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my friend invited me to hang out with her while she does a small (10-15 person middle/late-aged people) demonstration outside a club where a rapper is going to be performing later in the evening (the rapper is going to be performing in israel in a few months and the demonstration is anti-israeli abuse). they generally stand around rather quietly trying to hand out leaflets to people who would arrive for the event
1) i arrive with my friend and sit in the car for a while, 2 other girls arrive and start fucking around with some banners or leaflets. there are like the 4 of us in a long dark street next to the club which has open doors but is preparing for the gig later
2) me and my friend need to pee so we go to the club and walk in. people are kinda preparing shit for the concert, idk, not interested.
3) i say to a bar man "where is the toilet?" , he says "over there" and we procede
4) i am peeing in the cubicle coz my trousers are awkward. the cubicle door bangs open (unlocked) and a man is staring at me and starts shouting GET OUT
5) i am like "wtf im having a pee you get out"
6) he is like "im the manager , you shouldnt be in here, get out now!" (shouting)
7) i shout back "i asked at the bar". he keeps shouting get out or whatever
8) i do up my pants and start walking out with him and lsay "you need to chill out mate!"
9) he lsays/shouts back "you need to watch your tongue!"
10) i shout back "or what??" (coz whats he gonna do fucking punch me?) as i continue to very quickly leave the building
11) i continue to walk , fuming at this maniac behaviour, and angry that i have to act in a sheepish way because i wear glasses and if i get hit in the face ill be blinded for life etc etc
12) i think that my friend will be fine because the guy obviously saw me peeing for some time and saw i wasnt doing anythiing wrong/drugs/graffiti/whatever . and she can take care of herself pretty well. and theres no way he was gonna manhandle her
13) i get on a bus and start going home, and text her "im going home". i also thought for some reason (contrary to the above) that she was already out of the bathroom and must have seen me walking past fuming down the empty long street
14) i get a answer msg from her saying the man had picked her up physically and she has called the police and wants me to be there
15) i get off and get a taxi back to the place
16) the police arrive (2 women - one a complete bitch typical admin//policeman) and basically say he done nothing wrong, hes within his rights as a licenced owner to shout and physically remove people from his premisise , and if we want to complain then send a letter to his company / whatever dumb shit.
17) the policewomens chat and laugh with the manager/bouncer man which pisses my friend off even more because she feels violated
18) my friend says he came in and banged on the door and kept shouting at her and shouted he was going to break the door down. she was afraid coz obviously she is a woman and trying to take a pee. she says after she came out he picked her up off the floor as she was walking out to remove her from the premisis
19) my friend was pissed off that the man had the right to assume she was a drug dealer/graffiti protesters/whatever and that he used completely unreasonable behaviour after seeing that i was just taking and pee and to touch her physically etc especially after we had been given permission by a staff member / barstaff to use the toilet in the first place
20) i told her he can do whatever the fuck he likes as a licenced bouncer & property owner etc and we were on his property.
21) the police bitch i think also said that the barstaff didnt have authority to let us use the bathroom if the manager didnt agree with it or some bullshit
22) my friend was pissed off that the policebitch /policewomen completely disregarded how she felt and did not reassure her or anything but instead went and had a chat and were laughing with the bouncer/manager , when she felt victimised and bullied
23) my friend talked on the phone to the police sargent after we later went to the police station to make a complaint (the policebitch said it was pointless etc). the sargent basically said everything id presumed from the getgo (suck it up, they can do what they like, it is reasonable behaviour according to...law? for him to do whatever he likes if he can come up with excuses like "she might have been doing drugs or vandalising the place as part of the anti-israel protest, tho this is BS because it was quite evident that we were not doing anything of the sort by the time he had watched me peeing and prior to ejecting my friend with force even when she was leaving voluntarily and as soon as she could (being shouted at by a bouncer doesnt make you wanna stick around does it)
super SUPER FUCKING tired but thought id put this down here before i sleep 5 hours before work goddamnit
edit: WTF no one told me MLG was 3-day instead of sat/sun!!!! i wouldnt have fuckin taken this work shift if i knew!!!!
 
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That's quite the story...
MLG has always started on Friday.
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Firstly, you need to calm down when you write. I'm pretty sure a bouncer or manager (didn't quite get who it was) isn't allowed to physically pick up women. I'm fairly certain she can press charges for sexual harassment or abuse or something. I don't fully understand why they would be so angry, the club has an entry fee which you skipped to use the bathroom?
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no presumeably he saw there was gong to be a demonstration of some kind and he thought we had gone in to hide in the toilets and later come out and disrupt the gig somehow, combine that with raging bully club manager/bouncer plus whatever other stress and you have and you end up with shit like this happening in innocent situations with no consequence except a victim feeling violated and something to laugh about with your (his) buddies
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i am calm im so calm im literally in a trance from lack of sleep , i had to write it like that 
dont you know real men use lists to tell a story
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You would think that it would be illegal for the owner to enter the females washroom and confront someone who is using it. Im sure he has full rights to remove the 2 of you from his establishment, but I highly doubt he is able to enter the female washroom any time he pleases. If I was your friend, I would certainly look into it.
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what i dont get it is this: u met her, both went into the bar (toilet w/e) and then you just took a bus w/o saying goodbye to her in person? why?:O
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So cops and I don't really get along. I just want to lay that out there before I say this.
I don't know where this happens, but in the US...
The owner of the bar was completely within his rights to force you to leave and to physically remove your friend if she refused to leave on her own. He doesn't have to claim he thought you were doing drugs. He doesn't need any excuse at all. It's within his rights to remove you for any reason at any time (other than racial discrimination, etc.).
I'd imagine there's some question about removing you from the bathrooms. If he forced a locked stall open without giving you a reasonable amount of time to get out, you might have something. Beyond that, I don't see anything that looks real bad here. It's a shitty situation (especially since you asked at the bar before using the bathroom), but it doesn't sound like anything illegal happened (even after only hearing your side of the story).
On a side note, if you came to a protest outside my bar against a show I was putting on, I sure as hell wouldn't let you in to use the bathroom.
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When someone does some shit like this to me or someone I care about, I don't write a blog about it to make myself feel a little better. I get even. That doesn't mean you have to stand toe to toe with him to get even... use your imagination. If you have a strong sense of justice like I do, payback is so satisfying. Of course, you have to be willing to accept the possible consequences if you don't get your revenge intelligently.
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On November 19 2011 11:02 TruthIsCold wrote:
When someone does some shit like this to me or someone I care about, I don't write a blog about it to make myself feel a little better. I get even. That doesn't mean you have to stand toe to toe with him to get even... use your imagination. If you have a strong sense of justice like I do, payback is so satisfying. Of course, you have to be willing to accept the possible consequences if you don't get your revenge intelligently.
Would you fuck owners wife and give her AIDS? That sounds fairly intelligent.
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On November 19 2011 11:15 discodancer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 11:02 TruthIsCold wrote:
When someone does some shit like this to me or someone I care about, I don't write a blog about it to make myself feel a little better. I get even. That doesn't mean you have to stand toe to toe with him to get even... use your imagination. If you have a strong sense of justice like I do, payback is so satisfying. Of course, you have to be willing to accept the possible consequences if you don't get your revenge intelligently. Would you fuck owners wife and give her AIDS? That sounds fairly intelligent.
Ummm.... what?
I'm guessing this is a joke of some sort, but for the record: no, giving someone who wasn't involved in the situation at all a deadly disease is not very intelligent, or just. You gotta have standards, like Dexter 
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On November 19 2011 09:31 Galaxy77 wrote:
Firstly, you need to calm down when you write. I'm pretty sure a bouncer or manager (didn't quite get who it was) isn't allowed to physically pick up women. I'm fairly certain she can press charges for sexual harassment or abuse or something. I don't fully understand why they would be so angry, the club has an entry fee which you skipped to use the bathroom?
On November 19 2011 10:16 eXigent. wrote:
You would think that it would be illegal for the owner to enter the females washroom and confront someone who is using it. Im sure he has full rights to remove the 2 of you from his establishment, but I highly doubt he is able to enter the female washroom any time he pleases. If I was your friend, I would certainly look into it.
Oh please. Anyone talking about sexual harassment because a male physically touched another female needs to harden the fuck up.
First of all, what if the male owner is gay? Suddenly it cant be possible he's trying to sexually harass her. Secondly, what if the owner was a straight woman? Does she have the right to enter parts of her own establishment and kick people the fuck out as she pleases?
This is what grinds my gears. Self important people seeking a way to "get back at" someone, and when there's no legal or factual recourse, they try to bring up sexual harassment to screw the person when they were within their rights. Its people like this that make countries so fucked up with sexuality laws. Abuse of said laws makes everyone look bad.
For anyone who says "we didn't know what else to do so we're going to try sexual harassment claims, you're the problem with society.
I always consider gay females to have it so lucky when they get dormed in an all female school or dorm. If anything, its sexist against straight people, because they get to be around other humans they are completely unattracted to, while gay people get free eye candy shows. Hell, one of my gay female friends is telling me all about how she gets to massage her roomates and she even saw one making a sexy underwear video for her bf back home. Straighties get screwed all the time by sexuality laws and rules. And the reason is people like you, making incorrect claims because you want to abuse a system to get back at someone. Either do it illegally in a way that brings no ills or trouble on other people, or get over it.
Everyone harden the fuck up.
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On November 19 2011 10:34 tenacity wrote:
what i dont get it is this: u met her, both went into the bar (toilet w/e) and then you just took a bus w/o saying goodbye to her in person? why?:O
ddelirious w fatigue + delirious w rage. one thing i knew for sure was i had to get the fuck out of there or something bad would happen (violence). i knew she could take care of herself and it wasnt till she called and said he'd handled her that i decided to come back.
of course they can do what the fuck they like woman or not , but it was not reasonable (we were not refusing to leave in any fashion)
i dont know about this revenge/payback shit, the best thing is to probably go some time during the day and try to talk to him about it , maybe he will think differently in future incidents , or maybe he will rage again and this time get some buddies to stalk me, who knows what people with power will do. ive no idea what "intelligent payback" is unless you mean a bomb scare or something random like that *shrugs*
btw it is not "self important people" when you have been victimised and abused and bullied by some money-munching macho asshole. yes gay females are so lucky in an all-female school, i dont know what the fuck you are talking about now lol, i guess you are just ranting
i agree cops are fucking weird people , one of them seemed okay, probably got stuck in the job carried along by the powerful personalities that surround her, but the other was just a typical ego-maniac bitch who would love to see you doing 10 years for looking at her in the wrong way. just cant comprehend why anyone would take that job and enjoy it unless they are evil. i guess you could say that about a lot of jobs really - working in a bar is selling poison , working in the army is selling murder , etc
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No one did anything wrong at all, dunno why you're bitching. Management can bounce you at any time and that doesnt mean when you want to go
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On November 19 2011 12:13 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 10:34 tenacity wrote:
what i dont get it is this: u met her, both went into the bar (toilet w/e) and then you just took a bus w/o saying goodbye to her in person? why?:O ddelirious w fatigue + delirious w rage. one thing i knew for sure was i had to get the fuck out of there or something bad would happen (violence). i knew she could take care of herself and it wasnt till she called and said he'd handled her that i decided to come back. of course they can do what the fuck they like woman or not , but it was not reasonable (we were not refusing to leave in any fashion) i dont know about this revenge/payback shit, the best thing is to probably go some time during the day and try to talk to him about it , maybe he will think differently in future incidents , or maybe he will rage again and this time get some buddies to stalk me, who knows what people with power will do. ive no idea what "intelligent payback" is unless you mean a bomb scare or something random like that *shrugs* btw it is not "self important people" when you have been victimised and abused and bullied by some money-munching macho asshole. yes gay females are so lucky in an all-female school, i dont know what the fuck you are talking about now lol, i guess you are just ranting i agree cops are fucking weird people , one of them seemed okay, probably got stuck in the job carried along by the powerful personalities that surround her, but the other was just a typical ego-maniac bitch who would love to see you doing 10 years for looking at her in the wrong way. just cant comprehend why anyone would take that job and enjoy it unless they are evil. i guess you could say that about a lot of jobs really - working in a bar is selling poison , working in the army is selling murder , etc
In what way were you victimized? Abused?
See, here's the thing. If you came here, told the story, and simply called the bar owner an asshole, everyone would be on your side. He sounds like a total dick.
Instead, you're acting like something terrible and traumatic happened to you. You're trying to make it a bigger deal than it is. "Self-important" is probably the most accurate and concise way I can think to explain it. Take a step outside your own perspective for a second and think about it. I can think of plenty of reasons the owner would want you out of his bar, and it's his right to remove you, with force if necessary.
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The OP's behavior does nothing at all to make me think the owner is less of a dick. When someone gets pushed around, they can sometimes get a little emotional about it, so I'm not gonna criticize the OP for it.
And I have never in my life given a damn about what is LEGALLY right. All I care about is what is morally and socially right, and using violence or aggression as a first resort to get someone out of your business, instead of first just asking them to leave, is a real dick move.
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okay well maybe if your kind and gentle mother was screamed at by a violent maniac bashing on her toilet door then picked up and carried out of the building that she was innocently in and all too ready to leave, just because she might have been a criminal from someone elses perspective, maybe that is not considered abusive behaviour to you , after all i suppose in your country you can shoot someone dead if they step into your own precious little box
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On November 19 2011 12:58 FFGenerations wrote:
okay well maybe if your kind and gentle mother was screamed at by a violent maniac bashing on her toilet door then picked up and carried out of the building that she was innocently in and all too ready to leave, just because she might have been a criminal from someone elses perspective, maybe that is not considered abusive behaviour to you , after all i suppose in your country you can shoot someone dead if they step into your own precious little box
And the nation bigotry comes of out nowhere... So many backwards people in the world.
Sigh...
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excuse me if he can consider my friends reaction to this behaviour to be "self important" and not "it was abusive" then its a pretty safe assumption that there are some cultural differences in perception going on at work here
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On November 19 2011 12:58 FFGenerations wrote:
okay well maybe if your kind and gentle mother was screamed at by a violent maniac bashing on her toilet door then picked up and carried out of the building that she was innocently in and all too ready to leave, just because she might have been a criminal from someone elses perspective, maybe that is not considered abusive behaviour to you , after all i suppose in your country you can shoot someone dead if they step into your own precious little box
And all this time I thought you might be overreacting...
I can see it now. You're totally rational. You've persuaded me with your calm, well-reasoned, and clearly presented argument.
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because the first 3 lines of my post dont exist right? you're a pretty awful troll, baiting. its NOT the right of someone to abuse another person and you are disputing that this is a case of abuse? troll, baiting, banned from my blog
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On November 19 2011 13:11 FFGenerations wrote:
because the first 3 lines of my post dont exist right? you're a pretty awful troll, baiting. its NOT the right of someone to abuse another person and you are disputing that this is a case of abuse? troll, baiting, banned from my blog
You where demonstrating outside some guys business that he feeds his family with and your getting angry at people for not giving you sympathy when the guy isn't happy with you when your using his bathrooms?
Can you understand why he did what he did? Or are you just irrational and bigoted?
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
my friend invited me to hang out with her while she does a small (10-15 person middle/late-aged people) demonstration outside a club where a rapper is going to be performing later in the evening (the rapper is going to be performing in israel in a few months and the demonstration is anti-israeli abuse).
Well...that doesn't seem like a particularly effective way of conveying your disagreements with Israeli policy, but hey, to each his own.
If a mob started protesting outside my establishment with no seemingly logical reason, I'd suspect them of being on drugs too.
edit: wtf im hydra now
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actually im not gonna ban that guy, hes actually a decent poster
yes of COURSE i can understand what he did and why he done it, that doesnt make it any less abusive and it doesnt make my friend or any other innocent person any less violated . you cant treat other human beings like fucking dirt , like scum, just because you suspect something and are pumped up on testosterone and get a kick out of yelling and pushing people about because its your precious property
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Well now I feel like I have to post just to celebrate my unbanning, or disbanning, or never being banned in the first place (I'm not really sure which, or if disbanning is a real word).
Also, I think we usually agree on most things, though I'd have to check.
shrug
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Actually thats where your wrong, he can do whatever the wants to on his "precious property". Now I'm not sure where your from or what country this event took place in, but by your previous comments I'm think its not the U.S of A.
But assuming you don't live in China this man had legal right to kick your ass out of his bar. You don't have to like it, I wouldn't have either. But if he didn't like the speed at which your lady friend was removing herself from HIS property it is well within his rights to make that happen faster.
Same would have gone for you if he had picked you up and carried you outside. Besides I'm sure that you could have found another establishment close by to take leak in. Sounds like you didn't think it through before you went inside.
And on another note, why the hell protest a rapper going to Israel, a rapper that has no impact on their policy. Sounds like you just don't want the man to make any money, and thats just down right mean.
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On November 19 2011 13:22 FFGenerations wrote:
actually im not gonna ban that guy, hes actually a decent poster
yes of COURSE i can understand what he did and why he done it, that doesnt make it any less abusive and it doesnt make my friend or any other innocent person any less violated . you cant treat other human beings like fucking dirt , like scum, just because you suspect something and are pumped up on testosterone and get a kick out of yelling and pushing people about because its your precious property
Its not his property though. Its his business. All the hours and money hes put into it to build something for him and his family. I have no clue why you guys thought that something wouldn't go wrong with using the bathrooms of the place that your demonstrating(protesting?) outside of. Hes worried that you guys are driving away business and stealing money from him. The guy that he has playing in his club is not cheap at all and he wants to attract good talent to bring people to his club so he can make more money and have a better life for him and his family. I have no idea where your getting this disconnect between being innocent and harming the guys business. city cops tend to be pretty shaky on weather they're going to be good or not. They have a very dangerous job that doesn't pay very well that they have to work long hours on. They get spat on by a lot of people for no good reason and truly believe in what they are doing is right, otherwise they wouldn't be cops.
Just a tip for next time. Bring a camera and videotape everything that happens. Then you're bulletproof on them not harassing you or them accusing you of something you didn't do.
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The owner did nothing wrong. You are overreacting.
Typical protocol for people they don't want on their premises and like you said, there was a demonstration outside. He didn't want to deal with any bullshit.
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its not reasonable behaviour and resulted in an abuse. i understand he has "legal right" to do whatever the fuck he wants, thats why i groaned when my friend said she'd called the police, these people can do whatever they like. but what happened was not acceptable and you should not for one second feel the need to stand up in defence of it. that is a really weak and blinkered view of reality. you should never justify this sort of behaviour when there are alternatives. do you really think you have more in common with this violent man than with my friend who needed to pee? that you feel a need to overlook a violation for "the greater good" of protecting his business? get a grip.
"all the hours, all the money he put into it". my friend is a support worker for the elderly, you think THAT gives her any right to scare the fuck out of someone in a threatening manner and physically push them around?
the "protest" is more of an awareness campaign , the rapper plans to go to israel to perform and the "protesters" thought it was a good place to give out flyers to inform people of human right abuses in israel
i did think for a moment that it wasnt appropriate to go inside that place but like i said its located on a long (empty) street , we were not stopped by any of the staff inside, and infact after i asked the staff for directions to the bathroom i had still not reckoned that a raging 300lb maniac would bust down the door and carry us away
LITTLE DID I KNOW
acceptable my ass
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From the sound of it he didn't abuse her and your dramatization doesn't help the case. He didn't do whatever he wanted. He removed her from the premise after asking both of you to leave the building.
Look if the guy is yelling at you for whatever reason (regardless of the noise level in the building) there is no need to match their body language or pitch. You said you tried to keep calm and poised, but it doesn't sound like you came off that way to him especially with the language you used.
Your friend overreacted. If it were me I would go back, try to calm her down and get to the bottom of it. It's a bar setting. I used to deal with all kinds of shit like this and your story is no different.
He physically removed her because she was making a scene and was being resistant. If you aren't going to cooperate then get ready to deal with the consequences. He never sexually assaulted her.
If I'm the bar owner I certainly wouldn't want to put up with any sort of protest right outside my door. Chances are very high that a silent protest will escalate with the drunks.
No staff or bartender stopped you. That's fine, but their opinion means very little. If the manager/owner doesn't want you in their establishment then it's best to leave promptly.
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On November 19 2011 13:22 FFGenerations wrote:
actually im not gonna ban that guy, hes actually a decent poster
yes of COURSE i can understand what he did and why he done it, that doesnt make it any less abusive and it doesnt make my friend or any other innocent person any less violated . you cant treat other human beings like fucking dirt , like scum, just because you suspect something and are pumped up on testosterone and get a kick out of yelling and pushing people about because its your precious property
are you retarded? You were holding a demonstration in front of his business and thought he'd be cool with you using his bathrooms and when he told you to leave you didn't. Stop crying like a self-entitled bitch and learn that he did nothing wrong and had every right to treat you how he did.
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On November 19 2011 13:58 FFGenerations wrote:
its not reasonable behaviour and resulted in an abuse. i understand he has "legal right" to do whatever the fuck he wants, thats why i groaned when my friend said she'd called the police, these people can do whatever they like. but what happened was not acceptable and you should not for one second feel the need to stand up in defence of it. that is a really weak and blinkered view of reality. you should never justify this sort of behaviour when there are alternatives. do you really think you have more in common with this violent man than with my friend who needed to pee? that you feel a need to overlook a violation for "the greater good" of protecting his business? get a grip.
"all the hours, all the money he put into it". my friend is a support worker for the elderly, you think THAT gives her any right to scare the fuck out of someone in a threatening manner and physically push them around?
the "protest" is more of an awareness campaign , the rapper plans to go to israel to perform and the "protesters" thought it was a good place to give out flyers to inform people of human right abuses in israel
i did think for a moment that it wasnt appropriate to go inside that place but like i said its located on a long (empty) street , we were not stopped by any of the staff inside, and infact after i asked the staff for directions to the bathroom i had still not reckoned that a raging 300lb maniac would bust down the door and carry us away
LITTLE DID I KNOW
acceptable my ass
So now we know you are a blatant liar. You specifically said you walked out on your own. Now he suddenly busted down the door and carried you out? Stop wasting people's time with your fabricated drama.
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On November 19 2011 14:22 sebusca wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 13:22 FFGenerations wrote:
actually im not gonna ban that guy, hes actually a decent poster
yes of COURSE i can understand what he did and why he done it, that doesnt make it any less abusive and it doesnt make my friend or any other innocent person any less violated . you cant treat other human beings like fucking dirt , like scum, just because you suspect something and are pumped up on testosterone and get a kick out of yelling and pushing people about because its your precious property are you retarded? You were holding a demonstration in front of his business and thought he'd be cool with you using his bathrooms and when he told you to leave you didn't. Stop crying like a self-entitled bitch and learn that he did nothing wrong and had every right to treat you how he did.
where did i say we didnt leave? it took about 10 seconds for me to get out, i cant speak for my friend but she made a point of saying why the fuck would she want to stay there, she was terrified and he picked her up for the hell of it to chuck her out as she was walking out
if your fucking mother was violated like this id like to see you call her a self-entitled bitch when she claims it was unreasonable and dispicable to treat her like that. you have absolutely no sense of reality do you
and now im "blatent liar" coz i am being slightly verbose/poetic after re-explaining the same thing 20 fucking times to people who cant understand simple concepts, no wonder you cant get it into your head
alright then im a liar, you can stop posting here coz obviously you shouldnt be talking to blatent liars
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so from what I gather your protesting outside of some club because of the act they have playing that night, and then you go in to that same club to use the bathroom and they kick you out. And now your upset about it? why didn't you just leave when he told you to, that goes for your friend as well. I'm sure there were other places to use the restroom around.
It sounds like you need perspective on the situation. This man pays his bills, his rent, his food, his life by working this bar and having acts come and play at his bar. You stand outside and basically shit all over his place and then you ask to use the bathroom? Protesting is fine and legal, but you going inside the place is just stupid, borderline insane. Maybe put some more thought into your "Demonstrations" in the first place. If your going to protest something don't ask the people you are trying to harm for help that's pathetic.
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On November 19 2011 12:49 TruthIsCold wrote:
The OP's behavior does nothing at all to make me think the owner is less of a dick. When someone gets pushed around, they can sometimes get a little emotional about it, so I'm not gonna criticize the OP for it.
And I have never in my life given a damn about what is LEGALLY right. All I care about is what is morally and socially right, and using violence or aggression as a first resort to get someone out of your business, instead of first just asking them to leave, is a real dick move.
You are not above the law, and justice is not synonymous with vengeance. What you're proposing is naive and irresponsible, as if you are above everyone else. If you want vigilantism to be the new law then move to goddamned Somalia.
edit: and honestly, OP, it is almost impossible to have any sympathy for you when you entered the place that you were protesting outside of. Getting picked up and thrown out really is not sexual in any sense nor is it even close to being compared as a "violation". Unless that guy was actively groping your friend with active sexual intent, he was simply just throwing out. Get over yourselves.
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I must say, the people jumping on the "Of course he is going to be mad when you are 'protesting' outside his bar" wagon. Did you even read the OP? they clearly said that the extent of their 'protesting' was handing out flyers.
and at the people who share Koreasilver's views, if i am to view the world with your philosophy, then you would agree that the trial and execution of Socrates was just and moral? Please, don't make me laugh, I think we should all know by now that the law is by no means always just, or in the true interests of the people, when the laws are made by a representative based government rather than a (i don't actually know the term for this) true democratic government.
I don't know, there was some other stuff I was going to say... but i forgot it now, so... :|
Edit: rewording.
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On November 19 2011 18:51 HeroUlyssess wrote:
I must say, the people jumping on the "Of course he is going to be mad when you are 'protesting' outside his bar" wagon. Did you even read the OP? they clearly said that the extent of their 'protesting' was handing out flyers.
and at the people who share Koreasilver's views, if i am to view the world with your philosophy, then you would agree that the trial and execution of Socrates was just and moral? Please, don't make me laugh, I think we should all know by now that the law is by no means always just, or in the true interests of the people, when the laws are made by a representative based government rather than a (i don't actually know the term for this) true democratic government.
I don't know, there was some other stuff I was going to say... but i forgot it now, so... :|
Edit: rewording.
Obviously the law is not always just, nor perfect, far from it. But its far from always wrong and unjust, I hope you aren't proposing we go back to the stone age and rule our society by whomever is in power's moral opinion. And your example of socrates is pretty bad, obviously that was against the law and not a just trial. Just because they called it a "trial" doesn't mean it was a fair one. What are you trying to say, no one has a right to personal property and everyone should be able to do whatever they want wherever they want?
The Club owner didn't beat them, didn't rape them, he escorted them out of the club. If you are protesting outside of an establishment you are trying to harm that business. To the club owner that is his life, the way he provides for his family and puts food in his stomach. These people were trying to put less food on his table and harm his way of life. If you disagree with their political views or whatever thats fine, protest them, hand out leaflets all day, but don't expect them to invite you over for tea and dinner... The Owner was far in his moral right to kick them out. Even if the law wasn't on his side he was still in the right to be able to kick them out. If I came to your house and smashed your tv , then asked if i could take a dump in your toilet would you let me? There is no morality that says you can just come into my club and do whatever the fuck you please, that doesn't make any-sense. Was the club owner probably a jackass and maybe too rough for your tastes? maybe but crying about it isn't going to get you anywhere.
The real crime here is the lack of information provided by the OP, how long were you in the bathroom, what did the protest entail, how many protestors were there, why is there a club on a supposed empty street with no other business' for miles, why didn't your friend leave when she was asked, how did she know to be scared of the guy because he was 300 pounds before seeing him, why would you go inside of a place you are protesting? A lot of places won't let you use their restroom if you aren't a paying customer, not only were you not a paying customer you were a protestor of their business....
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bouncing someone who is trying to dictate whether or not they're allowed on the property is abuse now?? looooooooooooool
Simple solution: Don't act like a retard in a bar. That includes but is not limited to: being drunk as shit, starting a fight, protesting the bar and then utilizing the property after, etc etc. I mean jesus... you're doing something to potentially harm his business and wonder why you get thrown out. Holy shit.
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Well I'm sure your message really got out there and you made a difference for all your trials and tribulations.
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On November 19 2011 19:31 TheGiftedApe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 18:51 HeroUlyssess wrote:
I must say, the people jumping on the "Of course he is going to be mad when you are 'protesting' outside his bar" wagon. Did you even read the OP? they clearly said that the extent of their 'protesting' was handing out flyers.
and at the people who share Koreasilver's views, if i am to view the world with your philosophy, then you would agree that the trial and execution of Socrates was just and moral? Please, don't make me laugh, I think we should all know by now that the law is by no means always just, or in the true interests of the people, when the laws are made by a representative based government rather than a (i don't actually know the term for this) true democratic government.
I don't know, there was some other stuff I was going to say... but i forgot it now, so... :|
Edit: rewording. Obviously the law is not always just, nor perfect, far from it. But its far from always wrong and unjust, I hope you aren't proposing we go back to the stone age and rule our society by whomever is in power's moral opinion. And your example of socrates is pretty bad, obviously that was against the law and not a just trial. Just because they called it a "trial" doesn't mean it was a fair one. What are you trying to say, no one has a right to personal property and everyone should be able to do whatever they want wherever they want? The Club owner didn't beat them, didn't rape them, he escorted them out of the club. If you are protesting outside of an establishment you are trying to harm that business. To the club owner that is his life, the way he provides for his family and puts food in his stomach. These people were trying to put less food on his table and harm his way of life. If you disagree with their political views or whatever thats fine, protest them, hand out leaflets all day, but don't expect them to invite you over for tea and dinner... The Owner was far in his moral right to kick them out. Even if the law wasn't on his side he was still in the right to be able to kick them out. If I came to your house and smashed your tv , then asked if i could take a dump in your toilet would you let me? There is no morality that says you can just come into my club and do whatever the fuck you please, that doesn't make any-sense. Was the club owner probably a jackass and maybe too rough for your tastes? maybe but crying about it isn't going to get you anywhere. The real crime here is the lack of information provided by the OP, how long were you in the bathroom, what did the protest entail, how many protestors were there, why is there a club on a supposed empty street with no other business' for miles, why didn't your friend leave when she was asked, how did she know to be scared of the guy because he was 300 pounds before seeing him, why would you go inside of a place you are protesting? A lot of places won't let you use their restroom if you aren't a paying customer, not only were you not a paying customer you were a protestor of their business....
ill just fill in your gaps since you asked
1) in the bathroom for 30 seconds before he pushed open my door and started yelling, but apparently he had gone to my friends toilet first (she was screaming for him to go talk to me in the mens toilet coz he was saying i was in her one with her. i didnt hear any of this)
2) protest afaik was 1 banner and a bunch (10-15?) of middle/late-aged people basically silent (no shouting or craziness like the word "protest" indicates) holding offering a flier to people who arrived at the venue
3) there were 2 protesters there, no one else had arrived yet, basically 2 women standing in the cold with a banner on the stone floor about 15 metres from the club entrance. when me and my friend arrived that made 4, well really it was 3 coz i stayed in the car coz it was cold until i decided i needed to pee
4) hrm i dont remember what i wrote in the op now, apparently the guy went to her toilet first and bashed on the door and said to break it down, she said we have permission and she is taking a pee and to talk to me in the other toilet, so i guess she took "longer" to leave than me
5) she knew to be scared of the guy coz she is a fragile vulnerable middle (late) aged lady taking a pee when a man suddenly starts bashing on the door screaming like a maniac threatening to break it down and drag her out while she is hal naked or wtvr, how hard is this to convey in your brain? its not exactly a choice
6) why would i go inside? well one im not even a fucking protester really, she didnt even tell me it was a protest until 10 minutes after we got there and sitting in the car, i thought we were going to a nice place to sit down have a drink and watch some music , imagine my annoyance when infact i find out we're gonna stand outside the place in freezing cold instead LOL. i went inside because i needed to PEE and after practically getting permission from the staff inside pretty much everything after that is FUCKING BULLSHIT to treat us like that
7) dont ask me why its in the middle of nowhere, its kinda overlooking a beach / under a beach wall well out of the way. i mean itd probably take 4 minutes to find somewhere else so if i thought i was going to feel threatened for my life by going in there i could have easily avoided it
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The bartenders simply didn't recognize that you were protestors but the manager did which is why you get tossed by him. Why's that bullshit
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On November 19 2011 17:25 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 12:49 TruthIsCold wrote:
The OP's behavior does nothing at all to make me think the owner is less of a dick. When someone gets pushed around, they can sometimes get a little emotional about it, so I'm not gonna criticize the OP for it.
And I have never in my life given a damn about what is LEGALLY right. All I care about is what is morally and socially right, and using violence or aggression as a first resort to get someone out of your business, instead of first just asking them to leave, is a real dick move. You are not above the law, and justice is not synonymous with vengeance. What you're proposing is naive and irresponsible, as if you are above everyone else. If you want vigilantism to be the new law then move to goddamned Somalia. edit: and honestly, OP, it is almost impossible to have any sympathy for you when you entered the place that you were protesting outside of. Getting picked up and thrown out really is not sexual in any sense nor is it even close to being compared as a "violation". Unless that guy was actively groping your friend with active sexual intent, he was simply just throwing out. Get over yourselves.
did i say it was sexual abuse? i thought that was some other people trying to put words into my mouth. its fucking hilarious when people put words into your mouth then comment on them LOL, and then a page later someone else sees what they read as the truth , bandwagoning finest . still nothing new there LOL
if you think its reasonable, and not violating and abusive behaviour, for a big bully of a man to scream and shout and bash on doors in a way that makes an innocent woman fear for her safety and then start physically manipulating her, humiliating and scaring her, in the situation as ive tried to describe it, then well i guess we have to agree to disagree. go ahead and not have sympathy and support for people , but thats pretty scarey because you might aswell go round acting like that man yourself if you think so strongly it is permissible behaviour (so long it is on the "GOOD" side of the law) and you would rather defend it than defend a confused and vulnerable woman. like i said , there are alternatives to being a raging psychopath . anyway i have said all this much better in previous posts
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To be honest OP, your friend sounds like a nut job.
It wasn't reasonable we agree (Assuming you are telling the truth and your friend told you the truth).
But let's back track... You have no evidences of him manhandling her and you telling the story to the cops just sounds like typical wacko stories from protesters that want to start some shit.
Your purpose there alone is suspicious and you can't blame the cops for not caring, they sees punks start shits up all day and why should they believe you more?
Just be glad you are not in China. Over there, you get a beating and your friend gets raped in the back :/ and the Cops won't ever bother to attend the scene.
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wait you just ditched your girl? Even after knowing they are confrontational? So basically you're a tool. I'm surprised she will talk to you at all....
And you don't act sheepish because you wear glasses and might go blind if you get punched... You are sheepish because you sound like a sheep.
Sorry if I sound rude but I don't understand getting on a fucking bus and ditching your friend just to text her " bye." or some shit.
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On November 19 2011 18:51 HeroUlyssess wrote:
I must say, the people jumping on the "Of course he is going to be mad when you are 'protesting' outside his bar" wagon. Did you even read the OP? they clearly said that the extent of their 'protesting' was handing out flyers.
and at the people who share Koreasilver's views, if i am to view the world with your philosophy, then you would agree that the trial and execution of Socrates was just and moral? Please, don't make me laugh, I think we should all know by now that the law is by no means always just, or in the true interests of the people, when the laws are made by a representative based government rather than a (i don't actually know the term for this) true democratic government.
I don't know, there was some other stuff I was going to say... but i forgot it now, so... :|
Edit: rewording.
There's a difference between acknowledging that the legal procedure may be flawed and rewriting the law in a purely subjective sense and subjecting the world to your purely personal beliefs. Rejecting society's power over you out of protest is fine and is necessary, but then turning around with your next step and forcing your power over society is not okay. This is a narcissism, and this is nothing but replying to a totalizing tyranny with a totalizing tyranny of your own. This was exactly what that guy was suggesting, which had nothing at all to do with democracy. He was proposing a vigilante justice rooted in nothing but "my own morality" - this is a tyranny.
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On November 19 2011 13:58 FFGenerations wrote:
its not reasonable behaviour and resulted in an abuse. i understand he has "legal right" to do whatever the fuck he wants
There are two separate questions here. First is whether his behavior is criminal. In your case, probably not, in her case, it might be, because physically touching someone without consent is specifically illegal as assault unless it meets certain exceptions. The police didn't think it did, but remember that their interpretation doesn't have the force of law -- they're interpreting the law on the fly, and can make mistakes.
Second: The manager's behavior might be cause for a civil lawsuit, even if it's not criminal. What the police thought of the situation isn't relevant to whether that's true. The police aren't there to evaluate that, they're there to ensure that criminal laws aren't violated, and deal with it if they seem to be.
If your friend feels wronged, she should talk to a lawyer, and see what options she might have.
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On November 20 2011 09:02 GumThief wrote:wait you just ditched your girl? Even after knowing they are confrontational? So basically you're a tool. I'm surprised she will talk to you at all.... And you don't act sheepish because you wear glasses and might go blind if you get punched... You are sheepish because you sound like a sheep. Sorry if I sound rude but I don't understand getting on a fucking bus and ditching your friend just to text her " bye." or some shit.
mm since you asked, i was delirious from poor sleep/lack of sleep, didnt wanna be there really in the first place (didnt realise it was a protest thing and not just sitting in a bar with her for 2 hours), had work the next day and was gonna get 5-6 hours sleep anyway, knew that the manager (however much a cock) could do what he wanted, knew that she is a strong person who can basically take care of herself better than i can take care of her especially when im about to drop, and i was in an uncontrollable rage which would have VERY VERY likely ended up in me making the situation 100x worse (ie i could have potentially smacked someone in the face then been hospitalised and prosecuted and spent time in jail with a hefty fine because of it). wearing glasses was just one thing on top of that , which i thought of at the time and which was really irrelevent but it only added to my frustration of, like you said, being generally inadequate to deal with the situation in an admirable way
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I'd like to believe your story but for as long as I have lived I have never seen a single protester just say "ok sir" whenever they were told by authority to do something. They always try to argue about their "rights" even though they are usually wrong about their rights. People almost always embellish or lie about their side of the story. In your last post you say she is a strong person that can take care of herself and in all your other posts you've been saying she's a frightened little lady.
Sounds like he hurt her pride more than anything. She will get over it, don't worry.
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i hadnt realised that he might have manhandled her (until she phoned me), by "take care of herself" i meant post being shouted at and scared out of the premises. whilst sitting on the toilet having the door bashed on and feeling threatened by a shouting stranger and then manhandled when she opens the door, yes it is more reasonable to consider her a "frightened little lady" ie a vulnerable person. i understand what you mean but sometimes dont you think it is better to er on the side of the victim than the bully lol?
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EPT
