EPTYou should be able to get out of silver.
The Macro Better Myth? - Page 2
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SnowFantasy
4173 Posts
You should be able to get out of silver. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
On December 27 2011 18:00 inbox24 wrote: I pushed at the 14 minute mark with about 110 marines If you're going to just make marines why not push WAY earlier when marines have a chance? | ||
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inbox24
Australia344 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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d00fuz
Malaysia129 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
Also, you won't be able to win every game with it - plat and diamond are realistic targets though. Although, I'm quite tempted to just make marines and a-move as terran and see how far my master-level mechanics take me. | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Yeah you can't just skip gas and max out at 14 minutes on marines. I mean you can, you just won't win if they happen to make sentries, colossus, HT or archons lol | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On December 27 2011 18:47 inbox24 wrote: What do you mean? I'm not trolling at all. Just wanted your opinions on it that's all. I seriously heard from the internet that just a-moving with 'perfect' macro would get you up from silver and gold at the very least. Now I'm not claiming to have perfect macro but my opponent was floating in the thousands I think. Yeah, but when people say that they mean you have to macro up only SCVs. Why spend all that money on Barracks? Just spend them on more Command Centers and SCVs. Eventually you can overwhelm Silver level players with just SCVs. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On December 27 2011 18:47 inbox24 wrote: What do you mean? I'm not trolling at all. Just wanted your opinions on it that's all. I seriously heard from the internet that just a-moving with 'perfect' macro would get you up from silver and gold at the very least. Now I'm not claiming to have perfect macro but my opponent was floating in the thousands I think. You know, you can also have a perfect macro, never having more than 100 minerals in stock and build pure SCVs and no army ? Is that gonna win you games ? I let you guess the answer. PS : Let me know if you need a hint. In the case you're really not trolling, let me give you a very simple math analogy. We usually advice beginners to focus on macro, because of how important it is compared to other aspects of the game at low levels. We could define (arbitrary formula by myself) efficiency by : efficiency = Macro^3 * Unit compo * 0.5 decision-making * sqrt(Micro). You can have an awesome macro, if the rest equals 0, then your efficiency = 0. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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inbox24
Australia344 Posts
That being said, do you think mass marauders (with upgrades) would work against Protoss in the same way that mass stalkers would as mentioned by Azzur? | ||
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
At 14:40, when you are maxed and move out, you have four mining bases. Your main has a reasonable amount of minerals left so you have four full potential mining bases. To have good saturation, you need between 16-24 workers at each mineral line. At that time point, your 4 bases have: 7/22/41/5 workers. This is the equivalent of having 2 bases mining. The protoss has only 2 bases, but full saturation at both of them, including the gases. The income rates are 1900/0 and 1420/448 for the two of you. Essentially, you really didn't have a better economy than your opponent. In order to legitimately beat someone going mineral only and without micro, you have to have like double their economy or something. At best, you had an economy about 30% better than his, but that's forgetting the gas. When you include the gas rate, you two have identical economies. And since his units also use gas, his army is far superior to yours in efficiency. You lose your entire army in the worst choke possible. Honestly, if you had just move commanded into his main and forgot about your army you would have had a better engagement. After the battle, you don't have a superior economy so you are crushed since you cannot reinforce. tl;dr You actually had a crap economy and macro | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On December 27 2011 19:03 Probe1 wrote: That's a really cute formula endy ^_^ Thanks ! I think it can describe where to put one's efforts into at low levels pretty well. It also summarizes what everyone has been trying to tell OP but in a clear way, because saying "macro is everything, yet not exactly everything" seems to confuse him. Putting it in a mathematical way is unequivocal. | ||
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inbox24
Australia344 Posts
On December 27 2011 19:08 Emporio wrote: Though I think it's pointless to give another serious reply, you actually didn't really have that good macro during the game. At 14:40, when you are maxed and move out, you have four mining bases. Your main has a reasonable amount of minerals left so you have four full potential mining bases. To have good saturation, you need between 16-24 workers at each mineral line. At that time point, your 4 bases have: 7/22/41/5 workers. This is the equivalent of having 2 bases mining. The protoss has only 2 bases, but full saturation at both of them, including the gases. The income rates are 1900/0 and 1420/448 for the two of you. Essentially, you really didn't have a better economy than your opponent. In order to legitimately beat someone going mineral only and without micro, you have to have like double their economy or something. At best, you had an economy about 30% better than his, but that's forgetting the gas. When you include the gas rate, you two have identical economies. And since his units also use gas, his army is far superior to yours in efficiency. You lose your entire army in the worst choke possible. Honestly, if you had just move commanded into his main and forgot about your army you would have had a better engagement. After the battle, you don't have a superior economy so you are crushed since you cannot reinforce. tl;dr You actually had a crap economy and macro But the thing is for the 'important' part of the game, that is, getting to be maxed, I had closer to max saturation on 3 bases. It was only after I got maxed I thought I could effectively now ignore my SCV building and saturation and just A click and win the game. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Getting to max isn't important. Getting to 200/200 is a byproduct of having a great economy to support units and upgrades for the units. Macro or die means spend minerals into more minerals via more workers, more CCs and more production. | ||
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
On December 27 2011 19:12 inbox24 wrote: But the thing is for the 'important' part of the game, that is, getting to be maxed, I had closer to max saturation on 3 bases. It was only after I got maxed I thought I could effectively now ignore my SCV building and saturation and just A click and win the game. Absolutely not. The important part of the mineral drill is to have an overwhelming economy so that you can have terrible engagements and still win because you are making so many marines it doesn't matter how terribly you are trading them. You can ignore making SCV's when you are maxed but if you saturate badly, you might as well have no SCV's. If you rewatch the videos, he does a very good job of making sure he always has good saturation on all his bases and expanding when he doesn't. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
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