• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:16
CEST 14:16
KST 21:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task28[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview19herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)17Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6
Community News
[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)9Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14
StarCraft 2
General
Aligulac.com changelog and feedback thread Interview with oPZesty on Cheeseadelphia/Coaching herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview Power Rank: October 2018
Tourneys
DreamHack Dallas 2025 EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) Last Chance Qualifiers for OlimoLeague 2024 Winter $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task ASL 19 Tickets for foreigners [ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] RO20 Group Stage [BSL20] RO20 Group A - Sunday 20:00 CET
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 18760 users

The Ghost Nerf is Being Done Wrong - Page 7

Blogs > qxc
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 36 Next All
Polygamy
Profile Joined January 2010
Austria1114 Posts
February 14 2012 19:57 GMT
#121
yeah I thought your idea made a lot of since when you discussed it on state of the game.
FuttBucker
Profile Joined November 2011
United States2 Posts
February 14 2012 20:00 GMT
#122
+ damage vs psionic? Doesn't ghost already counter psionics with emp? I agree with QXC. - vs massive or + vs non-massive.
I put the F U in fun
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
February 14 2012 20:00 GMT
#123
On February 15 2012 04:39 Demonhunter04 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:38 Alanore wrote:
I totally agree with qxc and someone should make a pool about this change.
Think this way, now we can not even one-shot "a zergling". Let me ask you a question Blizzard.
You are making a "solo operative" unit and give him ability called "snipe" and this sniper can NOT one-shot any unit at all. Are you kidding!?

I can understand if SC2 engine don't allow "subtraction damage" (if this is true, it's broken at the beggining) but i want to ask another question.
How can you expect to make "balance" by only "adding" something at one side ?


With the current snipe nerf, Ghosts with +3 attack would do more damage with their regular attacks (vs light) than with snipe, which is just retarded.



Sounds like Thors Striks Cannon to me ^^
kawaiiryuko
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States368 Posts
February 14 2012 20:01 GMT
#124
While I think there's merit to the idea of making it -dmg vs. massive as opposed to +dmg vs psionic (??), why should the base damage of snipe go up from 45 (as it is now) to 50 (as you proposed)? Perhaps 45 (-20 dmg vs. massive) would be better?
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
February 14 2012 20:02 GMT
#125
I agree almost fully. The only thing I don't agree with is that they wont be used simply because they're not cost effective. All that matters in an endgame army is that something is food effective. Otherwise no one would ever make ultralisks in any game. Vs zerg I don't think ghosts will be used less as they will fill the exact same role but do it in a balanced fashion. Vs protoss though I can understand it making zealots even stronger which is kind of ridiculous. I think the zealots being sturdier to snipes might be the biggest problem of the way they patches this honestly.
ChiliFritos
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5 Posts
February 14 2012 20:02 GMT
#126
not all workers can be sniped...IE probes...
Nuclear Launch Detected
Sethronu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United Kingdom450 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 20:03:22
February 14 2012 20:02 GMT
#127
While the original post seems quite well thought out and reasonable, everyone (including the OP) seem to be ignoring the fact that Ghosts actually have very good survivability and decent dps even without using snipe. :l

I do agree that multi-faceted units that can be effective if played correctly in more than a handful of scenarios are cool, it's just not how the rest of SC2 is designed. Having ONE unit with so many applications when every other unit in game is essentially one-dimensional really makes no sense at all.

Again, I'm not saying that it's good to have one-dimensional units - but it's how all of Starcraft 2 is, with the exception of Ghosts and, to a lesser extent, Ravens.
lordofsoup
Profile Joined January 2012
United States159 Posts
February 14 2012 20:03 GMT
#128
GIVE ME SPECTRES!!!!!!

but really, if you are going to nerf the ghost to practically unusable, I think spectres would be a good compromise. Ghosts are now useless. Now snipe does less damage than fungal to workers. Sure you get 3 shots, but fungal can hit like ten. Snipe is now an anti caster spell, which it was before. I would like spectres.
NOHUNTERS
zul
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany5427 Posts
February 14 2012 20:03 GMT
#129
On February 15 2012 04:57 kigo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:56 TheLindyHop wrote:
You make some good points... but similar arguments were made when the infestor NP range was nerfed.




you cant compare that ALL. and besides the nerf of the NP range was quite less heavier than the nerf of the ghost, or did NP range got cut in half?



-lol-

range was decreased and dont forget that NP once had no time limit which also was decreased to 12 seconds.
keep it deep! @zulison
zBro
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland448 Posts
February 14 2012 20:03 GMT
#130
I just can't see blizzard nerfing ghost like that. TvZ lategame is already hard for me because it requires so much micro.
Ironslice
Profile Joined January 2012
14 Posts
February 14 2012 20:05 GMT
#131
I agree 100%
Just because the Ghosts is too strong against 1 or 2 units doesnt mean its strong against others. Nerfing it this much would kill its potential for doing anything else.
giorgio
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland32 Posts
February 14 2012 20:06 GMT
#132
Anyway this is for balance korean server, no other ! Playing terran late game is extemly hard, one mistake and you loose ! Playing toss ? Just warp unit any where u want,a move + storm. Zerg ? Just camping all game until u have 85 drones then spam units a move. Terran ? Micro, macro all game but still losing to a move.
Shinespark
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile843 Posts
February 14 2012 20:07 GMT
#133
Regardless of how well thought out and written this is, I highly doubt Blizzard takes posts like this in consideration, ever. Sorry qxc T.T
"I, for one, welcome our new Korean overlords."
Mikelius
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany517 Posts
February 14 2012 20:10 GMT
#134
Coming from a Protoss player, I have no qualms with giving snipe a 50 (-X damage to massive) stat. And I think the 25 base damage is a pretty big nerf.
Less QQ, more PewPew
Jayecks
Profile Joined October 2010
25 Posts
February 14 2012 20:11 GMT
#135
On February 15 2012 03:24 CrtBalorda wrote:
Waw a lot of effor put into this. I completly aggree. A bit wierd that blizzard made this change when they put so much thought into thair balance changes and qxc just comes up with a better solution on state of the game in 5 seconds


Agreement. I would really like to hear a valid counter-argument on their part. It even seems that implementing his solution (raising base slightly and adding a -massive modifier) is just as simple as their solution (lowering the damage and adding +psionic modifier).
bogderpirat
Profile Joined April 2011
Jordan66 Posts
February 14 2012 20:11 GMT
#136
On February 15 2012 03:10 qxc wrote:
Instead of 25 +25 to Psionic make ghosts do 50 base damage with some reduced amount vs. massive

bfffwahahaahhaahahahaha you troll
if khaldor had boobs, i'd hit him
Zildjianeer
Profile Joined April 2011
United States15 Posts
February 14 2012 20:12 GMT
#137
Excellent Post. I sure hope Blizzard is not set in stone on this and is taking into account such reasonable propositions as this. Thank you qxc for your well-reasoned and well-articulated post.
TheLindyHop
Profile Joined March 2011
United States51 Posts
February 14 2012 20:12 GMT
#138
On February 15 2012 04:57 kigo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 04:56 TheLindyHop wrote:
You make some good points... but similar arguments were made when the infestor NP range was nerfed.




you cant compare that ALL. and besides the nerf of the NP range was quite less heavier than the nerf of the ghost, or did NP range got cut in half?



-lol-


Sorry, I should have elaborated.

I mean, that NP is rarely used anymore, cause everything a zerg normally wants to NP, is too far out of range.

There are of course other situations that I'd like to see more, such as NPing Immortals, and Archons, and such.
Starcraft is hard >_<
Zorgaz
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2951 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 20:13:13
February 14 2012 20:12 GMT
#139
Yeah it's been said before but i wholly agree.

This would be SO much better dammit. If they nerf snipe like they proposed i will never be able to open ghosts in TvT again !?

Snipe has ONLY proved to be a little too good against BL/Ultralisks. Don't see why you would want to make it bad against almost everything?

Really nice written QXC
Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random/Zorg-Dota2) Guineapigs <3
Paincarnate
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
115 Posts
February 14 2012 20:14 GMT
#140
Can you fix the replay link? It appears to be removed :<

Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 36 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AllThingsProtoss
11:00
Team League - Quarterfinals
Gemini_1971
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 47441
Horang2 9594
EffOrt 1081
actioN 568
Pusan 547
Nal_rA 380
Last 357
Dewaltoss 271
ggaemo 151
Aegong 122
[ Show more ]
Mind 108
PianO 94
Barracks 75
Hyun 62
Sea.KH 59
sSak 47
Shinee 40
Backho 34
soO 32
yabsab 30
Sacsri 26
sorry 20
Icarus 18
HiyA 17
Movie 17
zelot 8
eros_byul 1
Dota 2
Gorgc6653
Dendi1897
XBOCT727
XcaliburYe462
Counter-Strike
edward565
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King145
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor355
Other Games
B2W.Neo3502
Beastyqt470
DeMusliM387
Fuzer 244
crisheroes194
ArmadaUGS110
ToD38
BRAT_OK 35
MindelVK11
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH354
• Dystopia_ 2
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RaNgeD 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV896
League of Legends
• Jankos1216
• Stunt797
Upcoming Events
Road to EWC
1h 44m
BSL: ProLeague
5h 44m
Cross vs TT1
spx vs Hawk
JDConan vs TBD
Wardi Open
22h 44m
SOOP
1d 19h
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
2 days
Online Event
3 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
HupCup
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL Code S
3 days
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Online Event
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
YSL S1
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.