On December 16 2011 00:25 kirdie wrote: I don't agree, I prefer him to not lie to people and pretend to want to win with a 4 gate but make it clear - does no one value honesty anymore?
I don't understand this logic. I go to a restaurant, and for some reason the waiter does not like me. I am paying for food and service, and expect a good service. If the waiter treats me like trash, would I be happy and say "I really appreciate you being honest, it would have hurt me if you would have given me a fake smile"? Fuck no, keep your honesty to yourself, I am here to enjoy myself. The waiter should give as much effort as possible!
I'm sorry but no. I'm sick about all that rumble for nothing. Naniwa did what a lot of progamers did before, in an extreme way yes, but still. The only thing that made people so angry about all that is that Naniwa robbed Nestea - a korean super star - from having his revenge. Koreans' ego is touched, period. If it were a korean who did that, nobody would have talked about it.
And all the shit about the vocation makes me sad, considering what naniwa did to play : he is one of the few players who only care about the game and not other aspect of esports...
I agree what NaNi did is unacceptable and it made me pretty mad and embarassed as foreigner however... what I find a bit hypocritical is EG's COE calling it unacceptable and yet did nothing but a strong talk to Idra after he was in similar situationS(!) (unless I've missed it)... I guess what I'm asking... what does unacceptable really means for alex?
On December 16 2011 01:50 Bleb wrote: I agree what NaNi did is unacceptable and it made me pretty mad and embarassed as foreigner however... what I find a bit hypocritical is EG's COE calling it unacceptable and yet did nothing but a strong talk to Idra after he was in similar situationS(!) (unless I've missed it)... I guess what I'm asking... what does unacceptable really means for alex?
Unacceptable means it should not occur again. How this is enforced is another discussion.
On December 16 2011 01:42 CinnaBuns wrote: Thanks for the post Alex. That's what I've been trying to say (in a less elucidated manner) elsewhere on the forums. It's not a cultural problem. It's a problem with professionalism. Pro players are obligated to play out their matches for entertainment value. Obviously some don't agree, but getting paid comes with additional obligations to sponsors and fans (not just the ones who have the same disposition to meaningless games).
Actually it very much has to do with the Korean culture as well. Or else, this wouldn't have blown up like it did. The Korean outrage was far worse than our community's take. Many of us know what to expect from players like Naniwa. We don't have the same level of sophistication when it comes to esports and it all started with BW and the forming of KeSPA.
In layman's terms. Many foreigners treat gaming as a hobby/part-time job whereas Koreans treat it like a career. We cannot neglect the cultural impact let alone how Koreans operate.
It's something that a lot of us haven't experienced including Alex.
On December 16 2011 01:50 Bleb wrote: I agree what NaNi did is unacceptable and it made me pretty mad and embarassed as foreigner however... what I find a bit hypocritical is EG's COE calling it unacceptable and yet did nothing but a strong talk to Idra after he was in similar situationS(!) (unless I've missed it)... I guess what I'm asking... what does unacceptable really means for alex?
In Alex's defense, it's not hypocritical, because he never mentions what kind of action towards Naniwa should be taken, and clarifies multiple times that he wants to leave that out of the discussion.
This is the first time I'm reading about the Naniwa drama, and my personal opinion is it's not right for them to take away his code S spot over a worker rush. If there was no rule against it at the time, he shouldn't be punished for it. Make the rule for the next season and move on. I also don't think there should be a rule against it. Every strat should be allowed, even if it doesn't work. It could have been meta gaming where Naniwa pulls surprises on July next season and goes on to win. No need to show your hand for a match that doesn't matter.
Sorry, Alex, but you gloss over IdrA's lesser moments and prop up Nani's singular mistake. IdrA does not even feel it appropriate to play games of no consequence to him, if he could be doing something more convenient.
Anyway, point is that Nani putting on an obvious cheese would not do the game justice and not satisfy anyone watching/paying to watch the matches. Everyone watching would know Nani was not into it and was cheesing for a quick out. He should not be harshly criticized for choosing a different, much quicker route to a gg than the proxy rushes/4gates/cheeses other progamers use regularly in competition when they feel "mentally exhausted" or have no motivation for a pointless match.
The reason Nani is being punished is supposedly due to his direspect/poor sportsmanship/etc. People feel it was a slap in the face. I find this hard to believe when Korea is the birthplace of ceremonies, something that is blatantly insulting and people in Korea actually applaud ceremonies. Granted, ceremonies take place after matches are played, but the point is that no one should state that Nani's actions were an insult to Nestea or Koreans when they themselves will trash-talk and insult like anyone else playing professionally. There can be no double-standard in my opinion.
C'mon, all this comparisons to meaningless games still played - how excited you are to watch that?! I mean, it your choice...
But really funny are those ''he should 4 gated, that would be fine'' Really, let's put it this way '' how many drones would be fine? Maybe if he made like 15 and send, that better? Or if he microed this ones?
I donno... this Idra BM talk... yes he did same things, but because of his focus to win (same as NaNi) he gets 10k instant viewers...
On December 16 2011 01:50 Bleb wrote: I agree what NaNi did is unacceptable and it made me pretty mad and embarassed as foreigner however... what I find a bit hypocritical is EG's COE calling it unacceptable and yet did nothing but a strong talk to Idra after he was in similar situationS(!) (unless I've missed it)... I guess what I'm asking... what does unacceptable really means for alex?
In Alex's defense, it's not hypocritical, because he never mentions what kind of action towards Naniwa should be taken, and clarifies that multiple times.
well... what nani did is for me unacceptable... so he kinda lost me a fan and he got sort of punished by gom alex mentioned idra also did something unacceptable... and I agree with him... I also don't like idra cuz of his behaviour... but what did EG do? I know this is discussion about nani's behaviour but I'd like to see more discusion about what unacceptable really means and how we should deal with it... as a fan I can't do anything more that stop being a fan and root/support other teams... but as CEO you could do more... so I'd like to hear more about alex' opinion on that
On December 16 2011 01:50 WhiteDog wrote: I'm sorry but no. I'm sick about all that rumble for nothing. Naniwa did what a lot of progamers did before, in an extreme way yes, but still. The only thing that made people so angry about all that is that Naniwa robbed Nestea - a korean super star - from having his revenge. Koreans' ego is touched, period. If it were a korean who did that, nobody would have talked about it.
And all the shit about the vocation makes me sad, considering what naniwa did to play : he is one of the few players who only care about the game and not other aspect of esports...
A korean doing that would have been kicked out on his B-team. And gom would have probably also punished him.
People were pissed because it was disrespectful for the opponent, organizers and Naniwa's own team plus to all the progamer who had liked to be invited to the tournament.
Even Naniwa genuinly recognized he did something wrong. The only point which is still unclear is about the GOM/MLG code S seed thing.
What Naniwa did was essentially the Starcraft 2 equivalent of this:
People reacted exactly the same way back then as they did now: it wasn't against the rules, but it was certainly against the spirit of the game and action needed to be taken to prevent it from happening again.
Ok now the big names in e-sports say Naniwa should have put effort in a meaningless match. Where were they during Blizzcon 2011 when some ice-cold nestea was throwing away the final match?
On December 15 2011 23:30 EGalex wrote: TL;DR if there's no entertainment within a pro player's job, then there are no pro players.
I have to disagree, the entertainment ARE the pro players, they dont make entertainment they ARE entertainment, just by playing the game they are entertaining, there is no need for them to "train" entertaining. because they already are entertaining.
You've got the car before the horse. Their job is entertainment. EG doesn't pay Idra to win tournaments. They pay him to get exposure for their sponsors. The way he does this (most of the time) is by doing well in tournaments. But his responsibilities don't end there. Look at literally ANY other professional sport where players/teams are sponsored. Same thing there. Bottom line, the player's job is to play the game and make what at least looks to the naked eye like a good-faith effort to win (or at least make the game worth watching). First and foremost, that's the job for a player being broadcast in any televised match.
On December 16 2011 02:04 Koloff wrote: Ok now the big names in e-sports say Naniwa should have put effort in a meaningless match. Where were they during Blizzcon 2011 when some ice-cold nestea was throwing away the final match?
How can you compare a probe suicide to a full hive tech game?
EPT
