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The Ghost Nerf is Being Done Wrong - Page 5

Blogs > qxc
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 34 35 36 Next All
Lord_J
Profile Joined April 2011
Kenya1085 Posts
February 14 2012 19:25 GMT
#81
I think qxc's argument here is a really good one. Hopefully Blizzard is listening.
No relation to Monsieur J.
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
February 14 2012 19:25 GMT
#82
Listen to this man Blizzard.
almins
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Wales39 Posts
February 14 2012 19:26 GMT
#83
i don't play terran so correct me if im wrong but in all the games ive played all the games ive watched ive never seen ghosts being used before late game at all except vs ht. ive never seen it being used to snipe marines, Marauder Reaper etc. and i don't believe that is what youre ment to snipe. the ghost is used for dealing with hts, infestors and zerg t3 atm from all the games ive watched, so my questions is why bring up problems with snipeing marines etc when its not used? i think that with the nerf to snipe on zerg t3 is good as it was a bit op when used in mass. but why bring up stuff its never used for? its like saying medivacs are useless for healing mutas or something. TT
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
February 14 2012 19:27 GMT
#84
Oh, well if the minus to damage is already in map editor, fuck it. 50 damage - 25 to massive seems perfectly legit and reasonable.

SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
Lizarb
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark307 Posts
February 14 2012 19:27 GMT
#85
Nice blog QXC, heard your idea on State of the game. I totally agree.

Only thing I know is that I know nothing.
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
February 14 2012 19:27 GMT
#86
Snipe is a spell, not an attack. It doesn't have to follow the x + y to z formula. They can just write out on the spell description that "The Ghost snipes a single, biological target for 45 damage. Does 25 less damage to massive units. This ability can be queued for multiple instant snipes." or something to the effect. The semantic argument is the least persuasive one for not changing the ghost in the way qxc describes.
Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
February 14 2012 19:29 GMT
#87
On February 15 2012 04:22 Demonhunter04 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:18 Torenhire wrote:
Some of you bring up a good point in that they have never done a minus damage modifier before...brings us to an interesting dilemma now lol.


They could just do "35 (+15 vs non-massive)"

Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:22 KawaiiRice wrote:
On February 15 2012 04:19 Jono7272 wrote:
On February 15 2012 04:09 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
qxc's suggestion is obviously better than what Blizz has planned, but what I wonder is does the SC2 engine even allow for something like "-25 damage to Massive". So far we've only seen bonus damage, not subtraction damage.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. If they can do bonus to massive, why wouldn't they be able to do subtraction.

its so easy you can do it yourself in the map editor O_O!


Figured as much haha.



"non-massive" might not be a category allowable for assigning bonus damage to either. My point is qxc's suggestion is obviously the best, but maybe Blizz can't figure out how to make a change like that without changes to the editor.
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
February 14 2012 19:30 GMT
#88
On February 15 2012 04:26 almins wrote:
i don't play terran so correct me if im wrong but in all the games ive played all the games ive watched ive never seen ghosts being used before late game at all except vs ht. ive never seen it being used to snipe marines, Marauder Reaper etc. and i don't believe that is what youre ment to snipe. the ghost is used for dealing with hts, infestors and zerg t3 atm from all the games ive watched, so my questions is why bring up problems with snipeing marines etc when its not used? i think that with the nerf to snipe on zerg t3 is good as it was a bit op when used in mass. but why bring up stuff its never used for? its like saying medivacs are useless for healing mutas or something. TT


Not entirely true - people are starting to use ghost snipes vs marines and whatnot. It's not a widescale staple thing yet where you see it 3 times in a BO7.

Part of QXC's post is that this ghost nerf would completely eliminate the chance of that ever happening. What few people are experimenting or trying it would have ZERO reason to once this nerf goes through.

It's like Blizzard is axing a whole bunch of the ghost's potential all at once with this nerf, where it's completely unnecessary to do so. Ghosts are OP vs Zerg T3, I will 100% admit to that. It needs to be fixed. We do NOT, however, need to "fix" it vs the entire game, just the particular instance (Zerg T3)

Minus to massive would solve this problem. Suddenly snipe does half damage to Zerg T3 (and other massives), and still retains its usefulness vs early ghost TvT and other fast ghost builds.
SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
Mirhi
Profile Joined February 2010
United States389 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:32:52
February 14 2012 19:31 GMT
#89
In other words, ghosts would actually be balanced with Blizzard's changes.

Ghosts have long been overpowered against both Protoss and Zerg (ever since the resource change). EMP is still devastating to Protoss and snipe is still a very good skill against literally every Zerg unit.

Just let it go man.
Esportsing really hard | www.twitter.com/ffmirhi
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
February 14 2012 19:32 GMT
#90
On February 15 2012 04:29 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:22 Demonhunter04 wrote:
On February 15 2012 04:18 Torenhire wrote:
Some of you bring up a good point in that they have never done a minus damage modifier before...brings us to an interesting dilemma now lol.


They could just do "35 (+15 vs non-massive)"

On February 15 2012 04:22 KawaiiRice wrote:
On February 15 2012 04:19 Jono7272 wrote:
On February 15 2012 04:09 Johnny_Vegas wrote:
qxc's suggestion is obviously better than what Blizz has planned, but what I wonder is does the SC2 engine even allow for something like "-25 damage to Massive". So far we've only seen bonus damage, not subtraction damage.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. If they can do bonus to massive, why wouldn't they be able to do subtraction.

its so easy you can do it yourself in the map editor O_O!


Figured as much haha.



"non-massive" might not be a category allowable for assigning bonus damage to either. My point is qxc's suggestion is obviously the best, but maybe Blizz can't figure out how to make a change like that without changes to the editor.


Like KawaiiRice said, you can do subtractions anyway.
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
Azaryah
Profile Joined September 2010
United States55 Posts
February 14 2012 19:32 GMT
#91
<3 QXC, my favorite Terran, knows his stuff
'Be water, my friend"
ROOTCatZ
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Peru1238 Posts
February 14 2012 19:33 GMT
#92
awesome post kfc
Progamerwww.root-gaming.com
BronzeLeague
Profile Joined November 2011
United States17 Posts
February 14 2012 19:34 GMT
#93
I also was wondering about this. I had the power of snipe demonstrated to me when my friend and I were coming up with some interesting 2v2 strategies and used ghosts as an integral part of our armies early. What do any of you think about a change in the energy cost of snipe? It would not prevent ghosts from being very effective against brood lords and ultras, but after they do their damage, the energy should be low enough that their cloak runs out. I thought this might be an effective way to nerf them a bit vs tier 3 units.
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:35:48
February 14 2012 19:35 GMT
#94
Tbh when I read the ghost nerf I thought "Ok if snipe is OP vs BL/Ultras, why not just nerf their damage vs massive since there are only two massive biological units in the game?" I'm glad someone on SOTG came up with this, since Blizzard might actually listen to them.

On February 15 2012 04:33 coL.CatZ wrote:
awesome post kfc


lol
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
Johnny_Vegas
Profile Joined December 2007
United States239 Posts
February 14 2012 19:35 GMT
#95
On February 15 2012 04:27 Gheed wrote:
Snipe is a spell, not an attack. It doesn't have to follow the x + y to z formula. They can just write out on the spell description that "The Ghost snipes a single, biological target for 45 damage. Does 25 less damage to massive units. This ability can be queued for multiple instant snipes." or something to the effect. The semantic argument is the least persuasive one for not changing the ghost in the way qxc describes.


It doesn't matter what's written on the spell description, as that is not what the SC2 engine uses, that's just flavor text for the player. I'm saying that until someone really familiar with the SC2 editor explains otherwise, its a possibility that Blizz can't make a change like qxc suggests because of a limitation in the engine. Considering no such "subtraction" damage yet exists in the game, I think its a very real possibility. Also there is no bonus damage in the game that only affects non-massive, or for that matter, non-air, etc...
battlereports.com (co-founder/developer), Nohunters Discussion Forum operator
LucidityDark
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom139 Posts
February 14 2012 19:35 GMT
#96
Why buff to 50 damage with snipe? You could 3 shot zealots, or emp and 2 shot. Potentially zealots would lose 2/3rds of their health if enough ghosts are out and that would mutilate toss armies automatically. The current change seems fine as ghosts become what they were designed to be, a highly specialised unit capable of murdering casters. Having it murder other stuff really effectively too is strange in my opinion.
Denzil
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom4193 Posts
February 14 2012 19:37 GMT
#97
On February 15 2012 04:13 Demonhunter04 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 03:13 Frostfire wrote:
I think snipe need to be 35 +15 to casters. We shouldn't live in a world where it takes more than 1 snipe to kill a zergling.

And I'm zerg.


45 hp marines shouldn't survive one snipe either imo though.


Snipe should be changed to have a 20% chance to headshot and the ghost should immediately proceed to high 5 the closest Near by ghost
Anna: So Sen how will you prepare for your revenge v MC? Sen: With a smile.
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:38:48
February 14 2012 19:37 GMT
#98
On February 15 2012 04:35 LucidityDark wrote:
Why buff to 50 damage with snipe? You could 3 shot zealots, or emp and 2 shot. Potentially zealots would lose 2/3rds of their health if enough ghosts are out and that would mutilate toss armies automatically. The current change seems fine as ghosts become what they were designed to be, a highly specialised unit capable of murdering casters. Having it murder other stuff really effectively too is strange in my opinion.


Due to zerg regeneration, it takes 3 45 damage snipes to kill a 90 hp infestor (it regens 1 hp after getting sniped). The only other interactions affected by a buff to 50 damage would be vs roaches and zealots, both of which would be killed by 3 snipes instead of getting sniped 3 times and then having 10 or 15 hp leftover, respectively.

On February 15 2012 04:37 Denzil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:13 Demonhunter04 wrote:
On February 15 2012 03:13 Frostfire wrote:
I think snipe need to be 35 +15 to casters. We shouldn't live in a world where it takes more than 1 snipe to kill a zergling.

And I'm zerg.


45 hp marines shouldn't survive one snipe either imo though.


Snipe should be changed to have a 20% chance to headshot and the ghost should immediately proceed to high 5 the closest Near by ghost


The idea behind snipe ignoring armor is that the sniper round hits a vulnerable spot like the head or neck that is also weakly armored. Funny idea though .
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
Alanore
Profile Joined March 2011
Turkey26 Posts
February 14 2012 19:38 GMT
#99
I totally agree with qxc and someone should make a pool about this change.
Think this way, now we can not even one-shot "a zergling". Let me ask you a question Blizzard.
You are making a "solo operative" unit and give him ability called "snipe" and this sniper can NOT one-shot any unit at all. Are you kidding!?

I can understand if SC2 engine don't allow "subtraction damage" (if this is true, it's broken at the beggining) but i want to ask another question.
How can you expect to make "balance" by only "adding" something at one side ?
Crowned
Profile Joined August 2011
United States368 Posts
February 14 2012 19:39 GMT
#100
This needs to happen, don't make ghosts irrelevant in other matchups just because they are OP against tier 3 Zerg. 35 base damage + 15 to non-massive units will accomplish what Blizzard wanted to do without making it to where ghost can't even snipe a zergling in one shot... pathetic.
It's cool to love to win, but it's better to hate to lose.
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