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On March 22 2012 00:46 ecstatica wrote: I thought about what's attractive to me and it feels like I kind of dislike people with small heads? I have no idea why that is, definitely guys more than girls though. But huge faces on the other hand are even more repulsive. Does it seem sexy to anyone when a tall guy has a small head?
cannot speak for the tl community but apparently korea does^^
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i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ?
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United States1719 Posts
On March 22 2012 02:11 Gaga wrote: i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ? So this is just the korean side of the story, and there may be the other side of the story, so I hope nobody will be offended by what im about to write. This also in no way represents the entire population of Korea, but it holds true for the large majority.
Our hatred for japan mainly stems from historical reasons: japan occupied korea for abt 35 years starting in 1910, which ended with their surrendering to the Allied forces during ww2. They fucked with koreans during that regime big time, telling guys to cut their hair (confucian ideology prohibited mangling the body your mother gave you, including hair, so it was a BIG deal) and change their last names japanese style (창씨개명). There were rapes, massacres, pillages throughout the regime, and during ww2 they forced korean guys to be the japanese army's meatshield, while the women were sent as sex slaves. They were treated like shit, being raped, tortured, and finally killed when they were injured enough to be deemed useless (=if the sex slave was too 'loose' to provide adequate services anymore). They aborted babies by puncturing the womb from the stomach and the slaves were forced to relieve dozens of soldiers daily. There are also other horror stories such as being forced to eat the remains of each other's corpses, which you can find on google in your own time. The biggest thing is we believe the japanese govt never truly apologized for their behavior during ww2, nor were the high ranking officials during ww2 ever tried in court as war criminals. This is in contrast to Germany, which sentenced high ranking Gestapo officers as war criminals. To add insult to injury, there's a faction of japanese ppl arguing that the so-called sex slaves are making shit up, and were in fact whores that jumped at the first opportunity to expand their clientele internationally, who now want un-warranted compensation for their reckless behavior in the past. Also, Japanese schools once in a while try to sneak in textbooks that use altered versions of history: for example, their narratives oftentimes cast the actions taken by Japan leading up to and during WW2 in a euphemistic light, by only mentioning stuff like 'Japan helped Korea's economic expansion during the early 1900's by implementing a central railway system,' while leaving out facts about the killings, rapes and events such as assassinating our matriarch to put pressure on our ruling class. This gets the old generation pissed because they saw their friends and family killed/raped/tortured with their own eyes during that time, and even younger people like me get riled up as the surviving sex slaves are now poor grandmas who lived an empty shell of a life, shunned by their friends and family, with no husband nor children. Most have passed away, physically and emotionally broken with nobody at the sides of their deathbeds.
As for the chinese, they used to invade us regularly throughout history, and have us send them our produce, our women, etc. We were their stooge for the large part of history, but it's a thing of the past. We don't hate them, nor does our dislike toward the Chinese run anywhere as deep as our hatred towards japan; we just think the chinese are dirty that will do anything for their own betterment. I can't deny that a bit of racism is at play here though.
Those are just the biggest reasons why we don't like Japanese and Chinese people. There are other reasons as well, like Japan arguing that the island of Dokdo (독도) is theirs and stuff, but nothing major. Again, i dont mean to offend anybody, this is just the korean side of the story, no fluff or beating around the bush.
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Here's a fun anecdote I just remembered. This was way before this thread was created.
We have a native Korean friend who has spent a few years here studying. He's quite different from us since we're your typical laid back Vietnamese-Americans but we have fun cracking jokes and having the usual casual conversations with each other.
We like to call him "chamisul" because that was his WoW character's name, his real name of course is so stereotypical it was hard for us to say it without commenting on it either aloud or in the back of our minds each time. Chamisul is usually pretty quiet, he seems to enjoy listening in on our conversations and make small comments and laugh to remind us that he's there. But overall he's just a very quiet normal looking guy.
But one day... we started to talk about clothing and fashion. All was well until we started talking about Korean Fashion, particularly the outfits of celebrities in music videos. One of my buddies suddenly started saying to our Chamisul, hey Park don't you see a lot of Koreans wearing crazy colorful clothes like G-Dragon does in his videos? Man oh man did our Chamisul EXPLODE on us. Like holy shit, he's always quiet, but then we started to talk about Korean fashion and GD and all he went off on us lol.
He was like: "Only complete idiots or terrible wannabes will dress up like that in public", "You would never, NEVER see that in reality." exclaimed our Korean friend.
"Really? Ne-"
"NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!" screamed Chamisul cutting off our friend.
We all just sat there silently shocked at his outburst.
by Snuggles Copyright 2012
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United States1719 Posts
On March 22 2012 02:38 Snuggles wrote: Here's a fun anecdote I just remembered. This was way before this thread was created.
We have a native Korean friend who has spent a few years here studying. He's quite different from us since we're your typical laid back Vietnamese-Americans but we have fun cracking jokes and having the usual casual conversations with each other.
We like to call him "chamisul" because that was his WoW character's name, his real name of course is so stereotypical it was hard for us to say it without commenting on it either aloud or in the back of our minds each time. Chamisul is usually pretty quiet, he seems to enjoy listening in on our conversations and make small comments and laugh to remind us that he's there. But overall he's just a very quiet normal looking guy.
But one day... we started to talk about clothing and fashion. All was well until we started talking about Korean Fashion, particularly the outfits of celebrities in music videos. One of my buddies suddenly started saying to our Chamisul, hey Park don't you see a lot of Koreans wearing crazy colorful clothes like G-Dragon does in his videos? Man oh man did our Chamisul EXPLODE on us. Like holy shit, he's always quiet, but then we started to talk about Korean fashion and GD and all he went off on us lol.
He was like: "Only complete idiots or terrible wannabes will dress up like that in public", "You would never, NEVER see that in reality." exclaimed our Korean friend.
"Really? Ne-"
"NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!" screamed Chamisul cutting off our friend.
We all just sat there silently shocked at his outburst.
by Snuggles Copyright 2012 That is very true, the way that idol stars dress is very different from how commoners dress, and even among idols G-Dragon is like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay crazy. I support your friend in that nobody in his right mind will EVER dress like G-Dragon lol
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didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
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rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this
On March 22 2012 02:48 Skilledblob wrote: didnt the japanese government apologise multiple times and gave huge money support to Korea after the war? I am not trying to excuse what they did but that money is probably one of the biggest reasons why Korea was able to advance so quickly. This is just my impression so please correct me if I am wrong.
There would obviously be no SK the way we know it without all that foreign investment. US did the bulk of it, but Japan certainly participated too, since it was in their best interest.
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United States1719 Posts
On March 22 2012 02:48 ecstatica wrote: rottinegg has deep issues that need to be addressed. Like he's happy he went to specific clubs in Seoul because people there were "richer and taller" (while, mind you, he was wearing heels himself). Then he proceeds calling chinese dirty, which is especially hilarious given that Korea itself was basically founded by Shang dynasty. I'm not chinese but I can see how anyone with knowledge of history would just laugh at something like this I never said i agreed with the popular sentiments towards the Chinese, I just laid out the honest reason why a lot of Koreans dissociate themselves from Chinese people
and what do you mean our country was founded by the shang dynasty, the big stages of our country's progression were Old Chosun (고조선) founded by Dan Goon 5000 years ago -> the three country phase (신라 백제 고구려) which was unified by the Shilla - Tang allliance -> Shilla and Balhae(발해, successors of 고구려's ideals) stage -> the second three country phase with 신라 후백제 후고구려 -> Koryuh(Korea = 고려) -> Chosun (조선) -> Modern day Korea, where does the shang dynasty come in again exactly? Do you mean that according to a theory spawned by a particular group of historians, Dan Goon, who was probably the patriarch of a ruling family near the norther regions of modern day Korea's territory, may or may not have had Chinese roots mixed into his heritage somewhere along his family tree?
edit: I go to clubs to have superficial fun, not deep, meaningful conversations, so I'm happy with clubs that cater to a richer taller and prettier looking crowd, what's wrong with that?
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On March 22 2012 02:11 Gaga wrote: i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ? (Disclaimer: Not Korean. Taiwanese-American, and just my observations and answers I get from my parents and my other Asian friends and their parents. Also, when I use first-person plural pronouns, I am not talking about myself, but, y'know, East Asian people in general, with the added caveat that obviously not everyone is this way.)
Racism in East Asia is way more complicated and twisted than racism in the Western world; I feel it's a lot less black and white (no pun intended), and it's difficult to address it in a comprehensive manner, esp. on a forum. In general though, you can pretty much count on almost every East Asian country hating Japan for its actions during wartime. (And ofc, you can always count on conflict between Taiwan and China.) It's changing a little as we get farther and farther away from WW2, but it's kind of the thing you won't forget easily, if at all.
I feel that Asians overall practice casual racism pretty widely, with some of the older generation being more vehement in their hate and some of the younger generation picking it up. It has to do with bluntness and the shared history and tensions there, which in some countries gives rise to more mutual understanding that leads to less tension (somehow?) but in Asia it tends to promote more fragmentation, IMO. (Ethnic nationalism and all that jazz, with the knowledge that we all came from one people, but also with the desire to establish our own identity and to set ourselves apart from our neighbors. For instance, there are some tombs in Japan whose dead may be able to establish an ancestral link between Korea and Japan, but the Japanese gvmt won't let archaeologists dig them up for fear of discovering that the Japanese people are actually Korean by descent!) In any case, everyone knows the dirty laundry of everyone else's country, so there's little to hide, and we all know we have pretty legitimate reasons to hate each other in some way, shape, or fashion, so ... a lot of people do.
What I'm interested in is how important do Koreans view racial "blood purity" still, whether the younger generation still ascribes to that view or if it's starting to dilute a bit. How are mixed-children treated?
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On March 19 2012 08:28 Endymion wrote: this makes me wish i lived in korea, americans should take notes..
You think american should go more superficial?
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On March 22 2012 03:27 scDeluX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 08:28 Endymion wrote: this makes me wish i lived in korea, americans should take notes.. You think american should go more superficial?
just because it's "superficial" doesn't mean it's not practical. if partaking in superficial activities and customs makes you more attractive to the opposite gender, employers, awesome ppl, then i would argue such customs were only superficially superficial.
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On March 22 2012 03:27 babylon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 22 2012 02:11 Gaga wrote: i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ? (Disclaimer: Not Korean. Taiwanese-American, and just my observations and answers I get from my parents and my other Asian friends and their parents. Also, when I use first-person plural pronouns, I am not talking about myself, but, y'know, East Asian people in general, with the added caveat that obviously not everyone is this way.) Racism in East Asia is way more complicated and twisted than racism in the Western world; I feel it's a lot less black and white (no pun intended), and it's difficult to address it in a comprehensive manner, esp. on a forum. In general though, you can pretty much count on almost every East Asian country hating Japan for its actions during wartime. (And ofc, you can always count on conflict between Taiwan and China.) It's changing a little as we get farther and farther away from WW2, but it's kind of the thing you won't forget easily, if at all. I feel that Asians overall practice casual racism pretty widely, with some of the older generation being more vehement in their hate and some of the younger generation picking it up. It has to do with bluntness and the shared history and tensions there, which in some countries gives rise to more mutual understanding that leads to less tension (somehow?) but in Asia it tends to promote more fragmentation, IMO. (Ethnic nationalism and all that jazz, with the knowledge that we all came from one people, but also with the desire to establish our own identity and to set ourselves apart from our neighbors. For instance, there are some tombs in Japan whose dead may be able to establish an ancestral link between Korea and Japan, but the Japanese gvmt won't let archaeologists dig them up for fear of discovering that the Japanese people are actually Korean by descent!) In any case, everyone knows the dirty laundry of everyone else's country, so there's little to hide, and we all know we have pretty legitimate reasons to hate each other in some way, shape, or fashion, so ... a lot of people do. What I'm interested in is how important do Koreans view racial "blood purity" still, whether the younger generation still ascribes to that view or if it's starting to dilute a bit. How are mixed-children treated?
The situation with Taiwan and the PRC is pretty complicated though. The PRC communist party throughout the years of Maoist communist rule built a lot of legitimacy on the idea that Taiwan is part of China. Even though the original inhabitants of the island were not Han Chinese and traditionally the island has had stronger ties to Japan, it's part of the general nationalist focused revisionist history put foward by Mao and which the PRC still holds to today.
It's feared by a lot of people in the PRC government that if Taiwan were to declair formal independance, the legitimacy of the communist party rule could be brought into question as much of was originally built on Maoist ideas. Whether that would really happen is questionable, but many do believe it. There's also a lot of abstract nationalism tied to Taiwan too, not unlike Japan and the Sinkaku islands, or Serbia and Kosovo.
I have my doubts that the PRC government would risk war with the US over Taiwan. When the Taiwan independence movement gained steam in the mid 90s the PRC made a lot of overt threats, but backed down when the US sent in two carrier groups to the region. However I think all three parties understand that a war would be bad for everyone, thus the "one country two systems" theory.
As far as Japan goes, I don't understand the Korean attitude. The chinese dislike of Japan is understandable, the PRC government has been using Japan as a scape goat to rile nationalist sentiment for decades. I realize that the US was never occupied or brutalized as much as in Korea, but we lost a hell of a lot of people in the Pacific war and American POWs were brutally mistreated. Yet I'd say 95% of Americans have never even heard of Yasukuni Shrine let alone get angry when the Japanese PM visits it. I can't help but get the feeling that the Japanese economic dominance in the region doesn't have something to do with Korean sentiment.
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On March 20 2012 16:48 kurosawa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 16:38 drlame wrote:On March 20 2012 14:35 kurosawa wrote:I think people need to take this blog with a pinch of salt... Yes it's true Korean's have what the West would consider a slightly too regimented and/or perhaps twisted idea of what beauty is. But what country doesn't? I've worked out in East Asia for many years and the same bizarre understanding of beauty is prevalent in Hong Kong, in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. All these cultures feed off each other in their pursuit for the notion of beauty. It's just Koreans have made it a little more scientific, and the advancement of plastic surgery in Korea make it more of a phenomenon. I hope readers of this now dont go on to think that all Koreans are obsessed with these rules of beauty. For example, I dated a very pretty Korean girl for quite a while but she was always super tanned. She liked that look, much in the way of Ganguro girls of Tokyo (though nowhere near as extreme). She was accepted by her her own and not mocked. But to be honest, a few weeks back, I spent about a week in Seoul, and for once looked carefully at how people on the street looked. I'm afraid to report that I didnt see anyone resembling those in the OP's post. To me it says these uber beautiful people are in the extreme minority. There were one or two girls that looked stunning from afar...but when you get close you see the plastic surgery has completely altered their face in a way that borders on grotesque or unnatural. To me, Korean beauty is not about this at all. Koreans look different from the majority of North East Asia and I do quite like the look. I wish they weren't so hell bent on changing it and making themselves look like manga characters. For example, the Korean actress Han Ji Hye I think is stunning, looks Korean and I'm sure has not had a million rounds of surgery. + Show Spoiler + Literally two seconds in google says otherwise. Nice blog, very interesting read and those SNSD pictures almost made me jump out of my chair. Very scary (and pretty awesome from a scientific point of view) what surgery can do to your appearence. You saw those SNSD photos of what they looked like before. That's drastic change. Ok so she went under the knife a little but its not a huge difference, as shown in the photo below + Show Spoiler +VS Hyo-yeon of Girls Generation (SNSD)
Good that you took picture of Hyoyeon growing up and compared to actually Growned up Hyoyeon... Yes because that makes sense.
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when i was in school i was a real bad stoner. if i think back this would have been my nightmare. i was proud of myself when i managed to get a haircut once every 3 months.
but i feel alot of people here overreact as if somehow in the rest of the world you would be real popular if you are fat, ugly and have no job.also in germany alot of people dislike turks because of how they act... we all have it here too... the trends the looks.. i guess the difference is if you are a nice person or funny you get less shit for not being on top of your appearence... just my thoughts...
but i guess i would stop buy cigarets in sweatpants if i would move to korea haha
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On March 22 2012 02:29 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 02:11 Gaga wrote: i have a question about the hate thing between the koreans/japanese/chinese...
how deep does it run ? i mean as a german we like to talk shit about our neighbours (french,brits,polish) and not exactly love each other but it's not that serious and often in humor even though our shared history is pretty though.
can u compare that ? or does it run deeper ? So this is just the korean side of the story, and there may be the other side of the story, so I hope nobody will be offended by what im about to write. This also in no way represents the entire population of Korea, but it holds true for the large majority. Our hatred for japan mainly stems from historical reasons: japan occupied korea for abt 35 years starting in 1910, which ended with their surrendering to the Allied forces during ww2. They fucked with koreans during that regime big time, telling guys to cut their hair (confucian ideology prohibited mangling the body your mother gave you, including hair, so it was a BIG deal) and change their last names japanese style (창씨개명). There were rapes, massacres, pillages throughout the regime, and during ww2 they forced korean guys to be the japanese army's meatshield, while the women were sent as sex slaves. They were treated like shit, being raped, tortured, and finally killed when they were injured enough to be deemed useless (=if the sex slave was too 'loose' to provide adequate services anymore). They aborted babies by puncturing the womb from the stomach and the slaves were forced to relieve dozens of soldiers daily. There are also other horror stories such as being forced to eat the remains of each other's corpses, which you can find on google in your own time. The biggest thing is we believe the japanese govt never truly apologized for their behavior during ww2, nor were the high ranking officials during ww2 ever tried in court as war criminals. This is in contrast to Germany, which sentenced high ranking Gestapo officers as war criminals. To add insult to injury, there's a faction of japanese ppl arguing that the so-called sex slaves are making shit up, and were in fact whores that jumped at the first opportunity to expand their clientele internationally, who now want un-warranted compensation for their reckless behavior in the past. Also, Japanese schools once in a while try to sneak in textbooks that use altered versions of history: for example, their narratives oftentimes cast the actions taken by Japan leading up to and during WW2 in a euphemistic light, by only mentioning stuff like 'Japan helped Korea's economic expansion during the early 1900's by implementing a central railway system,' while leaving out facts about the killings, rapes and events such as assassinating our matriarch to put pressure on our ruling class. This gets the old generation pissed because they saw their friends and family killed/raped/tortured with their own eyes during that time, and even younger people like me get riled up as the surviving sex slaves are now poor grandmas who lived an empty shell of a life, shunned by their friends and family, with no husband nor children. Most have passed away, physically and emotionally broken with nobody at the sides of their deathbeds. As for the chinese, they used to invade us regularly throughout history, and have us send them our produce, our women, etc. We were their stooge for the large part of history, but it's a thing of the past. We don't hate them, nor does our dislike toward the Chinese run anywhere as deep as our hatred towards japan; we just think the chinese are dirty that will do anything for their own betterment. I can't deny that a bit of racism is at play here though. Those are just the biggest reasons why we don't like Japanese and Chinese people. There are other reasons as well, like Japan arguing that the island of Dokdo (독도) is theirs and stuff, but nothing major. Again, i dont mean to offend anybody, this is just the korean side of the story, no fluff or beating around the bush.
Holy Shit. My Granddad's fought in the Korean war, one was a machine gunner in the British Army, the other was a signal officer in the Navy. They told me a lot of crazy shit, battles with fuck all survivors (on the british/us/south korean side) carrying huge knives when he was at sea, due to the sharks (not to fight them off, but to kill themselves if they were sunk rather than be eaten) So I knew Korea had a kinda crazy history, but I have never heard anything like this. They have both passed away now, and I have their medals from WW2/korean war, but I'd have loved to ask them if they knew of this when they served in Korea.
Makes me glad to be born in Northern Ireland, even with the bombs/shootings etc when I was growing up. The world is one fucked up place.
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I'm late to the party, but damn, nice blog! I love reading these types of blogs about culture and other countries. For anyone that is looking to read more about Korea, here is a nice thread on the Korean night life.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=121666
A question for you, rotinegg:
What is the general consensus on interracial dating or marriage? I have a friend who is Vietnamese American and his girlfriend is Korean American. Her parents are pretty traditional and don't really approve of the boyfriend. I don't know the full details, but I heard things like how Koreans aren't that fond of Vietnamese folks? I heard her mention something called ASL (Asian Social Ladder) and how Southeast Asians are usually looked down upon.
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Holy shit, what a thread.
5/5
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Thanks for writing this. It's very enlightening.
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Awesome blog. It's cool to read about a different culture and read about how others find value in life!
...and shame on everyone criticizing the culture. It'd take all of 8 seconds for someone to make a blog about how North American culture is about working as little as possible for as much money as possible and as little work as possible to get there in the first place, all the while consuming as much excess as we possibly can... but almost everyone that lives here will agree that that would be a generalization, and for the majority of the population mostly untrue.
It's fair to think it strange that another country is largely focused on money and looks, but it is unfair to criticize their vanity from a throne comprised of gluttony and blood sports. Everyone and everything has its own problems. Spend less time worrying about someone else's, and more time worrying about your own!
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Great read
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