofar as Proleague represents a 'last hurrah' for Brood War, what better way to do it than to draw in crowds of StarCraft II fans to watch it. I think seeing a slew of epic BW games will help SC2 fans who never bothered with the game before to appreciate everything that is StarCraft: Brood War; it will show how entertaining and tense the games can be, how much the community cares about it, and it will showcase the massive impact it has had on competitive gaming.
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I have my own concerns as well, but it's best to give it a chance. Wait and see, and maybe you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Canada8029 Posts
On May 20 2012 07:01 mbr2321 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 04:50 MCDayC wrote:
Agreed. This is worse for both scenes, no one benefits from a half and half league. The problem is, what alternative do they have? They're gonna transition eventually, and as you said, a strait SC2 league would kill OSL. On the otherhand, it doesn't sound like a BW league is at all viable.
It's a tough for hardcore BW fans, I feel really sorry for you guys. I disagree. I have never stayed up to watch a Starleague, Proleague, or any other Brood War tournament before. I will, most assuredly, be watching Proleague this season. It's incredibly exciting to be able to see both games played side-by-side in almost equal measure. This Proleauge seems to be calling for a harmony between the two games-- rather than playing BW in spite of SC2 (or visa versa), it's being played along with SC2. Insofar as Proleague represents a 'last hurrah' for Brood War, what better way to do it than to draw in crowds of StarCraft II fans to watch it. I think seeing a slew of epic BW games will help SC2 fans who never bothered with the game before to appreciate everything that is StarCraft: Brood War; it will show how entertaining and tense the games can be, how much the community cares about it, and it will showcase the massive impact it has had on competitive gaming.
Rather than a last hurrah, it's more like we're bearing witness to the gruesome death throes of BW. Now that it's clear that the switch is imminent, what purpose is there for teams to practice BW any longer? Every minute spent playing BW is a minute they could have spent acclimatizing to SC2. Even the Proleague format has been altered such that a team's performance in SC2 matters more.
I hope the few remaining games of BW we get will be good, but I'm not terribly optimistic about that. I guess we'll see tonight.
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Excellent. 5 stars. Can't wait to see how it ends up working out this afternoon o.O
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I see the BW/SC2 league as a positive for both games. It may even be what the BW scene needs to get a bit of a revive. Think about it, a rapid influx of SC2 viewers are now viewing BW games - sponsors will love the numbers and think BW is worth investing in more.
A positive for the SC2 scene is, of course, another tournament to watch. Also, it may - finally - unite the two communities. No more bickering about which game is superior. Although, there will always be the one guy who will always argue it.
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The anti pro-league hype thread I guess. 
I'm torn about how I feel about it. I'm excited to see how all our greats progress in SC2...but at the same time am even more saddened by the fact that BW as a professional Korean esports is almost certainly in it's final hours.
I don't particularly care for the format though. Something about 2 Bo3's is just...meh.
To be honest one of the worst parts about all of this is that SC2 fans tuning in to BW for the first time will likely be seeing games of far lower quality than in the past and may not get the chance to experience the true awesomeness that is BW, and those of us that are BW vets may be left with mediocre games as our most recent final memories of BW.
Inspite of that I'm still fairly excited for tonight...very curious to see where the SC2 skill seems to be at and how everyone is doing handling both games at once.
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At a guitar-playing competition the musicians are additionally forced to excel in Guitar Hero in order to have a chance at winning.
Seems to advance true art, doesn't it?
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Ah, the H.P. Lovecraft Proleague, surely nothing bad is gonna happen if we do things this way...
This is the first time I'm not excited at the start of a new season 
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They sure seem to have done a good job coming up with a format that nobody will be happy with. I'm not sure I blame them, they aren't entirely to fault for the position they are in... but it seems like this won't accomplish much but alienate more fans at a time when the fanbase is already dwindling.
I hope you guys like LoL.
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appear on talk shows, act as casters, play LoL, flip tables, and lift heavy weights,
AHAHAHAHAHA very subtle Pholon!
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While I wholeheartedly agree with every one of your arguments from the viewer POV (I was going to write a rant myself, but didn't have the time), it's easy to see Kespa's POV:
Okay, we need some of that SC2 sponsorship money...but we can't afford to lose all our BW fans right away.
Ta-da! This Hybrid Abomination!
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On May 20 2012 11:01 Ghardo wrote:
At a guitar-playing competition the musicians are additionally forced to excel in Guitar Hero in order to have a chance at winning.
Seems to advance true art, doesn't it?
All professional soccer players must alternate between matches of soccer and foosball. Ace mathes are naturally in foosball because the game is newer, more accessible, and less physically demanding with more flashy shit. OOOH DID YOU SEE THAT GUY SPIN THAT HANDLE KAPOW BAZONK 1440 HD INTEL CENTRINO DUO CORE N SHIT
-____-
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This is the best possible decision in the worst possible scenario. The transition was going to be painful no matter what happened. Staying with BW meant that there would be no transition. You said yourself that suddenly switching to SC2 would be equally terrible.
This is less of a monster and more of a rock+hard place scenario.
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Ultimately this might the best solution. They're coaxing BW fans to see some SC2 and making sure that the players are allowed to transition without suddenly dropping the thing that the BW fans are interested in.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On May 20 2012 11:06 Kittan wrote:Ah, the H.P. Lovecraft Proleague, surely nothing bad is gonna happen if we do things this way... This is the first time I'm not excited at the start of a new season
wtf it's Milton and Shelley >_>
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Sigh this day left me feeling completely empty. I guess part of me is sad to see heroes I regarded to be untouchable appear so human in a different game.
I wish I could say I won't come back to watch more PL, but I know I'll come back crawling at the gates because there's so little BW content to go around these days. I might agree that this is the best solution for transitioning between the two games, but that doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable in its current format.
OSL will mend some of my hurt, I hope. The last OSL. This feels like being broken up with, yet having a few weeks of golden days left before the inevitable end. Boy am I going to be drunk the night after the end.
Sad nerd tears from me.
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It's all about the fangirl transition
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I think this format is good as it allows you to have a bridge between the two games. It's definatly better than saying "Well.. ok... we quit BW right now. Go go SC2". First off you'd lose a lot of the community and secondly, what's better than seeing those champions you revere in BW, grow to the same level in SC2? Just give it time =)
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On May 20 2012 20:22 Aelonius wrote:
I think this format is good as it allows you to have a bridge between the two games. It's definatly better than saying "Well.. ok... we quit BW right now. Go go SC2". First off you'd lose a lot of the community and secondly, what's better than seeing those champions you revere in BW, grow to the same level in SC2? Just give it time =)
Seeing those champions we revere in BW, continue to grow in BW.
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I just can't stand in front of my screen when I see a BW game. I know graphics are not everything but come on... We are in 2012.
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off topic, but the full paragraph for the frankenstein quote:
"I am thy creature, and I will be even mild and docile to my natural lord and king, if thou wilt also perform thy part, the which thou owest me. Oh, Frankenstein, be not equitable to every other, and trample upon me alone, to whom thy justice, and even thy clemency and affection, is most due. Remember, that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam; but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed. Everywhere I see bliss, from which I alone am irrevocably excluded. I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend. Make me happy, and I shall again be virtuous."
Basically the monster saying that Dr. Frankenstein was the cause of the monster becoming a fiend. The monster was abandoned by Dr. Frankenstein. He desired a mate at this stage, and happiness.
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On May 20 2012 21:17 Petit_Filou wrote:
I just can't stand in front of my screen when I see a BW game. I know graphics are not everything but come on... We are in 2012.
I'm guessing this means you don't enjoy Family Guy, South Park, or any animes? Come on, it's 2012 yo shit should be BOOM WOW EXPLOSIONS IN 3D AND SHIET, essentials for entertainment above and beyond such laughable qualities such as depth, history, and skill.
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I actually think the format is really amazing for everyone except the players and the brood war fans who really hate sc2.
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On May 21 2012 04:22 Pokebunny wrote:
I actually think the format is really amazing for everyone except the players and the brood war fans who really hate sc2.
That and people who like to watch good games (may or may not be included above).
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On May 21 2012 00:13 dreamseller wrote:off topic, but the full paragraph for the frankenstein quote: Show nested quote +"I am thy creature, and I will be even mild and docile to my natural lord and king, if thou wilt also perform thy part, the which thou owest me. Oh, Frankenstein, be not equitable to every other, and trample upon me alone, to whom thy justice, and even thy clemency and affection, is most due. Remember, that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam; but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed. Everywhere I see bliss, from which I alone am irrevocably excluded. I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend. Make me happy, and I shall again be virtuous." Basically the monster saying that Dr. Frankenstein was the cause of the monster becoming a fiend. The monster was abandoned by Dr. Frankenstein. He desired a mate at this stage, and happiness.
Ya, for anyone who actually read Frankenstein it's not a great comparison. The book makes you feel a lot of sympathy for the monster, it's not just an ugly horrible thing, but has themes of inner beauty etc. which the doctor never brings himself to see.
But for the general public, ya it's a good way to sum up how gross this was. Just a mass of dead body parts sown together in living animation. Amateurs devoted to a single game play better than this, it is just too hard for pros to switch between games and show something worth watching.
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Wtf is this random story and then some rambling about kespa format and then some random story
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Your references to Frankenstein and Paradise Lost made this the best thread ever.
Or would have if it wasn't already the best ever because it had done the necessary thing of pointing out the thought process that went into this SPL which seems just completely ass backwards. Ah well, I'll just have to hope it'll be good despite my fears.
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On May 21 2012 04:22 Pokebunny wrote:
I actually think the format is really amazing for everyone except the players and the brood war fans who really hate sc2.
Why do you think that, is it because you get even more SC2 to watch? There's already many many SC2 tournaments that you can watch at any time of the day. Broodwar fans only have Proleague, OSL and the few foreigner tournaments. All this does is take away half the number of games that we could've got and with the alternating game rule, at most we only get to see 7 appearances each of our favourite players during the regular season. How is that anywhere enough to see Mini's, Shy's and Dear's growth as rising rookie protosses?
It's also not that I hate SC2, I just don't care for it. Yesterday's matches was hard to see because I kept thinking damn this would be an epic match if only they had played BW. (By.sun vs Jaedong or Flash vs Effort).
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the things is that its not an issue of everything being worse, yes the SCII i saw in the opening day wasn't the best, heck the first game with Terminator/n.Die.Sang was one of the saddest excuses of an archon rush I've seen since beta, but I liked the format, it makes it more important for pros to CHOOSE 1 GAME and not play both.
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On May 20 2012 04:39 hypercube wrote:
There's this weird human need to question the logic of a decision when you disagree with its goal. Kespa's decision is well-thought out. They want the maximum number of Korean BW fans to start watching SC2. That's their only goal. They're not dumb just want something very different than you do.
Please, someone, anyone, explain to me why they want this. It's obvious that it's what they're going for, but I don't understand why. Everyone says it's for the money. Of course it's always about money. What money? Where do they think it's going to come from? Who is going to pay Jaedong to play SC2 that wouldn't do it for BW? Just one example would help me understand.
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On May 21 2012 15:18 BrosephBrostar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 04:39 hypercube wrote:
There's this weird human need to question the logic of a decision when you disagree with its goal. Kespa's decision is well-thought out. They want the maximum number of Korean BW fans to start watching SC2. That's their only goal. They're not dumb just want something very different than you do. Please, someone, anyone, explain to me why they want this. It's obvious that it's what they're going for, but I don't understand why. Everyone says it's for the money. Of course it's always about money. What money? Where do they think it's going to come from? Who is going to pay Jaedong to play SC2 that wouldn't do it for BW? Just one example would help me understand.
Kespa never legally had the right to broadcast SCBW. Anytime Blizzard would be willing to alienate a whole lot of fanboys/girls and push the lawsuit to the end, they could have shut Kespa down. Blizzard probably didn't want to do it, but I'm sure they were using that power to pressure Kespa into changing over. Kespa had the matchfixing scandal, some lawsuits, and the rise of SC2 and LoL. They had a significantly declining fanbase and sponsors were dropping out while they were still contractually obligated to pay out some big salaries to players. They're down to only 8 teams and one of them can't even get a sponsor. Does that sound like a good position to be in?
Meanwhile, LG recently picked up sponsorship of IM (a SC2 team) rather than Team 8. That's huge. That's good money. The foreigner scene is also willing to pay out some big money for SC2 (see MLG's PPV, GOMTVs foreign subscriptions, and even the foreign teams poaching Korean players) while SCBW was never big in the foreigner scene. The SC2 scene will also likely receive another big boost of fans when HotS comes out... especially if Blizzard is able to better direct casual players to the competitive scene than they did on SC2 release (they've gotten better at it since then). Some SC2 related businesses are starting to turn a profit while the viewerbase is likely to grow massively with HotS and the Pro League adoption of SC2.
From an asset standpoint, SCBW is left with star power and a fading fanbase, but little else. How much longer could they really keep their star power in SCBW? If you were a SCBW pro and you saw ZergBong, MVP, and the suicide toss making more than $200k each in tournament earnings (+potentially nice salaries with LG sponsoring the first two and SK sponsoring the last one), wouldn't you strongly consider switching over? They may like SCBW more than SC2, but this is their profession.
The writing was on the wall for the players/league and they could either ride out SCBW to the bitter end and be left with nothing, or Kespa can do the best it can for its players and the league. Maybe you're right and nobody will pay to watch Jaedong play SC2, but their current situation is crap and they needed to make a move. So now they're in a transitional phase of getting their assets (their star power and fanbase) into something new. They're getting their players into the game in time for HotS where the metagame will be reset. Meanwhile, they aren't totally switching over because they could easily alienate their players and their fans. Don't tell me it wasn't painful seeing some no-name playing in the ace match instead of Flash.
Also, they'd currently be offering an inferior product to GSL/GSTL until their players catch up. This season, players will almost undoubtedly practice a lot more SC2 than SCBW and will hopefully start to be competitive with the GSL players by next season. Combine their actual abilities + star power + production value + established league, and they've got a very good chance of being successful into the future.
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On May 21 2012 16:52 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 15:18 BrosephBrostar wrote:On May 20 2012 04:39 hypercube wrote:
There's this weird human need to question the logic of a decision when you disagree with its goal. Kespa's decision is well-thought out. They want the maximum number of Korean BW fans to start watching SC2. That's their only goal. They're not dumb just want something very different than you do. Please, someone, anyone, explain to me why they want this. It's obvious that it's what they're going for, but I don't understand why. Everyone says it's for the money. Of course it's always about money. What money? Where do they think it's going to come from? Who is going to pay Jaedong to play SC2 that wouldn't do it for BW? Just one example would help me understand. Kespa never legally had the right to broadcast SCBW. Anytime Blizzard would be willing to alienate a whole lot of fanboys/girls and push the lawsuit to the end, they could have shut Kespa down. Blizzard probably didn't want to do it, but I'm sure they were using that power to pressure Kespa into changing over. Kespa had the matchfixing scandal, some lawsuits, and the rise of SC2 and LoL. They had a significantly declining fanbase and sponsors were dropping out while they were still contractually obligated to pay out some big salaries to players. They're down to only 8 teams and one of them can't even get a sponsor. Does that sound like a good position to be in? Meanwhile, LG recently picked up sponsorship of IM (a SC2 team) rather than Team 8. That's huge. That's good money. The foreigner scene is also willing to pay out some big money for SC2 (see MLG's PPV, GOMTVs foreign subscriptions, and even the foreign teams poaching Korean players) while SCBW was never big in the foreigner scene. The SC2 scene will also likely receive another big boost of fans when HotS comes out... especially if Blizzard is able to better direct casual players to the competitive scene than they did on SC2 release (they've gotten better at it since then). Some SC2 related businesses are starting to turn a profit while the viewerbase is likely to grow massively with HotS and the Pro League adoption of SC2. From an asset standpoint, SCBW is left with star power and a fading fanbase, but little else. How much longer could they really keep their star power in SCBW? If you were a SCBW pro and you saw ZergBong, MVP, and the suicide toss making more than $200k each in tournament earnings (+potentially nice salaries with LG sponsoring the first two and SK sponsoring the last one), wouldn't you strongly consider switching over? They may like SCBW more than SC2, but this is their profession. The writing was on the wall for the players/league and they could either ride out SCBW to the bitter end and be left with nothing, or Kespa can do the best it can for its players and the league. Maybe you're right and nobody will pay to watch Jaedong play SC2, but their current situation is crap and they needed to make a move. So now they're in a transitional phase of getting their assets (their star power and fanbase) into something new. They're getting their players into the game in time for HotS where the metagame will be reset. Meanwhile, they aren't totally switching over because they could easily alienate their players and their fans. Don't tell me it wasn't painful seeing some no-name playing in the ace match instead of Flash. Also, they'd currently be offering an inferior product to GSL/GSTL until their players catch up. This season, players will almost undoubtedly practice a lot more SC2 than SCBW and will hopefully start to be competitive with the GSL players by next season. Combine their actual abilities + star power + production value + established league, and they've got a very good chance of being successful into the future.
Of course the current situation isn't very good, but I still don't see how switching to SC2 is going to make it any better. LG is a good sponsor, but just how much are they spending on the team? The fact that it was announced as a partnership rather than outright buying the team makes me think it's not a whole lot. As far as I know the majority of sc2 players don't even get paid. I feel like sc2 fans vastly overestimate how much their scene is worth, but I see no reason for kespa to make the same mistake. If sc2 was being sponsored by American Airlines or Nike or something I could see why they would want in on it, but that's pretty far from reality.
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I can't see how this could possibly be good for BW. There will be viewers who have only watched SC2? So what? Even if the new spectators grow to love the game,the next proleague is SC2 only. What's even worse (from a "last hurrah" perspective) is that the BW games aren't as good as they could be. Of course they would suffer from significantly less practice. What's the point? Leeching off of BW's success and trying to pull some of the fans over? Sadly, that seems to be the case. If you want to sell SC2, then sell SC2 with the best of what these pros have to offer. Make them play SC2 full time, or quit. It's just painful watching these BW pros play SC2 badly *and* play worse than they ever have in BW. Let us have some good memories of the wonderful BW games of the past, and not these handicapped matches.
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I don't hate SC2 or anything, I actually played it for over a year -- that's a lot more time than I usually spend on any one game. But this format is just... terrible to me. If a switch to SC2 is inevitable, then switch to SC2. Of course that wouldn't make me happy at all, but it would still be preferable to this. Not commiting to one game can't possibly "help rekindle interest in BW" or "help the Korean SC2 scene grow" (as some people have said) more than if they'd just pick one and let the players focus on that.
If Korean BW truly is dying, please KeSPA, don't put it on life-support like this. Seeing proleague-BW live on like this hurts me so much more than if they'd just pull the plug and have it over with
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On May 21 2012 04:22 Pokebunny wrote:
I actually think the format is really amazing for everyone except the players and the brood war fans who really hate sc2.
I don't see how a format that puts undue stress on the players and lowers the quality of both games is good for most involved parties.
As for myself, I just want high quality BW games like the finals sigh..
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I'll start off by saying I believe you're trolling - but if not, regard my comments as a rebuttal to yours.
# 1 Professional sportsmen are perfectly able to pick up a new sport and be good at it. For example, Michael Jordan, having quit basketball, was instantly picked up by a professional baseball team, as evidenced by the movie Space Jam. Playing two games at the same time will only add to their prowess.
I like how you say "Professional sportsmen" and then pick someone who is at the top echelon of professional sportsmen. As someone who has worked beside a man who's worked as a strength and conditioning coach for professional teams and works with professional athletes, this statement is mostly false. They cannot just move and pick up another sport and be good at it. Jordan HAD played baseball before, so he wasn't new at it, but the reason he got picked up by the White Sox was BECAUSE THE BULLS OWNER OWNED THE WHITE SOX.
So, to make this clear.. most professionals can't do this.. Jordan failed at it.
# 2 To further ESPORTS we need to ensure the highest level of competition. Splitting your focus onto as many things as possible will help this. For instance, players like Incontrol, Painuser, and Destiny who use their time to also appear on talk shows, act as casters, play LoL, flip tables, and lift heavy weights, are also extremely successful at StarCraft 2. Furthermore, it is likely that dividing your practise time between the two games will only improve your play, as both skills complement one another.
Dividing your time towards something that isn't your profession (when you're not a "beginner") will make you worse. The Principle of Specificity would state that if you want to get better at something, you do that something. Anything that takes away from that would be, for the most part, detrimental to your success. You may also want to define "extremely successful", as that's pretty subjective (for example, someone who is able to 10-0 all their friends may be looked on as extremely successful within their group).
I know the rest is pretty much preaching to the choir (point 3, 4 etc..)
However, every coach and player that has been interviewed has wished they'd just go one way or the other. They know they won't be able to show the "best" kind of games (though some may still be pretty good) but they have to do what the sponsors/kespa wants. Although in reading the recent Bisu/Jaedong interview, they seemed to be getting somewhat bored (with BW) and are looking for a new challenge in SC2.
Edited: 5/5
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Perhaps I'm speaking too soon. I'm quite possibly incriminating Kespa way too much, not even hinting at the amounts of coercion that have gone into this from the directions of Blizzard, Activision, sponsors etc, with Kespa trying to salvage what it can.
I think this is where I'm at right now too. I had really high hopes, and watching some of the SC2 matches I was not happy. Actually I was sort of pissed. But that's my fault for having expectations that were too high. The teams and players both aren't used to this format and it's really the first time anyone has tried anything like this. I think we have to give them some time before we really judge how this turns out.
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It's not such a bad plan when you think about it : with this format we'll get awful bw games + Show Spoiler +Like lizzy vs canata, never seen a game this bad in proleague for a while
Nah it's really really really really really really really really really bad.
Edit : yeah, Activision-Blizzard has most likely put a huge amount of pressure on kespa for this, they've been trying to fu**k them over from the start, way before the IP lawsuit, so they most definately are responsible for this.
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Unless you have proof of that, you can't really say "they most definitely are responsible for this" (actually, you can say that, you'll just look retarded in doing so).
The sponsors in BW aren't what they use to be. As a company, if I want to survive, I go where the money is. The money is in SC2.. they didn't want to do a complete switch, so they chose to do a hybrid into full sc2 transition.
If you want anyone to blame, blame the sponsors for leaving the BW scene.
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On May 23 2012 05:03 Ero-Sennin wrote:
Unless you have proof of that, you can't really say "they most definitely are responsible for this" (actually, you can say that, you'll just look retarded in doing so).
The sponsors in BW aren't what they use to be. As a company, if I want to survive, I go where the money is. The money is in SC2.. they didn't want to do a complete switch, so they chose to do a hybrid into full sc2 transition.
If you want anyone to blame, blame the sponsors for leaving the BW scene.
Yeah well it's kinda hard to get sponsors when you got a lawsuit with blizzard that says your league is kindof illegal. Besides with the amount of money there is to be made with League of Legends, ogn doesn't NEED sc2.
Blizzard deserves the blame. Savior too, to an extent.
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On May 20 2012 21:17 Petit_Filou wrote:
I just can't stand in front of my screen when I see a BW game. I know graphics are not everything but come on... We are in 2012.
Get off Teamliquid and back on reddit. Your post disgusts me.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On May 23 2012 01:54 Ero-Sennin wrote:I'll start off by saying I believe you're trolling - but if not, regard my comments as a rebuttal to yours. Show nested quote +# 1 Professional sportsmen are perfectly able to pick up a new sport and be good at it. For example, Michael Jordan, having quit basketball, was instantly picked up by a professional baseball team, as evidenced by the movie Space Jam. Playing two games at the same time will only add to their prowess. I like how you say "Professional sportsmen" and then pick someone who is at the top echelon of professional sportsmen. As someone who has worked beside a man who's worked as a strength and conditioning coach for professional teams and works with professional athletes, this statement is mostly false. They cannot just move and pick up another sport and be good at it. Jordan HAD played baseball before, so he wasn't new at it, but the reason he got picked up by the White Sox was BECAUSE THE BULLS OWNER OWNED THE WHITE SOX. So, to make this clear.. most professionals can't do this.. Jordan failed at it.
Not true! Have you even seen Space Jam?!
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