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The Ghost Nerf is Being Done Wrong - Page 4

Blogs > qxc
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Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
February 14 2012 19:09 GMT
#61
qxc's suggestion is obviously better than what Blizz has planned, but what I wonder is does the SC2 engine even allow for something like "-25 damage to Massive". So far we've only seen bonus damage, not subtraction damage.
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
[NSL]BansheeHero
Profile Joined February 2011
Czech Republic143 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:11:31
February 14 2012 19:09 GMT
#62
On February 15 2012 04:03 Al Bundy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 03:55 Torenhire wrote:
I kind of called it out as a ridiculous exaggeration so you wouldn't analyze the useless part of my post, yet you did anyways.

All you've done here is say "the nerf isnt that bad" and "deal with it"

What do you propose, then? Why is Blizzard's suggestion better than qxc's? I don't see any reason that something like Deals 50 damage minus 25 to massive would be any worse than Blizzard's suggestion, except for maybe people are butthurt about getting units sniped.

The ghost functions fine as it is right now, except that it's pretty OP vs Broodlords and Ultras, this change is better for the ghost.


A quote from a blizzard employee:
Show nested quote +
Our desire is not to redesign the ability or redefine the ghost’s role in the TvZ matchup, but to reduce its effectiveness versus broodlords and ultralisks while increasing its effectiveness versus infestors


Now let's see how qxc uses the snipe ability:
-snipe banelings
-snipe mutas
-snipe zealots
-snipe marines

Please note that while the first two can be seen as legitimate "strategies" from a Terran player's perspective, the last two are not even related to the TvZ matchup. It seems to me that qxc is upset about not longer being able to ABUSE the snipe ability. At the moment the ghost is too versatile TvZ, that's why I think this nerf is reasonable.


Thanks for finally proving that you miss the whole point of the OP.
He has no problem with nerfing TvZ Ghost usage, therefore all your complaints about how he has to "deal with it" or "nerfing something OP means its useless now" or the fact that you even think that "snipe is only meant to be used in TvZ" (Yes thats what saying "that its abusing" means.) are beside the point of the OP
Today I settled all family business so don't tell me what is imba. Admit what you did.
Jono7272
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom6330 Posts
February 14 2012 19:11 GMT
#63
Would be a much better change, hope Blizzard can be swayed from there current plans!
Innovation | Flash | Mvp | Byun | TY
wUndertUnge
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1126 Posts
February 14 2012 19:12 GMT
#64
As a zerg player, I agree with this wholeheartedly. It doesn't seem fair that there would be a reduction for all of those units. What did seem unfair (and although this isn't really the issue, unrealistic) was a snipe being able to snipe massive units. I hope Blizzard reads this. As a matter of fact, I'm going to post this on b.net right now.
Clan: QQGC - wundertunge#1850
TL+ Member
nucLeaRTV
Profile Joined May 2011
Romania822 Posts
February 14 2012 19:12 GMT
#65
Agreed.
"Having your own haters means you are famous"
coreydota
Profile Joined October 2010
United States180 Posts
February 14 2012 19:13 GMT
#66
On February 15 2012 04:01 tehemperorer wrote:
I respectfully disagree with the post, as a Protoss player it's clear that snipe has waaay too many applications and that makes the ghost an automatic tech choice rather than a tech choice that is made based on strategic info. You said yourself in your post (paraphrased) "No longer can snipe: one-shot banelings, one-shot marines, deal with muta harass, take down emp'ed zealots, one-shot workers, waste Zerg tier 3." Just by making that sentence you can plainly see how many applications snipe has, and not only that, how many it excels at. I loved Kaydarin Amulet but yeah, it was a little too good. No one likes a nerf but some are warranted.


ghosts are an automatic tech choice less so because they are good (they are) and more so because they are actually required in order to win major engagements. for example, trying to win vs archons and HTs without ghosts in late game TvP would be laughable to say the least.

disregarding snipes effectiveness vs t3 zerg, i'm not sure you can say that snipe's current state vs mutas/banes/marines/zealots warrants a nerf considering how little we actually see snipe used vs those units.

so all in all, i agree with qxc in that snipe should be changed in such a way that it's less strong vs t3 zerg but unaffected in areas where it's not being perceived as a problem in the current metagame.

Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
February 14 2012 19:13 GMT
#67
On February 15 2012 03:13 Frostfire wrote:
I think snipe need to be 35 +15 to casters. We shouldn't live in a world where it takes more than 1 snipe to kill a zergling.

And I'm zerg.


45 hp marines shouldn't survive one snipe either imo though.
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:22:25
February 14 2012 19:14 GMT
#68
idk if they want to have reductions based on type as they don't have any such precedent, but the void ray does have bonuses to two different types so i'm sure they can make some new alteration with that in mind.

i guess they don't want tvz to be decided by the fact that a t gets 30 ghosts at one point, and it becomes click moar faster = kill all the t3 units instantly

idk it makes sense to me
edit: i realize the 2nd paragraph makes no sense given the 1st, but I will leave it here as a token of my stupidity
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
DreamChaser
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
1649 Posts
February 14 2012 19:16 GMT
#69
On February 15 2012 03:13 Frostfire wrote:
I think snipe need to be 35 +15 to casters. We shouldn't live in a world where it takes more than 1 snipe to kill a zergling.

And I'm zerg.


As i was reading his post more and more thats along the lines what i was thinking, Blizzard has good intentions but they were just to drastic with the changed.
Plays against every MU with nexus first.
Iyerbeth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
England2410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:20:28
February 14 2012 19:17 GMT
#70
So, I was quite happy with the change but didn't read the patch thread as I've read previous patch threads and they're not fun. I have to say that in my opinion (as a primarily Zerg player) I'd find your proposed change perfectly acceptable, and in many ways better for the game than Blizzard's suggestion.
♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ Liquid`TLO ♥
Moochlol
Profile Joined August 2010
United States456 Posts
February 14 2012 19:17 GMT
#71
On February 15 2012 04:14 Alejandrisha wrote:
why doesn't my one unit kill everythingggggggg
idk if they want to have reductions based on type as they don't have any such precedent, but the void ray does have bonuses to two different types so i'm sure they can make some new alteration with that in mind.

i guess they don't want tvz to be decided by the fact that a t gets 30 ghosts at one point, and it becomes click moar faster = kill all the t3 units instantly

idk it makes sense to me


Ever hear of "You might want to sit this next play out." Words of wisdom, from the movie Anchor Man. You might wana stop while your ridiculously behind.
blaaaaaarghhhhh
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
February 14 2012 19:18 GMT
#72
Some of you bring up a good point in that they have never done a minus damage modifier before...brings us to an interesting dilemma now lol.
SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
Jono7272
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom6330 Posts
February 14 2012 19:19 GMT
#73
On February 15 2012 04:09 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
qxc's suggestion is obviously better than what Blizz has planned, but what I wonder is does the SC2 engine even allow for something like "-25 damage to Massive". So far we've only seen bonus damage, not subtraction damage.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. If they can do bonus to massive, why wouldn't they be able to do subtraction.
Innovation | Flash | Mvp | Byun | TY
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
February 14 2012 19:19 GMT
#74
don't play terran but great post. I don't like this update
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
February 14 2012 19:19 GMT
#75
Thank you so much QXC. Let's all let blizzard hear it. I'm a protoss player and I approve this message.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:20:52
February 14 2012 19:20 GMT
#76
On February 15 2012 04:16 DreamChaser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 03:13 Frostfire wrote:
I think snipe need to be 35 +15 to casters. We shouldn't live in a world where it takes more than 1 snipe to kill a zergling.

And I'm zerg.


As i was reading his post more and more thats along the lines what i was thinking, Blizzard has good intentions but they were just to drastic with the changed.

35 + 15 to sounds pretty good. while the X - y damage to massive would be ideal, I don't think they would put that in just because they don't have any other examples of that. Though it is a spell and not a damage type.. I agree blizz's way is a bit backwards about approaching the situation. would like to hear why they went one way and not the other
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
IrOnKaL
Profile Joined June 2011
United States340 Posts
February 14 2012 19:20 GMT
#77
Always nice to read these from you Kevin, you so smart.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
February 14 2012 19:21 GMT
#78
On February 15 2012 04:09 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
qxc's suggestion is obviously better than what Blizz has planned, but what I wonder is does the SC2 engine even allow for something like "-25 damage to Massive". So far we've only seen bonus damage, not subtraction damage.


It is currently not worded as +10 to armored, it is worded 10 damage, 10 to armored. So it would be very easy to implement.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
February 14 2012 19:22 GMT
#79
On February 15 2012 04:19 Jono7272 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:09 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
qxc's suggestion is obviously better than what Blizz has planned, but what I wonder is does the SC2 engine even allow for something like "-25 damage to Massive". So far we've only seen bonus damage, not subtraction damage.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. If they can do bonus to massive, why wouldn't they be able to do subtraction.

its so easy you can do it yourself in the map editor O_O!
@KawaiiRiceLighT
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:23:17
February 14 2012 19:22 GMT
#80
On February 15 2012 04:18 Torenhire wrote:
Some of you bring up a good point in that they have never done a minus damage modifier before...brings us to an interesting dilemma now lol.


They could just do "35 (+15 vs non-massive)"

On February 15 2012 04:22 KawaiiRice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:19 Jono7272 wrote:
On February 15 2012 04:09 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
qxc's suggestion is obviously better than what Blizz has planned, but what I wonder is does the SC2 engine even allow for something like "-25 damage to Massive". So far we've only seen bonus damage, not subtraction damage.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. If they can do bonus to massive, why wouldn't they be able to do subtraction.

its so easy you can do it yourself in the map editor O_O!


Figured as much haha.
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
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