Would you tell a white lie if it meant you'd get $600.00?
I sold cars for close to 4 years in my early 20's. We used to tell ourselves that it was our job to sell the car for as much as possible, and it was the customer's job to buy the car for as little as possible. "It's not my fault if I'm better at my job than they are at theirs." This was our go to reasoning behind what we did.
When you sell cars, you go through training where you are taught the "Road to a Sale." The Road to a Sale is a series of steps to guide you, the salesman, through the process. One of the most important things you learn is that people buy from someone they:
1. Know 2. Like 3. Trust
The Road to a Sale taught you how to get complete strangers to know, like, and trust you. I was pretty good at getting people to like and trust me.
What they didn't prepare me for was the look in a widow woman's eyes who had just lost her husband of 50 years to cancer. This particular woman was in extreme financial distress with the cost of her now deceased husband's medical bills and funeral expenses. She was having to trade in her Buick for a smaller, more economical car to be able to make the payments on her debt. She had never made a major purchase on her own before.
Before committing to the deal I was offering her, she looked across the desk and asked me, "Am I getting a good deal?" When they ask you if it's a good deal you know they trust you. I had her. What she didn't know was that I was selling the new car for $2,000 over sticker. Her trade was estimated to be worth $11,000. but we were only going to give her $9,000. for it. That meant we were making $4,000. above MSRP.
As she asked me that question, "Am I getting a good deal" I had a choice to make. Help a widow woman out in her time of need or lie to her and bring home an extra $600. I chose the latter. I remember telling myself that I had no reason to feel bad about it. I had a family and a newborn baby to think of. "I'm only doing my job." "If I hadn't done it, someone else would have." The next morning all the bosses took me out to breakfast and patted me on the back. They said I was a shark and on the fast track.
She called the dealership later the next day, crying. Her son had explained to her how we took advantage of her. She wanted out of the deal. Because the banks normally only loan 115% of the value of car we hadn't actually gotten the deal financed yet. She could have gotten out of the deal if she had known this. I listened to that widow woman crying on the phone and pleading with me to just let her out of the deal. I lied again and said there was nothing I could do about it. I read her obituary 3 weeks later.
The effect that deal had on me is hard to describe. I couldn't live with myself, and even cried in my wife's arms more than one night over it. It sent me into depression. I couldn't bring myself to keep doing what I had been doing and eventually I wasn't able to make enough money selling cars to feed my family and pay the bills. I was on the verge of homelessness.
You see, I had abandoned my moral principles. I had become something I hated. I should have helped that woman, but instead I took advantage of her in her most vulnerable state so I could take home a few extra bucks.
It's really easy for some people to say they'd do this or that for "X" number of dollars. What they don't know is the black hole it leaves inside you when you sell your morality and principles. Until you've felt that, lived with it, looked at yourself in the mirror and been ashamed because of it you can't understand it.
Want to know what selling cars is really like? Watch this video. It was required learning when I entered the biz.(can fast-forward to 2:00 if you want)
hopefully the trolls aren't out for this thread and try to make you feel like shit again over this past experience. Thanks for sharing, was a good read.
Hopefully you learned not to dwell on it anymore tho, i mean really its not your fault what happened to her in the end. I am sure much more things were involved than just a car deal. Who knows what the tipping point for her was, could have very well been something completely different. Meh.
If this is completely a true story, then ... I'm sorry you had to go through that. But ... at the very least, the fact that it effected you so deeply means that you do have a strong sense of morals -- you simply did not follow-through with it at this crucial juncture. For what little comfort it is, you'll come out a stronger person out of it. Or at least, a little bit wiser.
Intense story, but can you clarify what happened when you said "It sent me into depression. I couldn't bring myself to keep doing what I had been doing and eventually I wasn't able to make enough money selling cars to feed my family and pay the bills. I was on the verge of homelessness."?
Was it your depression that made you lose your ability to charm costumers? Did you refuse to even tell white lies anymore (as in lies to people who are not in obvious financial distress) so you sold no cars?
why do you think that you caused her death? sure you ripped her the fuck off but that is not the real reason she died. if bad deals caused deaths then nearly all of america would be gone. look, you feel bad and guilty because you think you had a part in her death by lying to her, but don't get yourself all worked up because you do not have the power to kill someone with a scam deal. even if you gave her the good deal, she would have died.
On January 31 2012 14:28 FinestHour wrote: what happened to you after? are you still on the brink of homelessness?
The details of the last 3 years following that experience are incredibly embarrassing. Leading up to that day, I was proving all the statistics wrong. I was a mid 20's male with no college degree and pushing close to $100k a year. I was even one of the youngest members of the local country club drinking beers with the local doctors and attorneys. We spent most of our money as fast as we were making it.
It took us about 6 months to go completely broke after that event. If it hadn't been for family, we would have certainly been homeless. After we lost our house we moved back to our home town and closer to family. I worked 2 and 3 jobs at a time to put my wife through college. She graduated just this past May and is now a teacher at an inner city school.
I am in my 2nd semester of College now, and my wife is carrying the bulk of the financial load while I go to school full time. We are poor people, but we are getting by. Strangely enough, our relationship is 1000x better today than it was when we were living the "high life." We are poor, but we are happy ^^
Look, I don't really have an idea of how religious you are, but one thing that being a Catholic has taught me that should be applied to everyone's way of life is the idea of forgiveness. In the Catholic faith you are essentially forgiven (in this case sin, but this concept can really be applied to any personal breach of morality if you don't happen to be religious) if you truly regret whatever you did and strive to make yourself a better person afterwards. Long story short, if you truly regret it and wish you could have made amends, don't beat yourself up for it. Live on with your life, and clutch your moral code that much closer to your heart, you came out a better person in the end and that's what really matters.
Good luck man, with both your future endeavors and with your family!
On January 31 2012 14:32 actionbastrd wrote: Was it confirmed suicide? Or something else?
It wasn't suicide. She was an old lady. I don't remember her age, but I remember they had celebrated their 50th wedding anniversiary a couple of weeks prior to her husband passing. I don't know what the cause of death was, but in my mind I believe it was the overwhelming stress of her situation and her heart ache in losing her husband.
On January 31 2012 14:38 Joedaddy wrote: We are poor, but we are happy ^^
Let it go, we all make mistakes. Whether you did the right thing back then doesn't matter anymore, especially if it has served as a cause for you to reassess your life. Glad you two are happy, wish you a bright future.
On January 31 2012 14:34 HardMacro wrote: Intense story, but can you clarify what happened when you said "It sent me into depression.
Was it your depression that made you lose your ability to charm costumers? Did you refuse to even tell white lies anymore (as in lies to people who are not in obvious financial distress) so you sold no cars?
I got to where I hated myself. I didn't want to be around people anymore. I didn't want to go to work anymore, but I had set a lifestyle around the income I had been making and couldn't afford not to go to work. My depression made me lose my ability to charm customers, yes. If you can't get people to like and trust you, then you won't sell many cars. I tried to keep telling the white lies because without them its border line impossible to sell cars with enough profit to make enough commission to pay your bills. My heart just wasn't in it though. I lost that edge and ability to make people believe what I was saying. I lost the desire to even want to have the ability to make people believe what I was saying.
I'm not sure that answers your question, but I hope it helps.
Why would you hate yourself for someone else's stupidity? You didn't do anything wrong at all. Yah, you could've helped her out, but that's not your job and if she wanted charity the last place she should be going is a car dealership. If you start on the track of feeling bad for other people being dumb you'll of course be absolutely miserable. Why? Cause the world is full of morons and fuckups. That's just the way it is. It doesn't matter what the person looks like: old, young, male, female, short, tall, brown, purple, polka dots who cares? It's about whether they are wise enough to look out for themselves or not.
You didn't abandon moral principles. Moral principles are not using violence or coercion to get what you want. This has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with you trying to live other people's lives for them. Don't do it. Live your own life. There will always be winners and losers and that's just how things go. Being an adult is accepting that.
Very well written, I definitely had a strong sense of empathy as I've had to lie to customers at a past job, although nothing quite like that. 5 Star blog, thanks for sharing your experience and giving me some food for thought.
On January 31 2012 14:18 Joedaddy wrote: Would you tell a white lie if it meant you'd get $600.00?
I sold cars for close to 4 years in my early 20's. We used to tell ourselves that it was our job to sell the car for as much as possible, and it was the customer's job to buy the car for as little as possible. "It's not my fault if I'm better at my job than they are at theirs." This was our go to reasoning behind what we did.
When you sell cars, you go through training where you are taught the "Road to a Sale." The Road to a Sale is a series of steps to guide you, the salesman, through the process. One of the most important things you learn is that people buy from someone they:
1. Know 2. Like 3. Trust
The Road to a Sale taught you how to get complete strangers to know, like, and trust you. I was pretty good at getting people to like and trust me.
What they didn't prepare me for was the look in a widow woman's eyes who had just lost her husband of 50 years to cancer. This particular woman was in extreme financial distress with the cost of her now deceased husband's medical bills and funeral expenses. She was having to trade in her Buick for a smaller, more economical car to be able to make the payments on her debt. She had never made a major purchase on her own before.
Before committing to the deal I was offering her, she looked across the desk and asked me, "Am I getting a good deal?" When they ask you if it's a good deal you know they trust you. I had her. What she didn't know was that I was selling the new car for $2,000 over sticker. Her trade was estimated to be worth $11,000. but we were only going to give her $9,000. for it. That meant we were making $4,000. above MSRP.
As she asked me that question, "Am I getting a good deal" I had a choice to make. Help a widow woman out in her time of need or lie to her and bring home an extra $600. I chose the latter. I remember telling myself that I had no reason to feel bad about it. I had a family and a newborn baby to think of. "I'm only doing my job." "If I hadn't done it, someone else would have." The next morning all the bosses took me out to breakfast and patted me on the back. They said I was a shark and on the fast track.
She called the dealership later the next day, crying. Her son had explained to her how we took advantage of her. She wanted out of the deal. Because the banks normally only loan 115% of the value of car we hadn't actually gotten the deal financed yet. She could have gotten out of the deal if she had known this. I listened to that widow woman crying on the phone and pleading with me to just let her out of the deal. I lied again and said there was nothing I could do about it. I read her obituary 3 weeks later.
The effect that deal had on me is hard to describe. I couldn't live with myself, and even cried in my wife's arms more than one night over it. It sent me into depression. I couldn't bring myself to keep doing what I had been doing and eventually I wasn't able to make enough money selling cars to feed my family and pay the bills. I was on the verge of homelessness.
You see, I had abandoned my moral principles. I had become something I hated. I should have helped that woman, but instead I took advantage of her in her most vulnerable state so I could take home a few extra bucks.
It's really easy for some people to say they'd do this or that for "X" number of dollars. What they don't know is the black hole it leaves inside you when you sell your morality and principles. Until you've felt that, lived with it, looked at yourself in the mirror and been ashamed because of it you can't understand it.
I had posted this just a bit ago in a thread about "Do morals have a price in life." I have never shared this story with anyone but my wife, but felt compelled to share it now and didn't want it to get lost in the thread. If mods feel that it shouldn't be in a blog, please feel free to remove it. Thanks~
Hey man, apparently it affected you to the brink of homelessness. There's some good in that - you can still feel for another human being, despite what you did. Whether it was right or wrong, it was your job. You had mouths to feed. I won't presume to know what she felt before she died, or how she should've felt. But if I were in her place I would forgive you.
I hope you can find a little bit of consolation in that. I wish you the best. Really! Thanks for sharing.
On January 31 2012 15:11 domane wrote: I think there is a typo (bank loan 115% of the car's value). Were there any repercussions from the deceased's son?
All in all, I'm glad that things are slowly getting better for you. I prefer this development over you being homeless.
Hmm, do you mean the "115%" ? If so, its ok. Banks loaned, at that time, up to 120% of the value of a new vehicle. The term "upside down" comes from this practice aka "owing more than its worth."
If that isn't the typo you meant pm me and I will fix it.
wow, that was actually an intense read...every time i see things like these i question if i would be capable of doing what you did or rather if i could be capable of intentionally violating my principles and morals to harm (indirectly counts) another human being...hell it's hard for me to even hate people that fuck me over (sort of a bad trait actually)
i really don't know if i could stand doing that to someone, whether they found out or not it would probably torture me like it did you...only real difference would be that you had emotional support and i don't (well at least for now...can always hope there's someone out there for me :3)
Regret is only good for telling yourself what you will never do again. Once you know which things you will never do again, regret turns into wisdom, and wisdom builds character.
I'm glad things seem to be working out for you and your family. Your story was so powerful, and quite a lesson.
Damn Joedaddy, I'm glad you pulled through a grim part of your life and are now leading a difficult yet happy life with your family, I wish the best of luck to you my friend.
I don't know how much of a factor that you sharking her was in her death, but I do understand that you felt responsible. She was old, just widowed and probably not in such great health-- that's kind of rationalization, but yeah.
You made a mistake. However, you regretted that you did a bad thing, and that means you see what you did wrong. Your morals should be stronger now, and you will not repeat that mistake. I don't subscribe to any particular religion and their code of ethics, but in my own code of ethics, you get a +.
There's no reason to stop your life over one mistake. Keep going and learn from it.
Wow that was intense, lesson learnt I guess. Did you sell her the car in the end after she died? From a pratical standpoint, her death served as a release from all the stress and trials in her life after her husband. Depending on what you believe she's probably with her husband
Hm that sucks I couldn't have done what you did but I highly doubt you were the cause of her death. Pretty sure she would have died anyway as I am pretty sure the death of her husband is what probably caused her to die 3 weeks later (well from what I have read before on stories of old couples who have loved eachother for their whole lives the other seemed to always die within a few months after their spouse died I don't know if the study I read was true or couincedance but I do believe if you truly loved someone your whole life like 50+ years and they die you will most likely die within a few months).
The guilt is a reflection of your good natured character. Personally, while I don't think what you did is morally 'right', I can say that the majority of people in your position, in the same career path would have done the same thing. Your remorse is what separates you from the average person, not the action itself. People like to tell themselves they are morally incorruptible, however this is rarely the case... keep ur chin up your a good man,
On January 31 2012 15:05 EternaLLegacy wrote: Why would you hate yourself for someone else's stupidity? You didn't do anything wrong at all. Yah, you could've helped her out, but that's not your job and if she wanted charity the last place she should be going is a car dealership. If you start on the track of feeling bad for other people being dumb you'll of course be absolutely miserable. Why? Cause the world is full of morons and fuckups. That's just the way it is. It doesn't matter what the person looks like: old, young, male, female, short, tall, brown, purple, polka dots who cares? It's about whether they are wise enough to look out for themselves or not.
You didn't abandon moral principles. Moral principles are not using violence or coercion to get what you want. This has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with you trying to live other people's lives for them. Don't do it. Live your own life. There will always be winners and losers and that's just how things go. Being an adult is accepting that.
this way of thinking reminds me of a news that happened recently, a couple around 15 age was selling 13 yrs old girls as prostitutes and when they were caught, they said something like "the girls are easy to fool and thought they were well paid" strangely similar to your way to be an adult?
I think the important thing to recognize is how much your actions effected you. You said you cried, it still haunts you and what not, this is good. I have worked some job that involved death (wild land fire fighter, old folks home, reading EKG's) and the only time death really got to me in a negative light towards me was when I stopped caring. When people died, I was sad and all that, but then I got to a state where death had 0 effect on me. As long as you are still effected emotionally, you still have decency, try not to fret over it to much and let if effect you.
A really great post, thanks for sharing. Extremely sincere and heartfelt. I know if the widow knew what you had gone through, she'd have also forgiven you by now. ^^
Good post. It shows true strength that you are able to share this story now.
We live in a dog eat dog world. What you did isn't even remotely close to the most unethical business decisions in the world that are made on a daily basis, but how much it has affected you is what counts. Your girlfriend (or wife?) is very lucky to have you. Don't beat yourself up too hard over this. When we're young we don't understand the gravity of some of our actions.
Great blog, it's good to hear that you are doing better. I know people who work jobs whose ethics/morals don't coincide with their own. I never wanna be put in that same situation.
I admire your humanity. At the same time, don't put all the blame on yourself. There are tons and tons of variables in life. Your actions may have contributed to the widow's death. But, I assure you, there were a lot of other things that also contributed to it. You were merely a part of the "dog-eat-dog" world. Let's do our best to make a better world so that no one else has to make such a choice. Thank you for sharing.
Wow that was an intresting read... It's Really messed up how bad you can feel, i would tottaly feel as shit aswell. Recently quited my first job as Door Salesment as I understood we SCAM people 1000% The money was nice but my personality im a nice guy.
3 easy steps SEE S= Smile E= Eye contact E= Enthusiam That could help you seal the deal to a close. If you get alot of NO in my job it meant we could sell things easier and it was proven..
What I will say is ultimately you didn't do anything short of following orders, and as much as i hate to pull this facist phrase from the past, you get paid based on how you rob a typical consumer, the only difference is really and truly, it's legal and it means you're getting paid.
Should your morality be sacrificed? your morality shouldn't even come into question, you work for a business, and the business itself is at fault for doing business in this way.
I worked as a butcher, in a very dirty environment finally closed down due to black mold, as a cleaner, as an employee, and as a salesman the lines of my personal morality were frequently at question, but at the same time, a business is its environment, and a business will run how it sees fit.
>I'm not a mold specialist, and sticking with your story, you're not a saint, and more importantly if she was looking for a good deal, she shouldn't have been at a car lot.
It could have easily been me getting begged for cheaper meat, and me selling this lady infected meat and killing her three weeks later, you're just some random bit of stardust entangled in some meaningless web of self-induced mentality.
I'm not against you wanting to feel bad, but don't confuse yourself with someone compromising morality and directly factoring in the killing of a woman, when in reality she probably was just at her life's logical end, if you would have read that three weeks later she won the lottery would have felt better, or worse? given that you're still working as a car sales man?
When I did inbound customer service for the local natural gas utility I often had to deal with the fallout of unscrupulous door-to-door water heater salesmen who said they were from "the gas company" and they were there to check the safety of the poor saps' water heaters. Deception to get through the door, scare tactics about their water heater not being safe to make the sale, and then relying on people not wanting to go to court to keep the money.
And don't get me started on the door-to-door fixed rate gas contract guys, god damn.
I'd wish you good mental health, OP, but that would honestly be a lie. I hope you always remember what you did and it haunts you.
On February 01 2012 04:05 Jaybles wrote: What I will say is ultimately you didn't do anything short of following orders, and as much as i hate to pull this facist phrase from the past, you get paid based on how you rob a typical consumer, the only difference is really and truly, it's legal and it means you're getting paid.
Should your morality be sacrificed? your morality shouldn't even come into question, you work for a business, and the business itself is at fault for doing business in this way.
I worked as a butcher, in a very dirty environment finally closed down due to black mold, as a cleaner, as an employee, and as a salesman the lines of my personal morality were frequently at question, but at the same time, a business is its environment, and a business will run how it sees fit.
>I'm not a mold specialist, and sticking with your story, you're not a saint, and more importantly if she was looking for a good deal, she shouldn't have been at a car lot.
It could have easily been me getting begged for cheaper meat, and me selling this lady infected meat and killing her three weeks later, you're just some random bit of stardust entangled in some meaningless web of self-induced mentality.
I'm not against you wanting to feel bad, but don't confuse yourself with someone compromising morality and directly factoring in the killing of a woman, when in reality she probably was just at her life's logical end, if you would have read that three weeks later she won the lottery would have felt better, or worse? given that you're still working as a car sales man?
While I agree that what he did probably had little to nothing to with the lady dying, I can't agree with your morality at all. Trying to put the blame on "business practices" is crap. You are responsable for your actions, unless you are under some form of coersion or duress (i.e. being threatened or tortured). Just needing money or just doing a job does not excuse immoral behavior in my book, and I think too many people try to pass blame on to "superiors."
On January 31 2012 14:26 MattBarry wrote: Yeah $600 for damning someone to death is pretty inhumane, I still think most morals have a price, but I'd never kill anyone or be the cause of death.
Well, it's not like he was the direct cause of it. You don't even know if he even contributed. He had no way of knowing that this person would suicide.
Maybe she still would have suicide even if he gave her a better deal. Maybe there were other circumstances.
I feel like you're being a bit harsh on the OP. Yes, he made a questionable choice, but I'm sure he wouldn't have done it if he knew that it would kill her.
You are responsable for your actions, unless you are under some form of coersion or duress (i.e. being threatened or tortured). Just needing money or just doing a job does not excuse immoral behavior in my book, and I think too many people try to pass blame on to "superiors."
nope, you literally are following orders, you are a unit in place of the company the same way if a unit dies in sc2 it's the users fault, those units didn't have any choice, and you can argue all you like about trying to undo certain procedure of a hierarchy, but the world is more than just you.
When you work for a company, you are a part of that unit structure, you purely exist in their environment, it's not in your job description to be an assistance to morality, and if that's the case, you best pay up.
"(i.e. being threatened or tortured)."
>>> may lose your job, without your compliance
>>> may end up being hated by your co-workers for attempting to set a moral high-ground
>>> This is why you don't hear about things until the situation is typically fubar'd. It has happened with nearly every industry in existence in the past four years, so let's neglect ultimately the past 70.
if he hadn't closed the deal the way he did, everyone would have pestered and badgered his ass for being a weak salesman, he literally did it to fit in, hence his guilt in boning over an older woman for money.
Should he feel bad about it? absolutely not, in his line of work this sort of thing is encouraged because it shows you have the initiative and loyalty to the company, you know, the people that sign your checks and keep you well fed.
On January 31 2012 17:40 MightyAtom wrote: A really great post, thanks for sharing. Extremely sincere and heartfelt. I know if the widow knew what you had gone through, she'd have also forgiven you by now. ^^
This was my first thought, ultimately you learned a new lesson, perhaps at a great cost. But it seems you have learned a great lesson, and as you said you are happier now.
I'm having a hard time understanding where you are coming from Joedaddy. I keep trying to put myself in the same situation that you were in and thinking about what I would have done. Every scenario I think of, I can't help but think I would have been able to do what you did without a second thought.
The whole concept of a "fair price" is so abstract. An object's value is only determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Your story makes it sound like the woman was perfectly happy to pay what she was for the vehicle, until she found out that the MSRP was actually much lower; then she was upset. Buyers have a responsibility to research what they are purchacing and determing how much they are willing to pay for what they are getting. If they haven't done that then I can't see why this is anyone's fault but their own.
Also just because she was an old lady doesn't mean she was entirely on the level either, she could have just as easily been giving you an elaborated sob story in the hopes that she could get you to sympathize and give her a lower price. Elderly people are just as prone to ripping people off in deals as are young people (maybe more). Either way, I don't see why this is anything to feel bad about. (As a salesman I would, however, likely be unable to fight the urge to tell customers that they are complete morons. That would probably hurt my sales....)
It sounds to me more like you were in general dissatisfied with how your life was going and possibly you were clinically depressed. I can understand how that would lead you down the path it did. But I hope it's not the incident over the old lady, for all you know she could have had cancer for months before she died.
I use to sell my penis for about that ammount. I never felt any drawback but the occasional hangover. Your depression was useless. You should've kept going. She died. That wasn't your fault. Selling a car doesn't kill people. Especially old sick ones, they die by theirselves.
I can see it from your point of view....you have a family to feed too....and who doesn't want more money....but lying to the woman makes my heart feel uncomfortable.
It was definitely a hard decision man. I feel sorry for you.
It's a 'dog-eat-dog' world and all of us - or at least most of us - are swept by the cruelty as we abide to its practices just to live to see the next day. Okay, that was a longer sentence than what I intended, all I meant was that what you did isn't super evil and you were just doing your job. The fact that you felt such remorse and shame after that probably means you aren't cut out for the car salesman job.
Hope you've found a better job already (or are going to), good luck.
Don't feel about it, if I was you I would've probably done the same thing. Don't feel bad because she died, it's not like you've killed the woman with your own hands, you have your own family to worry about. There's a saying in my country which translates something like this: "The person who eats the meal is not crazy, the person who gives it to him is crazy.". What I mean to say with this is that it's her own fault that she was stupid enough to go and try to sell something when she's uniformed about the thing's real price, she should have consulted with her family or friends before the deal, or asked her son earlier about it.
We all understand and support you, I think everyone of us can relate to this on some sort of level; although this is rather extreme. Glad something was learned in the end.
Edit: not to mention she probably died of heartbreak from her husband, and not anything to do with a car deal. She's with him now anyways
This blog disgusts me, and also reminds me why I hate the world and distrust any ammount of libertarianism and pro-free market advocating. Profiting is what matters, irregardless of consequences or, hell, as this blog has shown, basic humanity. Who cares of the basic living condition of other people - a bonus for me is far more important!
I realise the OP is legitimately sad for what ended up happening, but that's also a sickening part - if she hadn't returned or realised she'd been scammed, if she didn't end up dead, chances are, you'd not give this much thought. At that point though, you'd already made the gravest social transgression against another human - deliberately exploiting their trust in you for financial gain at the cost of them.
People often forget the repercussions their actions have on themself. On their "soul" or whatever you want to call it. If you could kill someone without anyone knowing and a zero chance of being caught, you would still be a murderer because you would know. I think it was is some martial arts context that I read/heard an aphorism along the lines of "the sword does as much damage to the one that strikes as to the one that is struck". Assuming a normal amount of empathy, I have found that to be mostly true. People develope mechanisms to forget/rationalize/justify their actions, but most often there are still negative feelings about "bad" deeds. Call it karma if you will. A friend of mine once told me a (somewhat braging) story of him beating up some asshole that "deserved it" but years later he confided in me that he still sees that guys bloody face in front of him sometimes.
A good reason why many people don't like car salesmen or going to the dealership. Anyway, the widow really should have gone with someone who knows the deal and can negotiate. She brought it upon herself. Rule number 1 when it comes to me: never trust a car salesman you don't know. Rule number 2: do your damn homework and shop around.
In fact I only buy/lease cars from people I know very well and when I say very well I mean it's a relative who owns a dealership. That way I know I'm getting the best deal possible.
Anyway, you did nothing wrong. It's your job to get the highest price point. If your conscience is eating away at you it might be time for another job, but considering your situation you need the money.
Doesn't mean you cannot look around when you're off. You can still search while working.
Sales is tough. I couldn't do it. I used to work at Good Guys (Kinda like a bestbuy) and sell computers. My problem was I would always tell people if there was a better deal at another store! I just couldn't bring myself to take advantage of people and sadly, that is really what sales is all about.
On February 02 2012 01:32 plated.rawr wrote: This blog disgusts me, and also reminds me why I hate the world and distrust any ammount of libertarianism and pro-free market advocating. Profiting is what matters, irregardless of consequences or, hell, as this blog has shown, basic humanity. Who cares of the basic living condition of other people - a bonus for me is far more important!
I realise the OP is legitimately sad for what ended up happening, but that's also a sickening part - if she hadn't returned or realised she'd been scammed, if she didn't end up dead, chances are, you'd not give this much thought. At that point though, you'd already made the gravest social transgression against another human - deliberately exploiting their trust in you for financial gain at the cost of them.
Bah.
I totally understand what you're saying. I can't defend what I did, but I can tell you that the guilt, remorse, and moral conflict was not a result of her "finding out." I was pressured by my own financial obligations to my family and my desire to climb the proverbial ladder.
I had just bought a brand new 2012 black Nissan Versa for $300 a month (including all the extended warranty crap and stuff).
It was the first time I bought my own car. Luckily I went with my boss and a co-worker. They were both women. I know this may sound sexist, but car dealers are known to try to take advantage of women more than men because they may think they don't know much about cars in detail.
Well funny enough my boss is a tomboy. She was raised around guys her whole life so when we were checking out some used cars she DESTROYED the car salesmen. She popped the hood and gave the car salesman a verbal ass whipping. She was checking everything under the hood, the inside interior, exterior, exhaust pipe, and everything. I could tell the car salesman was mad because I didn't come by myself.
So after numerous used car salesmen trying to rob me... I said fuck it and bought a brand new car. I probably could of got a lot cheaper, but me and another co-worker haggled as much as we could. Haha my coworker said "You need women like us to have your back." The finance manager was mad that I had brought someone into the office for the final contract, but it's always good to have a 2nd person looking in from the outside to make sure you aren't raping yourself in price.
I understand car salesmen have to make a living, but the buyer has to make a living too so BE SMART and do your research before you go into a dealership. I fought like crazy to get my price range down.
PS: Oh yeah I just now remembered, these little girls were selling girl scouts cookies. In a way I feel like they are con-men. I know you're thinking they're sweet little innocent girls. BULL-FUCKIN SHIT! I politely told the little girl "I'm sorry maybe later."
She replied saying "well you're rude" What the fuck kind of salesman is that? Excuse my language, but I was actually mad, but seeing as how they were just young girls trying to sell cookies for their organization I couldn't really be pissed off at them. It's just the fact that the organization is trying to sucker people into buying overpriced cookies because cute little innocent girls are selling it. I work for a living as well and I don't have the money to be buying cookies every time someone asks me. Does that make me a rude asshole?
There's a WKUK sketch that reminded me of this same situation. We're in a society where we're supposed to be the best and take advantage of one another. However, this can contradict our feelings and lead to problems as a person. I'm sure if this happened to me I would feel awful as well. To all the people in this blog saying they wouldn't feel bad, you'd have to be a real sociopath to not feel guilt considering the circumstances. All you can do though is move on man and not make the same mistakes again. Thanks for sharing this story and good luck to you in the future.
where the main character refuses to help an elderly lady at the bank she works for, meaning she'll lose her house, all because she wants a promotion she's been working hard for.
Just be thankful the old woman you dealt with wasn't a gypsy and you're not in a Sam Raimi film
You know, when I have kids, I'll tell them I would be proud whatever career they choose, as long as they don't become salesman. They can do whatever crummy dirty job they want, but at least they are earning some honest dollars. Whereas (from my experience at least) I have never met an honest salesman. They put on a face and convince you that you want to spend money on some ripoff that you don't need, overloading and scaring you with twisted information. Honest salesman might exist somewhere, but I don't think they'd make it anywhere.
On February 11 2012 17:53 crc wrote: You know, when I have kids, I'll tell them I would be proud whatever career they choose, as long as they don't become salesman. They can do whatever crummy dirty job they want, but at least they are earning some honest dollars. Whereas (from my experience at least) I have never met an honest salesman. They put on a face and convince you that you want to spend money on some ripoff that you don't need, overloading and scaring you with twisted information. Honest salesman might exist somewhere, but I don't think they'd make it anywhere.
I was in sales back in college for too long, and I was legitimate - worked at clothing retailers XYZ (mostly commission based) and when customers that I was helping would ask questions I'd answer truthfully. This is not because I possess some sort of superior moral qualities, but simply because I have to tell them my name (to get the sale registered to me) and I didn't want to taint my own name.
I wasn't the best sales associate, but was above-average empirically speaking in volume of sales; consistently made top 5 out of a team of 50. What I found was that being an honest guy has its own appeals and clients would actually actively seek me out for their shopping experiences. This means repeat customers and great clientele build up. Occasionally, there were times where one of "my" customers would shop while I wasn't working and I'd see sales registered to my name because they wanted to help me out I guess.
Telling the truth or forgetting your role as an S.A and providing real facts goes a long way.
We had belts usually for $200~300 and a few weird customers would ask for a discount on it because they are buying some other stuff with it, which makes no sense as I can't adjust the MSRP as a lowly S.A. However, I would respectfully say it's not within my powers but I do know a place where they sell the exact same belt for $20~30 cheaper. I joke around and say that I shouldn't talk them out of sales and I guess this is where they appreciate honesty. Usually customers are kinda drawn back and give me a WTF-is-this-guy-for-real? face and later realize that I actually helped them which usually translates to increased sales for me. If not, then so be it, but I still get to feel good knowing that I helped out. Win-win.
The fact of the matter is, there are far more ignorant people than people with sensible decision-making skills. Ignorance isn't an excuse and it doesn't discriminates anybody. If you only wish to purchase item X, but walk out the store with X+Y+Z; don't blame cross-selling techniques, don't blame the salesperson, blame yourself. If you know that you don't need something that's marked up 500%, and call BS on the information they provided you - just buy what you need and leave it's not that hard.
On February 11 2012 11:38 Silentness wrote: PS: Oh yeah I just now remembered, these little girls were selling girl scouts cookies. In a way I feel like they are con-men. I know you're thinking they're sweet little innocent girls. BULL-FUCKIN SHIT! I politely told the little girl "I'm sorry maybe later."
She replied saying "well you're rude" What the fuck kind of salesman is that? Excuse my language, but I was actually mad, but seeing as how they were just young girls trying to sell cookies for their organization I couldn't really be pissed off at them. It's just the fact that the organization is trying to sucker people into buying overpriced cookies because cute little innocent girls are selling it. I work for a living as well and I don't have the money to be buying cookies every time someone asks me. Does that make me a rude asshole?
/end rant
Their cookies taste like shit anyway. Tell them to come back with a superior product either in quality or value coupled with improved salesmenship tactics and maybe you'll reconsider.
First of all I hope you are doing alright as seeing your experience being pretty traumatic. Below is just what I feel after reading your blog.
- I guess we'll never know but, why didn't the son come along in the first place and why did he fail to get out his mother out of the deal? - The reasoning, "If I didn't take advantage someone else would've, so why not me?" is pretty messed up IMHO. It's your life and you call the shots and face your own outcomes as a result of your decisions. Not faulting your previous decisions, but I just find that logic really irresponsible. You weren't entirely forced to lie. - She most likely didn't pass away because of the car purchase. It seems like (within my limited knowledge) that she really didn't have a reason to live anymore - debt/husband passing away/possibly more problems. IMHO you can't fault yourself in this aspect because factually we really don't know why she passed away. You are inclined to believe that you had a play in all of this but I'd argue it was minimal.
Lastly,
On January 31 2012 14:18 Joedaddy wrote: It's really easy for some people to say they'd do this or that for "X" number of dollars. What they don't know is the black hole it leaves inside you when you sell your morality and principles. Until you've felt that, lived with it, looked at yourself in the mirror and been ashamed because of it you can't understand it.
My wife was just offered a promotion and a modest raise Looks like we're finally going to get back into a house instead of living in a tiny apartment. I'm really excited that my daughter (she's 5) is finally going to have a back yard again. My 2nd semester of college is a little over 1/2 way done and after may-mester and summer classes (took 19 hours last semester and this semester too + some carry over credits from when I took classes while in the military) I'll only need 1 more semester before moving on to an actual university to finish up my bachelors.
I guess we'll never know but, why didn't the son come along in the first place and why did he fail to get out his mother out of the deal?
- I can't say for sure why the son got involved after the fact rather than before. I lied and told her the deal was done and there was nothing anybody could do to get her out of the deal. If they'd gotten an attorney we would have been up a creek, but 99 times out of 100 the customer never takes it that far so car salesman get away with a lot more than they should just by bluffing.
EPT
