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Coca messed up. Bigtime, and now his progaming career, and possibly his life, is in shambles. What he and Byun did was unbelievably foolish, and very damaging to Esports. He should be punished.
But what Coca does also brings back the dreaded issue of match-fixing, and with it all of the raw emotions of the match-fixing scandal. Koreans today are still to an extent shell-shocked by the scandal, where some of their most believed progaming, the players that they had idolized and trusted, had be found to be criminals rigging the system.
It should not be too surprising then to understand the magnitude of the punishment meted out to Coca: Withdrawal from Code S, demotion to the Slayers B-team and indefinite suspension from tournament play. This young man's progaming career may just be over.
Nevertheless, Coca is not savior. Savior was a criminal who not only threw his own games, but created a gambling ring of progamers who would all throw games. Coca is a 17 teenager who, quite frankly, did not give a shit and let his former teammate Byun advance in a tournament that Coca did not really care about to begin. Appropriately, their punishments vary in severity.
Still, this punishment has seemed overly harsh by many fans, especially in the West, but for Koreans, the risk of SC2 losing legitimacy from this issue was too great, and punishment must be exacted. Maybe the response was a result of the emotional aftermath of BW's matchfixing scandal, and had the original scandal never have happened, perhaps Coca would be let off with a warning today. But that is all irrelevant and a byproduct of my rambling.
No, what they did was make a strong statement to the fans, the potential sponsors, and progamers that matchfixing of any kind would not be tolerated at all. This was the right thing to do.
But the incident also raises the issue of the prevalence of matchfixing. There have been several incidents of matchfixing already (Stephano-Brat_OK at Assembly, Demuslim-Idra at ESWC, etc), and probably numerous unreported cases. It also reveals the inconsistencies that the SC2 community deals with this issue across regions: The foreign scene appears to be much more lenient, disapproving of the incidents, but at the same time opposing punitive measures for the players. How do we as a global community deal with this issue so that there is consistency in recognizing and punishing such a problem.
What Coca and Byun did was probably not an isolated case, where a player gives a friend or teammate an advantage (in fact, there had been rumors at MLG Anaheim that MMA had been considering throwing the match with Boxer so that Boxer could have gotten the Code S spot instead of him. This of course did not happen, but certainly is not unconceivable) but what sets them apart was that they were foolish enough to broadcast their intentions.
Of course, we as a community need to be careful on who we accuse as matchfixers. Suddenly people begin to point fingers at other progamers, calling them cheaters as well. Do no start a witchhunt: These accusations can ruin a player's reputation and career, and drive away new fans and sponsors.
Nevertheless, we do need to maintain a high level of integrity and ethics from players and teams, especially in the foreign scene. Do we necessarily have to punish players like Slayers punished Coca? No, but we cannot let them off the hook either.
Let us as a community grow from this painful episode and learn from it. Professional Starcraft 2 is growing, and we cannot let an issue let matchfixing stand in the way of its growth.
 
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On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:
Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun.
Small or big, match fixing is killing esports
nuff said.
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On November 16 2011 06:58 Bagration wrote:
What Coca and Byun did was probably not an isolated case, where a player gives a friend or teammate an advantage (in fact, there had been rumors at MLG Anaheim that MMA had been considering throwing the match with Boxer so that Boxer could have gotten the Code S spot instead of him. This of course did not happen, but certainly is not unconceivable) but what sets them apart was that they were foolish enough to broadcast their intentions.
Where exactly did this come from?
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On November 16 2011 07:01 cklrkzk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:
Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun.
Small or big, match fixing is killing esports nuff said.
No it is absolutely not 'nuff said'.
If I steal a candy bar from a store, sure it's wrong, but don't treat me like I was caught in some elaborate casino heist.
Was what he did wrong? Of course, should he be punished? Of course. In this manner? Absolutely not.
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I don't think I'd fault Stephano-Bratok all that bad because it was the tournaments fault for them wanting to both lose to each other. What happened is that the winner between them would have to face off against Sen, while the loser would have to face off against some not Sen person. Now I don't remember the tournament format, but the loser would of been better off than the winner in that circumstance so I would actually fault that to the tournament organizers. Eventually in the bo3 they were playing joke games and bratok had stephano beaten, but bratok gg'd out before stephano xD.
Also we don't have a system for a global punishment currently. There's no kespa 2.0
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On November 16 2011 07:08 KhAmun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:01 cklrkzk wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:
Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun.
Small or big, match fixing is killing esports nuff said. No it is absolutely not 'nuff said'. If I steal a candy bar from a store, sure it's wrong, but don't treat me like I was caught in some elaborate casino heist. Was what he did wrong? Of course, should he be punished? Of course. In this manner? Absolutely not.
Much better analogy. Comparing murder to murder isn't really accurate.
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Not sure if there should be a global system for this. Matchfixing is different on a case by case basis. The Stephano-Bratok debacle lead to hilarious games and would better be blamed on the tournament organisers. Conversely, the Coca-Byun incident was not only an example of immorality, but also an example of extreme stupidity and damages the legitimacy of that tournament.
After all, by their very nature, pro-gamers are a very competitive lot, and do not throw matches often or lightly.
Basically, what I'm saying is, this issue can and should be dealt with on a case by case basis. Also, the issue is most likely not very prevalent.
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On November 16 2011 07:08 KhAmun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:01 cklrkzk wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:
Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun.
Small or big, match fixing is killing esports nuff said. No it is absolutely not 'nuff said'. If I steal a candy bar from a store, sure it's wrong, but don't treat me like I was caught in some elaborate casino heist. Was what he did wrong? Of course, should he be punished? Of course. In this manner? Absolutely not.
Your analogy has some faults too. What CoCa did was not just steal a candy bar. He is a professional gamer and "match fixing" is one of the worst things a player can do in the professional starcraft world. In any other sport the athletes who match fix would be punished by atleast a suspension, it's quite common. But I do feel that Starcraft 2 hasn't reached that HIGH level yet and it does make CoCa's punishment seem very harsh and sudden.
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They should be more lenient on Coca. What Coca did was bad but his intention was far from that of Savior. He's not trying to kill E-sport, he simply made a mistake that I am sure he'll never make again. He's a young kid who made a very poor decision.
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The memory of savior demands that they overreact to any and all situations that may involve match fixing. They MUST send a message to everyone that they will be pro active on the issue and will not allow it in any way.
If nothing else it sends a message to everyone in sc2 about it. steph- brat-ok situation was understandable beacuse both wanted to lose in this case it was about winning.
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In all honesty, I think it's bullshit. It's the tournament's fault for not providing CoCa a reason to win the tournament, but providing a reason for him to give the win to Byun. I think it's only wrong if there are things like under the table betting/gambling going on - why would Coca try to win the tournament, really?
Obviously the whole incident being in game chat is silly, but still.
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I don't think you know what you're talking about: "Savior was a criminal who not only threw his own games, but created a gambling ring of progamers who would all throw games." Created a gambling ring?? I know that sounds bad, but what does that mean to you exactly? The illegal betting sites started already. I mean it's kind of the opposite of gambling to guarantee a loss. Only 'gambling' was with their dignity and careers.
I read a bit of the Coca incident. Enough to know that he's an incredible moron. I can't even get past that aspect of it. He types in chat about rigging the game and leaves when he is obviously way way ahead... Seriously? It's hard to feel sorry for someone that stupid. Even if you want to justify what he did as being nice to a teammate and being a silly, unpremeditated mistake... He's just so stupid... I mean... seriously... stupid....
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5/5 Excellent post. I could not have said it better.
On November 16 2011 07:07 Fawkes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:58 Bagration wrote:
What Coca and Byun did was probably not an isolated case, where a player gives a friend or teammate an advantage (in fact, there had been rumors at MLG Anaheim that MMA had been considering throwing the match with Boxer so that Boxer could have gotten the Code S spot instead of him. This of course did not happen, but certainly is not unconceivable) but what sets them apart was that they were foolish enough to broadcast their intentions.
Where exactly did this come from?
There are tons of rumors like this floating around. Notably Nestea and the Blizzcon thing, and there was a major one a while back with Sjow and Morrow being accused of fixing a match and splitting the prize.
They are for the most part just rumors, but Bagration is right, they so easily can turn into a full fledged witch hunt.
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Well DeMuslim forfeited that match because halfway thro the sets he remembered he had to be somewhere else(I think vacation with this girlfriend) and Stephano vs BratOK was different,not only they are friends,they didn't want to have to play Sen (whoever finished 1st on the pool had to play vs GamaniaSen(Ironically both BratOK and Stephano went to the Ro8)) on the bracket stages.
I think the CoCa x Byun thing was kind of charity not match fixing.But that's just my opinion.
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On November 16 2011 07:44 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
Well DeMuslim forfeited that match because halfway thro the sets he remembered he had to be somewhere else(I think vacation with this girlfriend) and Stephano vs BratOK was different,not only they are friends,they didn't want to have to play Sen (whoever finished 1st on the pool had to play vs GamaniaSen(Ironically both BratOK and Stephano went to the Ro8)) on the bracket stages.
I think the CoCa x Byun thing was kind of charity not match fixing.But that's just my opinion.
Sure, but that's super unfair for the person who doesn't get a spot because of this 'charity.' I mean it should have been the two people that needed the spot playing against each other, but what are you gonna do when the tournament organization is incompetent lol... It's unfair to the fans too, who want to see players move thru the tourney not because they have friends, but because they won their games. I mean, that's the reason matchfixing is bad... the fans don't get the games they were supposed to. What would happen if two finalists agreed to split the prizepool for 1st and 2nd place? Wow really exciting final when neither player cares, even though there is no betting or whatever...
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OP, I somehow doubt you've done all your research.
"Savior was a criminal who not only threw his own games, but created a gambling ring of progamers who would all throw games."
It's pretty well accepted that savior did NOT throw away his own games nor did he create a gambling ring. He was a broker.
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I will give credit to Coca for staying with Slayers. Many players might have bailed on Slayers and tried to find a foreign team to sign them, and keep the Code S spot. By voluntarily (as far as we know so far) forfeiting his Code S spot and accepting relegation to the B-team, Coca is displaying repentance for his actions and accepting the consequences.
I know if I had been in his situation, I would have been very tempted to hold on to that Code S spot, as though things are not exactly easy to come by.
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On November 16 2011 08:13 Arterial wrote:
OP, I somehow doubt you've done all your research.
"Savior was a criminal who not only threw his own games, but created a gambling ring of progamers who would all throw games."
It's pretty well accepted that savior did NOT throw away his own games nor did he create a gambling ring. He was a broker.
Yes, he was the middle-man who enabled the match-fixing. He was very highly regarded, especially by other progamers, and he was able to persuade other progamers to engage in match-fixing. He was the link that created the system, and profited from it.
As far as I know, savior never made any grand confession, and much of the scandal remains unknown. There are confirmed matches that were rigged, but only a select few know everything. I will admit that I am no insider to the match-fixing scandal nor the Coca controversy, and if you do have additional information, I would love to hear any additional information that you may have to offer.
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It was closer to some variation of sandbagging than matchfixing, that's why I have a real problem with people throwing around "match fixing" constantly.
BW matchfixing were people profiting off thrown games and being paid to throw them. This is one guy helping out a buddy when there was virtually no reason for him to want to beat him in the tournament in question. While they were stupid for doing it in public I can't blame them for doing it because frankly it made sense.
When you guys throw around match fixing for this type of thing in my opinion all you do is trivialize real match fixing, you make it into this really insignificant, white collar act that we all accept goes on regardless.
They were idiots but they did not do anything criminal. They have been punished way more than they deserve in my opinion.
I think the SC2 community is just far too eager for scandals to talk about on the internet to realize what they are doing to people sometimes.
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The punishment for this shouldn't be just 'enough' for the guys involved - it should be enough for anyone else who may have had same thoughts not to risk it ever again in future. It sucks for CoCa, but I'm sure he understands this well enough, and will come back soon enough all the more eager to get back into the spotlight.
Nevertheless, Coca is not savior. Savior was a criminal who not only threw his own games, but created a gambling ring of progamers who would all throw games.
Just because it always annoys me to see this thrown around as if it's fact, that was never confirmed, nor does it seems likely at all if you think about it. Savior was the mediator between other players who participated in matchfixing, and the people that actually ran the whole betting thing, but he was almost certainly not the person that masterminded the whole thing and made it all happen. He was more involved than the Sparkyz guys or whatever, but it's naive to think he was the only reason that whole thing went down.
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I know that Team Slayers is preparing to make an official statement shortly. Has an official statement come out from Prime or GSL?
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On November 16 2011 09:28 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Just because it always annoys me to see this thrown around as if it's fact, that was never confirmed, nor does it seems likely at all if you think about it. Savior was the mediator between other players who participated in matchfixing, and the people that actually ran the whole betting thing, but he was almost certainly not the person that masterminded the whole thing and made it all happen. He was more involved than the Sparkyz guys or whatever, but it's naive to think he was the only reason that whole thing went down.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=134759
He wasn't jsut a mediator but got other players involved as well.
I also don't think CoCa should be made an example out of simply because of the previous match fixing scandal. This isn't the same. There has been instances where SCBW progamers had thrown matches to avoid team kill scenarios. There's no difference.
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he doesnt have the mentality of a pro. it wouldnt matter much if it was a battlenet ladder match, but in a tournament and in gsl code S? i mean he's really a dumb ass and deserve the punishment. which team would like their members to throw away winning games?
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On November 16 2011 07:33 Forgottenfrog wrote:
They should be more lenient on Coca. What Coca did was bad but his intention was far from that of Savior. He's not trying to kill E-sport, he simply made a mistake that I am sure he'll never make again. He's a young kid who made a very poor decision.
Mistakes have penalties, what CoCa and Byun did was firmly dealt by their respective teams.
They correctly do not want to be perceived as being a team that condones match fixing at any level or at any price.
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EPT
