|
No offense but it this sounds like "I'm better than the player i lost to" QQ blog. If you lost you are not, period. If your mechanic are great and your strategy is lacking that's your fault. And unless your GM or high masters, you have sooooo much room to improve and use your mechanics/apm better. What league are you?
I mean just look at your first paragraph:
I've been playing some more SC2, trying to overlook the massive glaring flaws and just enjoy it as a casual game to unwind. I don't practice any strategies, don't know any of the modern builds, don't really even go into games with a game plan. It really feels like I'm winning/losing at random too.
You call the game bad (massive glaring flaws???), than say you dont know modern builds and dont practice strategy, ofc you are gonna lose to people with less mechanics. And win some vs ppl with crap strategy and mechanics...
Get good builds, use your "superior" mechanics to keep production up and money low, and there will be a lot less "random losses to lesser players". If you are very good, use multi pronged attacks, drops etc to tax their multitasking. Save hurt units (even pros dont do this enough i think), get better positioning, focus fire more in battles if you can. Blink, spread units, use abilities. I could bet you money that there are a ton of things u can improve on, you just dont look hard enough.
In the end this is a strategy game, and should not be only about mechanics. You seem to be missing the strategy part...
learn a solid strategy thats prone to cheese, scout, and the game wont seem as random, if your builds have no directions, what else would you expect but random results? And drop the I'm better than these noobs and only lost because this game is crap attitude
|
stop being conceited and accept that sc2 is different from bw. ^^;; I have 300 apm in sc2 and I still need more.
I am glad that you consider only mechanics as skills, because a one dimensional player like you won't get anywhere.
|
|
|
One thing which I never understood why pros dont use, is just split your army in 3 fronts and keep poking and threatening their weak sides.
I've only seen MMA do this and in only a handfull of games.
That's a great apm sink, but you obviously need to be ridiculously good at scouting so you always know where your opponents main army is.
I'm trying to do that and I'm gold with 60 apm, Q_Q. I imagine you could do much better.
|
I have lost countless games to sub 70 apm Protoss players after 16+ minute games averaging 225+ apm, 150+ EAPM and sub 5 second injects. Nothing like seeing them outresource you on the income screen with 30 less workers, 2 less bases, less than half the APM and zero multitask. It's not imbalanced, it's just frustrating. I wish there was a better way to attack Protoss/Terran when they are playing risky or turtle-ing off of two base.
|
On February 17 2012 06:35 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
I have lost countless games to sub 70 apm Protoss players after 16+ minute games averaging 225+ apm, 150+ EAPM and sub 5 second injects. Nothing like seeing them outresource you on the income screen with 30 less workers, 2 less bases, less than half the APM and zero multitask. It's not imbalanced, it's just frustrating. I wish there was a better way to attack Protoss/Terran when they are playing risky or turtle-ing off of two base.
our workers dont bring minerals in any faster than yours. You are the one doing something wrong if you are being outresourced with a 30 worker lead.... especially if they have bad multitasking, so i can assume little harassment. talk about exaggerating things lol
|
God as a broodwar player this post really pisses me off for some reason. You can answer your own question so easily buy asking yourself what you spend your apm on in broodwar. It's the exact same stuff, but in starcraft 2 you can do a whole lot more of it a whole lot easier. Scouting, harassing, never missing any upgrades, chrono boosts, mule drops, microing your army in battle constantly, moving your army about to keep the opposing player on edge, etc etc etc. All the exact same stuff in broodwar.
If you don't know "what do do with your apm" then you clearly don't know your strategies well enough or properly, which is the first thing in your op, which answers your own goddamn question.
And how can you even speak of "massive glaring flaws" when you open your post saying you don't practice any strategies or know any new builds properly? Imagine if some newb came into broodwar, and said the game had massive glairing flaws because he didn't know how to properly deal with siege tanks or vulture mines without first learning any proper strategies in the first place. Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it?
|
Just do what I do and spam the shit out of everything to make yourself feel like a pro.
|
On February 17 2012 06:55 LuckyFool wrote:
Just do what I do and spam the shit out of everything to make yourself feel like a pro.
Words of wisdom! =D
Do you still do the VA/DC dinners? I haven't been in a while now, sadly.
On February 17 2012 06:16 Steveling wrote:
One thing which I never understood why pros dont use, is just split your army in 3 fronts and keep poking and threatening their weak sides.
I've only seen MMA do this and in only a handfull of games.
That's a great apm sink, but you obviously need to be ridiculously good at scouting so you always know where your opponents main army is.
I'm trying to do that and I'm gold with 60 apm, Q_Q. I imagine you could do much better.
Only possible as terran because your units are fast enough to retreat, as long as you're not on creep. If you get caught with a small force as protoss it's dead, not to mention probably going to do no damage on its way out.
I do agree, that's a great way to play terran though.
|
Ye. You bm dodger! Hope your apm drops to bronze status.
|
On February 17 2012 07:06 LuckyFool wrote:
Ye. You bm dodger! Hope your apm drops to bronze status.
Well, I'll try to hit one up when I'm on Spring Break. I need me some korean BBQ.
|
you're right it's super easy. that's why pros have to practice it all day and no one has even close to mastered the game mechanically. if you don't like the game, then don't play it. don't play it anyway and then proceed to whine about things you don't understand on a forum occupied by people seeking intelligent discussion.
|
On February 17 2012 05:49 iokke wrote:
No offense but it this sounds like "I'm better than the player i lost to" QQ blog. If you lost you are not, period.
because no one ever loses to anyone worse than them, clearly
|
On February 17 2012 03:57 darkscream wrote:
If you are actually macroing well, you'll be top masters/grand masters. I dunno if it answers your questions about APM but SC2 just is not about super micro management in the later stages of the game... Protoss is kind of the "lowest APM" race also, there isnt a lot extra for them to get. Zerg on the otherhand is an APM black hole - there's always more to do. I guess if you want to be challenged mechanically, roll some zerg up to master's league. Try to do muta/ling stuff in all the matchups, for example, and I think you'll find a sufficient number of tasks you can complete for advantages.
I was top masters, or whatever the top league was at the time, during beta and right after release. Actually, at the time, I was way slower and worse than I am now. I've seen my BW apm go up by about 50% since the start of beta. Not to mention I'm just playing that game at a much higher level than I was. So, if anything, my RTS skills have improved.
I think the problem is that I simply don't know how to apply them in SC2 anymore. Early on, people didn't have a good idea of how to play the game in general, and BW players had a massive massive advantage in terms of understanding how to construct builds and execute them. I will admit, the quality of play back then was pretty terrible, and now the difference between mid diamonds and GMs is much smaller than the difference between even the top and bottom of the highest league in beta. Mechanically, I don't think people got much better. I think they just learned how to execute builds and make the right units.
And yeah, I think I'll switch over to zerg and see how it goes. I just really really really hate zvz with a passion -_-
|
On February 17 2012 07:19 Drizzt3 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 05:49 iokke wrote:
No offense but it this sounds like "I'm better than the player i lost to" QQ blog. If you lost you are not, period. because no one ever loses to anyone worse than them, clearly
Consistently? No. You can have a bad day/game, but that game the winning player still was better. And odds are, if you lose you are worse then the winner, as much as we love to convince ourselves its not us, its the game. If you nitpick, sure u can have BO losses etc here and there, but overall you probably are worse then most players you lose to. Im sure it was the same in BW
Also if you have a lot of bad days, means you're not very good cause your inconsistent (I think i fall into this category)
|
my friend was raging on me after i beat him 5-0, telling me how the hell i'm beating him with 40 bapm(1.4.2) while he is over 200.
does really suck that much to lose to someone with significantly lower apm?
i guess yes...since bw i focused on having low apm while everyone was spamming their way to korean status. just to rub it in their face. i dont see why difference of apm matters when the low apm player is able to reach 300 when needed.
|
On February 17 2012 03:27 Count9 wrote:
The funny thing about apm is people that don't know the limitations of their apm will often lose to people who are much slower. If you have 200 apm and think that's enough to always look after your blink stalkers then you'll do some blink stalker harass. However, if it's not actually enough and all your blink stalkers die to a 100 apm a-move, it has nothing to do with balance, it's just that 200 wasn't actually enough to do the strategy you wanted.
That being said, yeah Blizz does cater to none mechanical players and it looks like they will continue to with the new expansion. It's why a lot of mechanical players like early aggressive or mid game aggressive plays. This forces their opponents to micro their units, not get supply blocked, keep building scvs, pull scvs if they're getting attacked etc. If they aren't mechanically sound then they get supply blocked and won't have enough units to hold off the aggression. If they don't make scvs then if the aggression doesn't kill them they can't carry on to the mid game. etc.
Basically, do aggressive builds that give you an advantage if you can micro and macro at the same time.
A good point. I always noticed that about koreans in BW on iccup as well as in SC2 - they just love aggressive plays that force the opponent to react to them, because they're just so much faster. I kind of hate playing against koreans on iccup cause I know they're going to do some crazy micro-oriented allin with 350 apm =P
It's just so opposite BW though - as a BW player, you want the longest game possible if you're the better player. Longer games give more opportunities to screw up and more points of weakness in your opponent's play to exploit.
In SC2, you want the opposite, according to what you say. I'm inclined to agree - the longer the game goes the less I feel like micro matters and the less any mechanical advantage I have seems to matter. After all, in that big engagement that SC2 boils down to, how much micro is there to do besides throw down a few spells?
|
On February 17 2012 07:43 EternaLLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 03:27 Count9 wrote:
The funny thing about apm is people that don't know the limitations of their apm will often lose to people who are much slower. If you have 200 apm and think that's enough to always look after your blink stalkers then you'll do some blink stalker harass. However, if it's not actually enough and all your blink stalkers die to a 100 apm a-move, it has nothing to do with balance, it's just that 200 wasn't actually enough to do the strategy you wanted.
That being said, yeah Blizz does cater to none mechanical players and it looks like they will continue to with the new expansion. It's why a lot of mechanical players like early aggressive or mid game aggressive plays. This forces their opponents to micro their units, not get supply blocked, keep building scvs, pull scvs if they're getting attacked etc. If they aren't mechanically sound then they get supply blocked and won't have enough units to hold off the aggression. If they don't make scvs then if the aggression doesn't kill them they can't carry on to the mid game. etc.
Basically, do aggressive builds that give you an advantage if you can micro and macro at the same time. In SC2, you want the opposite, according to what you say. I'm inclined to agree - the longer the game goes the less I feel like micro matters and the less any mechanical advantage I have seems to matter. After all, in that big engagement that SC2 boils down to, how much micro is there to do besides throw down a few spells?
I think it matters a lot. Having a good position is huge, making sure all your units are attacking, make sure u focus right stuff with your Collosii , save hurt ones etc. You have to actually do all those things and they will make a difference if you are not insanely behind already. Take ghosts vs templar, as another example - dodging EMPs, feedbacking, using storms well, using WP with templars and so on can win you the game even if you are behind
Really there are a lot of things you can do to get yourself advantage. If you don't its because you keep telling yourself there's nothing to do.. well its your own fault.
And SC2 is not reverse, longer games do give better player a better chance to win with the same reasoning you described in BW. THe longer the game goes on, more you benefit from your mechanic advantages, like building workers nonstop for a simple example (ull get increasingly larger resource gap)
|
If you are going into games with zero plan, know no builds, and are not practicing strategies... simply building whatever for whatever reason and then attacking with it at whatever time for whatever reason... you should never use the words "cheese" or "build order loss" because they don't apply to your games. Those words imply specific timings.
Go here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Protoss_Strategy
Write down a build for every match up on a sticky note, put them on your monitor, and practice them.
|
So you feedback all ghosts and medivacs, hit your storms perfectly, also your forcefields, have zealots in a nice arch, manually control your blink stalkers to snipe medivacs and vikings, target marauder tank with immortals and avoid cliffs with your colossus so they can't be sniped, while warping in zealots or dt's to clean up drops or harass, and reinforcing your main army.
Good for you.
I don't know what you should use your apm for honestly. Chronoboost gateways?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
