• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:58
CEST 04:58
KST 11:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool51Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group E [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
China Uses Video Games to Sh…
TrAiDoS
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10143 users

Will Online Starcraft tournaments EVER be legit?

Blogs > dacthehork
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-02 05:15:02
January 02 2012 05:01 GMT
#1
This is just an open question to the community. We know SC2 has some very technically well made maphacks that exist and are basically undetectable. I won't go too much but its possible to basically open up a production tab of the opponent, and have a minimap view of their units all in seperate windows.

I have always wondered about the "sanctity" of online events, qualifications, tournaments etc. With tournaments like NASL, TSL3, etc using online as a means to get big matches without the expense and through geographic locations it makes me wonder

Will we ever see a legit online tournament with anti-hack checks through fpv streams or cameras, or even some other novel method?

Im convinced this is one of the reasons TSL4 hasn't happened due to worries of lag and cheats or at least influenced a lot of tournaments not doing online play. I am just wondering if any org will try to make a legit online tournament.

TLDR Cliffs:
Will any tournament have good online play with anti-maphack measures in 2012?

*
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
DigitalSRM
Profile Joined May 2009
United States14 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-02 05:07:00
January 02 2012 05:06 GMT
#2
I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue.
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-02 05:08:12
January 02 2012 05:07 GMT
#3
On January 02 2012 14:06 DigitalSRM wrote:
I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue.

The issue is more or less that you can easily undetected maphack in SC2 while playing online at least if no safeguards are in place from the tournament, not stream watching.

Just saying to clarify.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
DigitalSRM
Profile Joined May 2009
United States14 Posts
January 02 2012 05:09 GMT
#4
On January 02 2012 14:07 dacthehork wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2012 14:06 DigitalSRM wrote:
I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue.

The issue is more or less that you can easily undetected maphack in SC2 while playing online at least if no safeguards are in place from the tournament, not stream watching.

Just saying to clarify.


Just so we're on the same page, how is maphacking made easier if it's online only?
Spray
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States402 Posts
January 02 2012 05:12 GMT
#5
Since when are the online tournaments not legit?
HuK Fighting~~!
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-02 05:14:08
January 02 2012 05:12 GMT
#6
On January 02 2012 14:09 DigitalSRM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2012 14:07 dacthehork wrote:
On January 02 2012 14:06 DigitalSRM wrote:
I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue.

The issue is more or less that you can easily undetected maphack in SC2 while playing online at least if no safeguards are in place from the tournament, not stream watching.

Just saying to clarify.


Just so we're on the same page, how is maphacking made easier if it's online only?


This paper explains in detail. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:iyJDr6KxVR0J:crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/papers/onlinegames.pdf stanford paper maphacking&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjOfwIadppGBTZCI9A8GIXCQgGx95LZX-hgCQkT55VfVjUrCNOC3wErNTwFe2SgGYGg9g1t2gdUs3i6AzBwfPHTsSZv2aq1y4UGfJ1hYCRXWwX1rE4VNV0l7OUOCum-jWyEZTQ_&sig=AHIEtbRxi6HRHeW1tX7s1-6HFSDFIkHo_g basically the gist is games with SC2 type networking design are hackable using undetectable external programs.

basically the way sc2 works with sending everyone all information means that information can be read externally straight from memory and displayed in an external window showing production tab, minimap etc. These cheats do exist in practice too.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
January 02 2012 05:12 GMT
#7
On January 02 2012 14:09 DigitalSRM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2012 14:07 dacthehork wrote:
On January 02 2012 14:06 DigitalSRM wrote:
I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue.

The issue is more or less that you can easily undetected maphack in SC2 while playing online at least if no safeguards are in place from the tournament, not stream watching.

Just saying to clarify.


Just so we're on the same page, how is maphacking made easier if it's online only?


Because no one can see your screen when you're playing online (unless you're streaming), whereas offline people can?
rawb
Profile Joined September 2010
United States252 Posts
January 02 2012 05:14 GMT
#8
I thought that was the entire point of the referree selection in spectator mode.
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
January 02 2012 05:16 GMT
#9
On January 02 2012 14:14 rawb wrote:
I thought that was the entire point of the referree selection in spectator mode.


Its not like broodwar hacks in that you have to basically "check out" the enemy base, even a year ago you could "lock" your camera position briefly to look around the map without a replay or observer noticing. Those are elementary though compared to external windows displaying information.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
DigitalSRM
Profile Joined May 2009
United States14 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-02 05:21:25
January 02 2012 05:20 GMT
#10
How big of a problem is this currently? Especially if the two tournaments you use as examples are NASL and TSL neither of which had any problem with maphacking. Unless your trying to say that there are professional players out their currently using maphacks during tournaments and we as spectators haven't noticed.
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-02 05:26:59
January 02 2012 05:22 GMT
#11
On January 02 2012 14:20 DigitalSRM wrote:
How big of a problem is this currently? Especially if the two tournaments you use as examples are NASL and TSL neither of which had any problem with maphacking. Unless your trying to say that there are professional players out their currently using maphacks during tournaments and we as spectators haven't noticed.


No this has nothing to do with people maphacking or not as that is a silly subject that would spiral the thread out of control.

It has to do with the fact it's possible and undetectable. IF ANYONE knows anything about the history of competitive online play, if its possible well... Also this is not a "new" subject. Im just wondering if these online tournaments will start to ever go "legit" by making it impossible through some means which are available to them.

I dont this matters much to korean teams for obvious reasons though.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
DigitalSRM
Profile Joined May 2009
United States14 Posts
January 02 2012 05:26 GMT
#12
On January 02 2012 14:22 dacthehork wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2012 14:20 DigitalSRM wrote:
How big of a problem is this currently? Especially if the two tournaments you use as examples are NASL and TSL neither of which had any problem with maphacking. Unless your trying to say that there are professional players out their currently using maphacks during tournaments and we as spectators haven't noticed.


No this has nothing to do with people maphacking or not as that is a silly subject that would spiral the thread out of control.

It has to do with the fact it's possible and undetectable. IF ANYONE knows anything about the history of competitive online play, if its possible well... Also this is not a "new" subject. Im just wondering if these online tournaments will start to ever go "legit" by making it impossible through some means which are available to them.


I would argue that it has a lot to do with the subject. The question you're asking is whether or not tournaments that are run online could ever be considered legit due to the possibility of maphacks being used. However this also has the assumption in it that online tournaments haven't been legit in the first place meaning that it would have to be a problem already.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
January 02 2012 05:27 GMT
#13
Typically, online tournaments are just smaller and the players just don't prepare for it as much. There's also cross server latency issues. Imagine if there was 200 ms in LANs for one player; it'd be considered a joke and the winner would not receive as much credit.
UndoneJin
Profile Joined February 2011
United States438 Posts
January 02 2012 05:28 GMT
#14
I think it's unfair to say that online tournaments aren't "legit," but there is an opportunity to cheat. Certainly, down the road a real solution would be great, but I'm sure there would be ways around that too.

It's always going to be an issue, but hopefully when your dealing with reputable teams and players, this kind of thing would be minimal.
I've been lost since the day I was born ----- You're gonna carry that weight
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
January 02 2012 05:28 GMT
#15
On January 02 2012 14:26 DigitalSRM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2012 14:22 dacthehork wrote:
On January 02 2012 14:20 DigitalSRM wrote:
How big of a problem is this currently? Especially if the two tournaments you use as examples are NASL and TSL neither of which had any problem with maphacking. Unless your trying to say that there are professional players out their currently using maphacks during tournaments and we as spectators haven't noticed.


No this has nothing to do with people maphacking or not as that is a silly subject that would spiral the thread out of control.

It has to do with the fact it's possible and undetectable. IF ANYONE knows anything about the history of competitive online play, if its possible well... Also this is not a "new" subject. Im just wondering if these online tournaments will start to ever go "legit" by making it impossible through some means which are available to them.


I would argue that it has a lot to do with the subject. The question you're asking is whether or not tournaments that are run online could ever be considered legit due to the possibility of maphacks being used. However this also has the assumption in it that online tournaments haven't been legit in the first place meaning that it would have to be a problem already.


No.

The maphacks are undetectable
Meaning to provide proof or "omg someone is maphacking" would be purely speculative and will always remain so unless someone does a huge blunder.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-02 05:30:18
January 02 2012 05:28 GMT
#16
On January 02 2012 14:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Typically, online tournaments are just smaller and the players just don't prepare for it as much. There's also cross server latency issues. Imagine if there was 200 ms in LANs for one player; it'd be considered a joke and the winner would not receive as much credit.


many tournaments have had lag problems. There is no lan in SC2.
I believe a lot of players have even mentioned lag at GSLs/MLGs/Blizzcons etc.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
Bigtony
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1606 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-02 05:36:19
January 02 2012 05:35 GMT
#17
It's a valid question and it's only a matter of time before someone gets caught being suspicious in an online cup or something. But actual pros? The kind of tournaments this would affect have small prize pools. Anyone who is sponsored or who has a good streaming fanbase wouldn't risk that for a $200-$500 online cup.

There's also the fact that even with "maphacks" used against them, there are extremely good players who would still beat the hackers (even with maphacks, a bad player will not beat an elite pro).
Push 2 Harder
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
January 02 2012 05:43 GMT
#18
On January 02 2012 14:28 dacthehork wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2012 14:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Typically, online tournaments are just smaller and the players just don't prepare for it as much. There's also cross server latency issues. Imagine if there was 200 ms in LANs for one player; it'd be considered a joke and the winner would not receive as much credit.


many tournaments have had lag problems. There is no lan in SC2.
I believe a lot of players have even mentioned lag at GSLs/MLGs/Blizzcons etc.

Of course there's technical difficulties, but they eventually get resolved if it's bad. Ping delay is something you can't get rid of and persists consistently throughout the entire tournament.
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
January 02 2012 05:45 GMT
#19
On January 02 2012 14:35 Bigtony wrote:
It's a valid question and it's only a matter of time before someone gets caught being suspicious in an online cup or something. But actual pros? The kind of tournaments this would affect have small prize pools. Anyone who is sponsored or who has a good streaming fanbase wouldn't risk that for a $200-$500 online cup.

There's also the fact that even with "maphacks" used against them, there are extremely good players who would still beat the hackers (even with maphacks, a bad player will not beat an elite pro).


I don't know Sc2 has less mechanical skill to the point a maphack would give someone A humongous advantage. Just saying. Yes it does only apply to online tournaments and ladder though.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
antilyon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Brazil2546 Posts
January 02 2012 05:47 GMT
#20
As long as it is well produced or live, I think it's valid.
TSL, KSL and ESV weekly cup is the ones I'd choose as a argument.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft347
RuFF_SC2 177
WinterStarcraft168
ProTech117
ROOTCatZ 60
Ketroc 55
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5569
ggaemo 110
Nal_rA 90
NaDa 22
Bale 21
Noble 20
Shinee 15
Dota 2
monkeys_forever596
NeuroSwarm104
League of Legends
JimRising 660
Counter-Strike
tarik_tv4913
m0e_tv334
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor126
Other Games
summit1g17904
Artosis446
ViBE96
C9.Mang043
Nina28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1064
BasetradeTV166
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH179
• Hupsaiya 121
• davetesta18
• Light_VIP 14
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki17
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4141
• Lourlo655
Other Games
• Scarra523
• Shiphtur137
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
7h 2m
Wardi Open
7h 2m
Replay Cast
21h 2m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 7h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL
5 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.