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On February 15 2012 04:35 Johnny_Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 04:27 Gheed wrote:
Snipe is a spell, not an attack. It doesn't have to follow the x + y to z formula. They can just write out on the spell description that "The Ghost snipes a single, biological target for 45 damage. Does 25 less damage to massive units. This ability can be queued for multiple instant snipes." or something to the effect. The semantic argument is the least persuasive one for not changing the ghost in the way qxc describes. It doesn't matter what's written on the spell description, as that is not what the SC2 engine uses, that's just flavor text for the player. I'm saying that until someone really familiar with the SC2 editor explains otherwise, its a possibility that Blizz can't make a change like qxc suggests because of a limitation in the engine. Considering no such "subtraction" damage yet exists in the game, I think its a very real possibility. Also there is no bonus damage in the game that only affects non-massive, or for that matter, non-air, etc...
You are pretty naive if you think the SC2 engine can't handle -25 against massive. Go play a tower defense or something, look at all the damage types they have.
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On February 15 2012 04:38 Alanore wrote:
I totally agree with qxc and someone should make a pool about this change.
Think this way, now we can not even one-shot "a zergling". Let me ask you a question Blizzard.
You are making a "solo operative" unit and give him ability called "snipe" and this sniper can NOT one-shot any unit at all. Are you kidding!?
I can understand if SC2 engine don't allow "subtraction damage" (if this is true, it's broken at the beggining) but i want to ask another question.
How can you expect to make "balance" by only "adding" something at one side ?
With the current snipe nerf, Ghosts with +3 attack would do more damage with their regular attacks (vs light) than with snipe, which is just retarded.
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Ghosts are meant to be anti-casters, be glad you still have other options to deal with things (that are not as strong, but at least doable).
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On February 15 2012 04:39 Artifex wrote:
Ghosts are meant to be anti-casters, be glad you still have other options to deal with things (that are not as strong, but at least doable).
Blizzard didn't invent the specific and complete role of every unit in the game, nor should they. Innovative use of ghosts makes the game more interesting both to play and watch. Also, saying "be glad" as if ghosts are more of a luxury than a necessity vs certain non-caster units makes it sound like you think Terran doesn't need some sort of all around lategame unit.
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Another reasonable nerf would be -25 to armored.
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On February 15 2012 03:22 Moochlol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:20 zul wrote:
why would you buff it from 45 to 50? I like most of what you`re proposing in this blog, but I don`t see the reason to buff snipe. Leave it 45 damage and reduce it by 15 versus massive. Because combating infestor on top of ZT3 is very difficult(3 snipes to kill infestor), banking on the infestor taking some random extra dmg to kill it when it sits @ 1 health or something is kinda dumb, he is making the math like this so it 2 shots infestor, which is totally valid given the situation.
you dont need to kill infestors to make them useless for the battle. EMP solves. Besides that, the whole terran army should be capable to make the 1hp disappear very very fast. infestors are made of paper 
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On February 15 2012 04:39 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 04:35 Johnny_Vegas wrote:On February 15 2012 04:27 Gheed wrote:
Snipe is a spell, not an attack. It doesn't have to follow the x + y to z formula. They can just write out on the spell description that "The Ghost snipes a single, biological target for 45 damage. Does 25 less damage to massive units. This ability can be queued for multiple instant snipes." or something to the effect. The semantic argument is the least persuasive one for not changing the ghost in the way qxc describes. It doesn't matter what's written on the spell description, as that is not what the SC2 engine uses, that's just flavor text for the player. I'm saying that until someone really familiar with the SC2 editor explains otherwise, its a possibility that Blizz can't make a change like qxc suggests because of a limitation in the engine. Considering no such "subtraction" damage yet exists in the game, I think its a very real possibility. Also there is no bonus damage in the game that only affects non-massive, or for that matter, non-air, etc... You are pretty naive if you think the SC2 engine can't handle -25 against massive. Go play a tower defense or something, look at all the damage types they have.
Hey I didn't say it was impossible, just was questioning it. And you'll be happy to know that I fired up the Map editor to figure it out myself, and YES it is possible to make Ghost's Snipe do -25 to massive. I tested it in the unit tester, worked fine. Cool, I just wanted to make sure, but thanks for calling me naive for not knowing the intricacies of the map editor, and no I don't play tower defense maps sorry.
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On February 15 2012 04:39 Demonhunter04 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 04:38 Alanore wrote:
I totally agree with qxc and someone should make a pool about this change.
Think this way, now we can not even one-shot "a zergling". Let me ask you a question Blizzard.
You are making a "solo operative" unit and give him ability called "snipe" and this sniper can NOT one-shot any unit at all. Are you kidding!?
I can understand if SC2 engine don't allow "subtraction damage" (if this is true, it's broken at the beggining) but i want to ask another question.
How can you expect to make "balance" by only "adding" something at one side ? With the current snipe nerf, Ghosts with +3 attack would do more damage with their regular attacks (vs light) than with snipe, which is just retarded.
How did I not see this >_>
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Definitely agree with pretty much everything. Snipe should be -25 to massive, since that directly impacts the imbalance in question (ghosts owning Zerg T3). This is a terrible change, that just pidgeon-holes yet another unit into a role.
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Yeah your idea is a lot better cause if Blizzard implement their way of nerfing the ghost they remove the ghost all together.
The ghost will be used for EMP only. And nukes ofc....
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This is QXC, and posts like this is why you've probably heard of him. Oh yeah, he also plays the game. ♥
Well done.
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i agree. I play protoss and have come to the conclusion that terran<protoss after emp nerf+immortal range buff. It seems terran struggles the most with upgraded zealots, so leaving snipe as base 50 i think would lead to some interesting play, including more of those extremely difficult but effective "OMG WTF HOW DID HE JUST ________" micro moments viewers can really appreciate, such as storms and vulture micro from BW. This would be a great example of pushing the limits of smart casting to do something really incredible, rather than just blanket emp or storm or fungal or whatever
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On February 15 2012 04:46 zul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:22 Moochlol wrote:On February 15 2012 03:20 zul wrote:
why would you buff it from 45 to 50? I like most of what you`re proposing in this blog, but I don`t see the reason to buff snipe. Leave it 45 damage and reduce it by 15 versus massive. Because combating infestor on top of ZT3 is very difficult(3 snipes to kill infestor), banking on the infestor taking some random extra dmg to kill it when it sits @ 1 health or something is kinda dumb, he is making the math like this so it 2 shots infestor, which is totally valid given the situation. you dont need to kill infestors to make them useless for the battle. EMP solves. Besides that. the whole terran army should be capable to make the 1hp disappear very very fast. infestors are made of paper
Infestors kept at proper distance should only be targetable by siege tanks and ghosts, and the huge size of infestors (compared to high templar and ghosts) makes them more resistant to EMP even if they're clumped. That reason alone is why infestors are almost always sniped and not EMP'd.
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I couldn't agree more with what you just written here, Kevin. And I think, that what CatZ proposed on the SotG on sunday is the best thing, that Blizz can do with the ghost (he said 50 damage -15 vs massive, for those who didn't watch last SotG)
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I think the snipe change is fine. 1 unit killing everything in the game didn't seem reasonable. I like that now it just does good damage.
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This seems like a very reasonable and well thoughtout idea QXC.
It will only be up to them if they decide to change it in any way other than their projected idea, well have to wait and see.
I doubt that they well not do this change, they need to fix ghosts and don't want to use too much effort doing so.
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One thing that you have to keep in mind is their effectiveness against Overseers. One big issue that I have seen is that snipe range, and overseer detection range only differ by 1. Sniping the overseers means that the ghosts have free rain over the rest of the army. Fungal really isn't an answer hear because ghosts are anti-infestor as well. What you end up with is a unit that can cloak, but also hard counters all detection options other than spore crawlers.
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You make some good points... but similar arguments were made when the infestor NP range was nerfed.
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I completely agree with QXC!
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On February 15 2012 04:56 TheLindyHop wrote:
You make some good points... but similar arguments were made when the infestor NP range was nerfed.
you cant compare that ALL. and besides the nerf of the NP range was quite less heavier than the nerf of the ghost, or did NP range got cut in half?
-lol-
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EPT
