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This is just an open question to the community. We know SC2 has some very technically well made maphacks that exist and are basically undetectable. I won't go too much but its possible to basically open up a production tab of the opponent, and have a minimap view of their units all in seperate windows.
I have always wondered about the "sanctity" of online events, qualifications, tournaments etc. With tournaments like NASL, TSL3, etc using online as a means to get big matches without the expense and through geographic locations it makes me wonder
Will we ever see a legit online tournament with anti-hack checks through fpv streams or cameras, or even some other novel method?
Im convinced this is one of the reasons TSL4 hasn't happened due to worries of lag and cheats or at least influenced a lot of tournaments not doing online play. I am just wondering if any org will try to make a legit online tournament.
TLDR Cliffs:
Will any tournament have good online play with anti-maphack measures in 2012?
 
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I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue.
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On January 02 2012 14:06 DigitalSRM wrote:
I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue.
The issue is more or less that you can easily undetected maphack in SC2 while playing online at least if no safeguards are in place from the tournament, not stream watching.
Just saying to clarify.
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On January 02 2012 14:07 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 14:06 DigitalSRM wrote:
I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue. The issue is more or less that you can easily undetected maphack in SC2 while playing online at least if no safeguards are in place from the tournament, not stream watching. Just saying to clarify.
Just so we're on the same page, how is maphacking made easier if it's online only?
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Since when are the online tournaments not legit?
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On January 02 2012 14:09 DigitalSRM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 14:07 dacthehork wrote:On January 02 2012 14:06 DigitalSRM wrote:
I'm pretty sure that TSL4 hasn't happened because they dont want to yet, has nothing to do with online only. Also tournaments like NASL and TSL are casted from replays so stream cheating isnt an issue. The issue is more or less that you can easily undetected maphack in SC2 while playing online at least if no safeguards are in place from the tournament, not stream watching. Just saying to clarify. Just so we're on the same page, how is maphacking made easier if it's online only?
Because no one can see your screen when you're playing online (unless you're streaming), whereas offline people can?
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United States252 Posts
I thought that was the entire point of the referree selection in spectator mode.
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On January 02 2012 14:14 rawb wrote:
I thought that was the entire point of the referree selection in spectator mode.
Its not like broodwar hacks in that you have to basically "check out" the enemy base, even a year ago you could "lock" your camera position briefly to look around the map without a replay or observer noticing. Those are elementary though compared to external windows displaying information.
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How big of a problem is this currently? Especially if the two tournaments you use as examples are NASL and TSL neither of which had any problem with maphacking. Unless your trying to say that there are professional players out their currently using maphacks during tournaments and we as spectators haven't noticed.
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On January 02 2012 14:20 DigitalSRM wrote:
How big of a problem is this currently? Especially if the two tournaments you use as examples are NASL and TSL neither of which had any problem with maphacking. Unless your trying to say that there are professional players out their currently using maphacks during tournaments and we as spectators haven't noticed.
No this has nothing to do with people maphacking or not as that is a silly subject that would spiral the thread out of control.
It has to do with the fact it's possible and undetectable. IF ANYONE knows anything about the history of competitive online play, if its possible well... Also this is not a "new" subject. Im just wondering if these online tournaments will start to ever go "legit" by making it impossible through some means which are available to them.
I dont this matters much to korean teams for obvious reasons though.
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On January 02 2012 14:22 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 14:20 DigitalSRM wrote:
How big of a problem is this currently? Especially if the two tournaments you use as examples are NASL and TSL neither of which had any problem with maphacking. Unless your trying to say that there are professional players out their currently using maphacks during tournaments and we as spectators haven't noticed. No this has nothing to do with people maphacking or not as that is a silly subject that would spiral the thread out of control. It has to do with the fact it's possible and undetectable. IF ANYONE knows anything about the history of competitive online play, if its possible well... Also this is not a "new" subject. Im just wondering if these online tournaments will start to ever go "legit" by making it impossible through some means which are available to them.
I would argue that it has a lot to do with the subject. The question you're asking is whether or not tournaments that are run online could ever be considered legit due to the possibility of maphacks being used. However this also has the assumption in it that online tournaments haven't been legit in the first place meaning that it would have to be a problem already.
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Typically, online tournaments are just smaller and the players just don't prepare for it as much. There's also cross server latency issues. Imagine if there was 200 ms in LANs for one player; it'd be considered a joke and the winner would not receive as much credit.
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I think it's unfair to say that online tournaments aren't "legit," but there is an opportunity to cheat. Certainly, down the road a real solution would be great, but I'm sure there would be ways around that too.
It's always going to be an issue, but hopefully when your dealing with reputable teams and players, this kind of thing would be minimal.
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On January 02 2012 14:26 DigitalSRM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 14:22 dacthehork wrote:On January 02 2012 14:20 DigitalSRM wrote:
How big of a problem is this currently? Especially if the two tournaments you use as examples are NASL and TSL neither of which had any problem with maphacking. Unless your trying to say that there are professional players out their currently using maphacks during tournaments and we as spectators haven't noticed. No this has nothing to do with people maphacking or not as that is a silly subject that would spiral the thread out of control. It has to do with the fact it's possible and undetectable. IF ANYONE knows anything about the history of competitive online play, if its possible well... Also this is not a "new" subject. Im just wondering if these online tournaments will start to ever go "legit" by making it impossible through some means which are available to them. I would argue that it has a lot to do with the subject. The question you're asking is whether or not tournaments that are run online could ever be considered legit due to the possibility of maphacks being used. However this also has the assumption in it that online tournaments haven't been legit in the first place meaning that it would have to be a problem already.
No.
The maphacks are undetectable
Meaning to provide proof or "omg someone is maphacking" would be purely speculative and will always remain so unless someone does a huge blunder.
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On January 02 2012 14:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Typically, online tournaments are just smaller and the players just don't prepare for it as much. There's also cross server latency issues. Imagine if there was 200 ms in LANs for one player; it'd be considered a joke and the winner would not receive as much credit.
many tournaments have had lag problems. There is no lan in SC2.
I believe a lot of players have even mentioned lag at GSLs/MLGs/Blizzcons etc.
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It's a valid question and it's only a matter of time before someone gets caught being suspicious in an online cup or something. But actual pros? The kind of tournaments this would affect have small prize pools. Anyone who is sponsored or who has a good streaming fanbase wouldn't risk that for a $200-$500 online cup.
There's also the fact that even with "maphacks" used against them, there are extremely good players who would still beat the hackers (even with maphacks, a bad player will not beat an elite pro).
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On January 02 2012 14:28 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 14:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Typically, online tournaments are just smaller and the players just don't prepare for it as much. There's also cross server latency issues. Imagine if there was 200 ms in LANs for one player; it'd be considered a joke and the winner would not receive as much credit. many tournaments have had lag problems. There is no lan in SC2. I believe a lot of players have even mentioned lag at GSLs/MLGs/Blizzcons etc.
Of course there's technical difficulties, but they eventually get resolved if it's bad. Ping delay is something you can't get rid of and persists consistently throughout the entire tournament.
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On January 02 2012 14:35 Bigtony wrote:
It's a valid question and it's only a matter of time before someone gets caught being suspicious in an online cup or something. But actual pros? The kind of tournaments this would affect have small prize pools. Anyone who is sponsored or who has a good streaming fanbase wouldn't risk that for a $200-$500 online cup.
There's also the fact that even with "maphacks" used against them, there are extremely good players who would still beat the hackers (even with maphacks, a bad player will not beat an elite pro).
I don't know Sc2 has less mechanical skill to the point a maphack would give someone A humongous advantage. Just saying. Yes it does only apply to online tournaments and ladder though.
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As long as it is well produced or live, I think it's valid.
TSL, KSL and ESV weekly cup is the ones I'd choose as a argument.
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EPT
