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Korea (South)1897 Posts
Warning: Boring Parenting Blog Post
A CHURCH SETTING
A week ago my second son, Mark, was baptized at church at 10 months of age (Tiny Atom). In Korea, churches usually have multiple worship services, and the service we had to attend was at 9am. We normally attend the 11:30am service and so bleary eyed, the entire family got up at 6am and got ready to go.
As it was a baptism, I put on my suit and tie and we picked up my in-laws and off we went. Since it was the Adult's service, we had to wait in the children's worship area until we called to present 'tiny atom' to the minister. At this point, our first son, three and half years old, Ethan (Mini Atom) was sitting with his grand parents and after the baptism was over, he got out of the pews and followed us back to the children's worship area.
Now, it was the first time in the children's worship area at the 9am service, and normally at the 11:30am children's worship they have teachers and a set program, but because there were only about 12 kids at the 9am service, the kids did whatever they wanted and they was nothing organized.
MY MINI ATOM
Mini Atom is extremely extroverted and likes people, but he is pretty obvious if people like him or not (after all he is just three and a half), but there were three boys who were much older than the toddlers. They probably were about 8,9 and 10, about twice the height of Mini Atom. And these older boys and cordoned off an area in the play area and used it as their private space. So whenever another toddler tried to play in that area where there were mats, the 3 boys would make a stink and basically forcibly remove the toddler from the area.
Now the moms who were there would just jump in to just get their toddler out of the way and keep them away from these boys. Mini Atom on the other hand, wanted to get into the play area, and it being his first time at the 9am service didn't know the rules of the play area. So he ended up going into the area a few times and ended up getting kicked out with increasing force. By the 3rd time in less than 5 mins, they were starting to get upset, so my wife said to Mini Atom, 'come on lets go outside'.
At this point, I said to my wife, 'no, let him stay' and then she whispered to me, 'I don't want him around those kinds of kids'.
THOSE KINDS OF KIDS
So my wife's first reaction was to automatically label the kids as the bad ones, the ones that their parents didn't teach them any manners and manners in Korea are pretty important as well as the older children taking care of the younger ones. But there is a very ugly side to Korea where being older is taken as right to exert one's authority, aka bullying. Unlike some other parts of the world, in Korea, someone who has been routinely bullied can end up committing suicide. And this has been a major social issue of late.
But a lot of times, kids never tell their parents, they have this idea that there is a kids world and a parents world. Also parents tend to be extremely ineffective in dealing with bullying, much like my wife, in Korea anyway, they would just see the bullies as coming from bad manner families and would rather they just be separated. Or else, the parents will reprimand the bullies, but really, even if the parents reprimand the other parents, what good does it really do? If the parents were looking out for the development of their children's character in the first place, would they be behaving in this way?
TAKING NO SHIT
Mini Atom though, wasn't having any of this shit, but because Mommy was being Mommy, he was getting confused as to how he should react. So while my wife was protesting, I took Mini Atom and put him right in the middle of the restricted play area and I too sat down there. The three 'bullies' started to protest, quite rudely actually, and I just looked at them and said with a smile,'lets have fun together', to which they groaned and sulked and gave me the evil eye.
Mini Atom sensing that these guys were being dicks, decided to sit beside them and then starting screaming 'AH JIN JARO' which unfortunately comes from me when I get mad, and basically means, 'Ah, Really?' but of course it really mean, "Ah What the fucking hell, you cocksucker', but as a somewhat responsible parent, I've learnt to limit myself to 'Ah Jin Jaro', of course my tone betrays my intention. So Mini Atom starts yelling this as loud as he can and the other three bullies then start to push him, but not so hard because I'm there, but the fact that they are pushing him, shows me that they have ruled this roost for a long time.
So I go up to Mini Atom and I try to move him, as he is being loud, it is a bit embarrassing because obviously he yelling something that I yell (lol), but he doesn't wanna move and keeps yelling, 'AH JIN JARO' so I say in a playful tone 'Your older brothers, don't want to play with you, they don't like you' and one of the bad manner boys says with as much venom as he can, 'Yeah I DON'T LIKE YOU' nearly spitting out the words. Then I put my head to his head and laugh and say, 'I don't like you either''.
Now I know, parents aren't supposed to act this way and say things to kids, "I don't like you either', but the reality is that kids are kids. I actually don't see them as bullies or bad kids, but the fact that no one is really taking responsibility for their character development, to me, leads me to this kind of interaction.
ROUND 2
By this time, my wife is frantically signalling me to get the fuck out of there with Mini Atom and stop causing trouble, so with Mini Atom, still yelling 'Ah JinJaRo' which is basically swearing, "Aw you cocksuckers' I pull him out. And the kids feel that they've got a victory here. So I wait until they start playing again and then another little toddler comes by and they kick her out and proceed to just occupy the area again.
Finally when Mini Atom stops yelling, I...let him back in and the kids all freak out and basically are close to swearing and mumbling under their breath. Then I say to them, 'hey you want to arm wrestle?, You three verse me and you can use both hands', and I say this as I grab a small table with my one hand and proceed to just lift it over in between me and them. While they are a bit impressed they look at as an opportunity to get back at me and I can see mischief in their eyes that they are going to try to hurt me (lol) by putting in all their force behind it.
KIDS ARE KIDS
Korea's macho culture it pretty ingrained since birth, any opportunity to show off your strength is a great time. So of course, these kids have zero hesitation and they think they gonna beat on this old guy. So as we start, I look at them and they start putting in all their effort and of course my arm doesn't move. Then I say, 'ok start?' and then I slowly start torquing my arm to the left and they start freaking out and laughing and the reactions are different. The kid who seems most bad manner gets angry, one chubby kids gives up and the youngest one starts to laugh cause he can't believe what is happening. So I look them in the eyes and say in Korean, 'Don't give up, Don't give up - Poki ha gi ma' And finally it ends. Then I make a big roar in victory, grab the youngest by the foot and lift him up over the mat and drop him. Then the other two boys say, 'don't do that please' and I smile and I say, 'ok, ok, but that was fun right' and they can't help but smile and I pat the most bad manner kid on the head and we leave the children's service area.
So the point of this ridiculous but true story is:
1. Mini Atom knows that the sphere of his Dad's influence extended to everything
2. Mommy Atom knows that she shouldn't avoid these kinds of situations for Mini Atom, that he needs to engage it
3.Bullies when they are this young aren't bullies, maybe they just don't have anyone to correct them, to care about them enough or are just left to their own devices. Kids are kids and I wasn't trying to intimidate them, but I was trying to get them know they are accountable for their actions, that someone will do something. But kids really don't have any way to cope with it if the bullies are older and stronger and more numerous, so I feel parents do need to step in; but not to complain about it, but really interact with the other kids,'whether it is to just let the know they will be held accountable or just to tell them that if they continue I really will beat the shit out of their dad and make him cry like a baby (just kidding ^^).
Teachers obviously have their own limitations and the reality is that most adults have totally forgotten what it was to be a child. Ultimately, I think every child does need correction and guidance whether they get it from their own parents or someone else.
 
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Great blog, MA. I'm not going to lie, didn't expect the ending^^
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Omg I love you for telling this awesome story 
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This is a really uninteresting story despite the fact that your reaction was utterly bizarre. Your wife's approach was far more logical. Despite the fact that it's mean, it couldn't be more natural for far older children to feel superior and act in that way, in any country. Unless they're putting other children in danger there's no reason for you to impose yourself. And you're lucky one of their fathers didn't see you manhandling their child, probably would have attacked you.
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Fantastic story, MA.
I'm not sure how your reaction to the situation would have been dealt with by the other parents in NA though; the overprotectiveness of parents here and the constant blame of everything other than the child him or herself on behaviour causes a lot of entitlement as seen with the 3 'bullies.'
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
On March 05 2012 16:34 Silvertine wrote:
This is a really uninteresting story despite the fact that your reaction was utterly bizarre. Your wife's approach was far more logical. Despite the fact that it's mean, it couldn't be more natural for far older children to feel superior and act in that way, in any country. Unless they're putting other children in danger there's no reason for you to impose yourself. And you're lucky one of their fathers didn't see you manhandling their child, probably would have attacked you.
Lol, well there was a warning it was a boring parenting story and I think you miss the point of the post, namely bullying. And the point is when does it start or where is that line? Culturally in Korea, older children have a responsibility to look after younger ones, thus we don't use names but rather, older brother, or younger brother. It is very obvious when it is the case. Also, the entire point that what is my wife's logical reaction is the wrong reaction which leads to children feeling this separation between the parent/child world.
And it isn't 'despite the fact that it's mean', lol, how can you justify that kind of behavior where these kids are manhandling toddlers? And if the parents are not around? If the kids are so bold to push the children in front of the parents, do you think there isn't an inherent danger in a non-supervised setting, so should parents wait to make judgement call until afterwards?
Lastly, if one of the fathers or all three of them were there, they'd probably join me for an arm wrestle, this is Korea. In any case, it probably would have helped to put in cliff notes so you could know that the observation is about early signs of bullying. lol.
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On March 05 2012 16:08 MightyAtom wrote:
Unlike some other parts of the world, in Korea, someone who has been routinely bullied can end up committing suicide. And this has been a major social issue of late.
I'm shocked that you could think that way and I stopped reading after that. Bullying is a problem in every society not just Korea. And just because some korean social factors influence the likeliness of suicide, it doesn't mean it isn't an problem elsewhere. Very insensitive from you. Though because it has become a personal issue from you, so that may explain why you feel it touches you the most.
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
On March 05 2012 16:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Fantastic story, MA.
I'm not sure how your reaction to the situation would have been dealt with by the other parents in NA though; the overprotectiveness of parents here and the constant blame of everything other than the child him or herself on behaviour causes a lot of entitlement as seen with the 3 'bullies.'
Yeah, I don't know either, I mean when I was a kid, there was no such thing as ADD; it was more of a matter that you were bored and not paying attention, but while bullying has been around forever, why hasn't there been any solution and is it getting worse; but when those who are getting bullied start committing suicide or start shooting people, I'd think people would start to really question how children are being raised...
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
On March 05 2012 17:00 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 16:08 MightyAtom wrote:
Unlike some other parts of the world, in Korea, someone who has been routinely bullied can end up committing suicide. And this has been a major social issue of late. I'm shocked that you could think that way and I stopped reading after that. Bullying is a problem in every society not just Korea. And just because some korean social factors influence the likeliness of suicide, it doesn't mean it isn't an problem elsewhere. Very insensitive from you. Though because it has become a personal issue from you, so that may explain why you feel it touches you the most.
I don't know why you read it as exclusionary or assumed that it was, I actually didn't mean it like that, and it was actually was meant to be in contrast to lashing out at the bullies, that in the Korean situation, they are more likely to internalize it and feel as though they have no options, thus commit suicide than seek out help or lash out.
I'm also shocked that you'd just assume that I mean it as completely exclusionary as I wrote, ' some other parts of the world' of course I'm not saying that it doesn't happen in other countries and more than anything I wrote this because of what recently happened in the US. I think you shouldn't pass judgement without asking for clarification first.
Edit: Btw, if you simply stop reading at a sentence and take it out of the context of the whole, and just make an assumption about the rest, I don't think that also add to any discussion here. What is the point to post then, for our own emotional reaction?
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
On March 05 2012 16:53 mizU wrote:
I wish I was your son.
^^ I have no idea how to respond to that. You know you're my dongseng lol.
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On March 05 2012 17:16 MightyAtom wrote:^^ I have no idea how to respond to that. You know you're my dongseng lol.
I'm sad I didn't get to see you in Korea. I hope when I eventually go back we can drink together or something.
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On March 05 2012 17:00 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 16:08 MightyAtom wrote:
Unlike some other parts of the world, in Korea, someone who has been routinely bullied can end up committing suicide. And this has been a major social issue of late. I'm shocked that you could think that way and I stopped reading after that. Bullying is a problem in every society not just Korea. And just because some korean social factors influence the likeliness of suicide, it doesn't mean it isn't an problem elsewhere. Very insensitive from you. Though because it has become a personal issue from you, so that may explain why you feel it touches you the most.
This seems like a weird thing to get offended over. When I read that particular part of OP, I immediately thought of a lot of instances in the United States of bullied kids committing suicide, but if you reread, it says "some other parts of the world," not "everywhere else in the world." The way OP put it, it's probably true. No part of the quoted OP text seemed very offensive to me... I mean... it's probably true. Bullying and suicide is a major social issue in Korea at the moment. That's what OP was saying. He wasn't raising a middle finger to the rest of the world, just spotlighting his own situation. That's kind of the point of a blog.
By stopping at that point, you lose all context of the piece. By calling him insensitive, you have been more offensive to OP than OP was in his post.
Good blog, thoroughly enjoyed it. 5/5
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Epic story.
You sound like a great father. When I grow up, I want to be a MightyAtom too!
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On March 05 2012 16:46 MightyAtom wrote:
Also, the entire point that what is my wife's logical reaction is the wrong reaction
Then it's not logical.
which leads to children feeling this separation between the parent/child world.
There is a separation, one which you should better respect. What do you think imposing yourself is going to teach them? They'll just go right back to what they were doing when you're not around. And chances are they'll be even more cruel to your child. Children have very little tolerance for those who have their parents come defend them, regardless of if they requested the help.
And it isn't 'despite the fact that it's mean', lol, how can you justify that kind of behavior where these kids are manhandling toddlers?
I didn't justifty it... I said that it was mean. Nothing you said would lead me to believe that the toddlers were in any kind of danger. Now knowing how nosey you are I'm sure you would have gone way further if they really were.
And if the parents are not around? If the kids are so bold to push the children in front of the parents, do you think there isn't an inherent danger in a non-supervised setting, so should parents wait to make judgement call until afterwards?
That's right, there's always going to be some danger and there are going to be a lot of scenarios where you're not around. Your only option will be to react to something after it's happened.
In any case, it probably would have helped to put in cliff notes so you could know that the observation is about early signs of bullying. lol.
You're almost being as obnoxious as you were in the story by adding 'lol' to every sentence. You're in no position to mock when your solution to the problem is to be an imposing weirdo.
To even bring suicide and the general issue of bullying into this is ridiculous. This was a couple of older kids feeling superior and not wanting to play with younger kids. It couldn't be more trivial or natural. I doubt you would have even gotten involved if it wasn't your child.
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
On March 05 2012 17:31 Silvertine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 16:46 MightyAtom wrote:
Also, the entire point that what is my wife's logical reaction is the wrong reaction Then it's not logical. Show nested quote +which leads to children feeling this separation between the parent/child world. There is a separation, one which you should better respect. What do you think imposing yourself is going to teach them? They'll just go right back to what they were doing when you're not around. And chances are they'll be even more cruel to your child. Children have very little tolerance for those who have their parents come defend them, regardless of if they requested the help. Show nested quote +And it isn't 'despite the fact that it's mean', lol, how can you justify that kind of behavior where these kids are manhandling toddlers? I didn't justifty it... I said that it was mean. Nothing you said would lead me to believe that the toddlers were in any kind of danger. Now knowing how nosey you are I'm sure you would have gone way further if they really were. Show nested quote +And if the parents are not around? If the kids are so bold to push the children in front of the parents, do you think there isn't an inherent danger in a non-supervised setting, so should parents wait to make judgement call until afterwards? That's right, there's always going to be some danger and there are going to be a lot of scenarios where you're not around. Your only option will be to react to something after it's happened. Show nested quote +In any case, it probably would have helped to put in cliff notes so you could know that the observation is about early signs of bullying. lol. You're almost being as obnoxious as you were in the story by adding 'lol' to every sentence. You're in no position to mock when your solution to the problem is to be an imposing weirdo. To even bring suicide and the general issue of bullying into this is ridiculous. This was a couple of older kids feeling superior and not wanting to play with younger kids. It couldn't be more trivial or natural. I doubt you would have even gotten involved if it wasn't your child.
again you miss the point, sigh, lol.
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
On March 05 2012 17:51 Silvertine wrote:
I accept your apology.
haha stop troling lol
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this silvertine fellow seems rather angry or not in touch with humanity =/ Great blog, some good hands on parenting :D
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On March 05 2012 17:27 MrBitter wrote:
Epic story.
You sound like a great father. When I grow up, I want to be a MightyAtom too!
This. Sums it up perfectly
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EPT
