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On October 25 2011 13:52 icydergosu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Porcelain: I have only seen it in personal leasing businesses in addition to your resume. (europe)
SuperbWingman: Would you rather they tell you a fairy tale? Or are there really people out there who always wanted to work in a kids clothing store during the busiest season of the year only to get the boot after christmas season is over. 
Dude, I'm not looking for Mr. Type A go-getter personality. All i want to see from the candidate is if they have at the very least some form of feigned interest in the job they are asking me to give them.
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On October 25 2011 14:56 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 14:55 Roe wrote:
i dont understand the world anymore. i've been going to interviews willing to put up with any hours, be called in at any time, be payed as little as minimum wage, and do my best every single day and yet never get a job. What kind of job have you been applying for?
last one was dish washer at a restaurant, some others include stocking shelves and moving around inventory, as well as cleaning up garbage at an amusement park
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My first job I was actually offered. I didn't even have to apply. Just walked into a Little Caesars and I walked out with a job being one of those guys who flipped signs on a street corner. It was the easiest job, not a bad way to get some job experience. All I had to do was follow basic directions and things went pretty well. After about six months of that they moved me into the store and I couldn't leave fast enough. Working fast food is awful... at least for me.
Fast forward another year and I'm filling out my first application for Best Buy. I was sooooooo nervous for my interview. I thought they would ask really difficult questions. It was really just a walk in the park though. Really basic questions asking how you would handle situations and blah blah blah. I couldn't believe I got so worked up over nothing.
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On October 25 2011 14:52 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 14:39 IronMonocle wrote:On October 25 2011 14:11 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 25 2011 14:08 IronMonocle wrote:
You are awfully picky about who you hire for a seasonal position in a minimum wage dead end job. All business-owners or managers are because they are worried about the overall health and growth of their business. You're viewing it from a poor, dismissive and misunderstood position. Even if I can't fill out an application properly or do an interview properly, I still need a job, and this seasonal minimum wage job is the best i am going to get. Just because i can't do either of these things properly doesn't mean I can not do the job well. Just do YOUR job by training the employees you hire, and everything should work out fine. It is either that or future cheques from government welfare. You will eventually hire these clowns anyways when they get job application help from job agencies and the like. Stop complicating the process. The main thing you should look for when hiring is availability. That's fairly anecdotal and if you can't do the application properly or the interview, you won't necessarily get any job. You may be great at selling, but if you can't follow proper directions, protocol or procedure, you don't deserve the chance over those who put in the minimum amount of effort. If you want something, doing the mundane and seemingly pointless tasks is a good step in that direction. The process isn't getting complicated, it's the standard. Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 14:49 IronMonocle wrote:On October 25 2011 14:45 Porcelain wrote:On October 25 2011 14:39 IronMonocle wrote:On October 25 2011 14:11 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 25 2011 14:08 IronMonocle wrote:
You are awfully picky about who you hire for a seasonal position in a minimum wage dead end job. All business-owners or managers are because they are worried about the overall health and growth of their business. You're viewing it from a poor, dismissive and misunderstood position. Even if I can't fill out an application properly or do an interview properly, I still need a job, and this seasonal minimum wage job is the best i am going to get. Just because i can't do either of these things properly doesn't mean I can not do the job well. Just do YOUR job by training the employees you hire, and everything should work out fine. It is either that or future cheques from government welfare. You will eventually hire these clowns anyways when they get job application help from job agencies and the like. Stop complicating the process. The main thing you should look for when hiring is availability. If a business only viewed having a certain amount of availability as a requirement for hiring most would not succeed. They would inevitably fail. You must have very little business knowledge. Ah, so I have very little business knowledge. Classic argumentum ad hominem. It's the assumption you have little business knowledge given how you couldn't assess the importance of basic procedure and how its valued for certain small or even large corporate businesses. Now I'm defending, pft :B
Torte, when I read that... I honestly wasn't going to respond because I wanted to wait for you to comment. LOL. :B
On October 25 2011 14:55 Roe wrote:
i dont understand the world anymore. i've been going to interviews willing to put up with any hours, be called in at any time, be payed as little as minimum wage, and do my best every single day and yet never get a job.
It must be the types of jobs you're applying for. Perhaps you lack experience? I will hire people with no background in retail as long as they come off as a good fit.
My company only pays minimum wage if you do not have retail experience. But, someone who does not have any experience must make up for it in another way. Which is as easy as being super upbeat and friendly, honestly!
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On October 25 2011 15:03 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 14:56 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 25 2011 14:55 Roe wrote:
i dont understand the world anymore. i've been going to interviews willing to put up with any hours, be called in at any time, be payed as little as minimum wage, and do my best every single day and yet never get a job. What kind of job have you been applying for? last one was dish washer at a restaurant, some others include stocking shelves and moving around inventory, as well as cleaning up garbage at an amusement park
So basically jobs anyone can apply for.
Sounds like tough competition, what makes you stand out from all the rest?
Torte, when I read that... I honestly wasn't going to respond because I wanted to wait for you to comment. LOL. :B
It's a condition, I swear!
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On October 25 2011 14:57 matjlav wrote:
I find it interesting that you are skeptical of the high school students' working abilities.
In my experience with unskilled labor, it's the 16-18 year-olds that would be generally harder-working than the 20-somethings, mostly because they tend to not have been in the workforce to not be completely jaded about their employment. But that's just my limited experience.
I have two high school kids on staff currently. They're too many work restrictions regarding minors and they're availability tends to be pretty limited.
I do agree though, I have worked with some awesome teens who work harder than your average 20 something. It's too much of a gamble though, and my store manager is against it. (I'm the assistant manager, so it's not entirely up to me.)
On October 25 2011 15:02 SuperbWingman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 13:52 icydergosu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Porcelain: I have only seen it in personal leasing businesses in addition to your resume. (europe)
SuperbWingman: Would you rather they tell you a fairy tale? Or are there really people out there who always wanted to work in a kids clothing store during the busiest season of the year only to get the boot after christmas season is over. Dude, I'm not looking for Mr. Type A go-getter personality. All i want to see from the candidate is if they have at the very least some form of feigned interest in the job they are asking me to give them.
They don't always "get the boot" after Christmas. I would LOVE to have one or two work out for long term employment.
Yes, interest in the job they're applying for is nice.... lol
On October 25 2011 15:05 Crimson wrote:
My first job I was actually offered. I didn't even have to apply. Just walked into a Little Caesars and I walked out with a job being one of those guys who flipped signs on a street corner. It was the easiest job, not a bad way to get some job experience. All I had to do was follow basic directions and things went pretty well. After about six months of that they moved me into the store and I couldn't leave fast enough. Working fast food is awful... at least for me.
Fast forward another year and I'm filling out my first application for Best Buy. I was sooooooo nervous for my interview. I thought they would ask really difficult questions. It was really just a walk in the park though. Really basic questions asking how you would handle situations and blah blah blah. I couldn't believe I got so worked up over nothing.
I can tell when people are nervous, I always give them the benefit of the doubt. I think it shows that they care and really want the job! Most of my interviews are pretty casual and I try to be really friendly so they're comfortable anyway.
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On October 25 2011 15:07 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 15:03 Roe wrote:On October 25 2011 14:56 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 25 2011 14:55 Roe wrote:
i dont understand the world anymore. i've been going to interviews willing to put up with any hours, be called in at any time, be payed as little as minimum wage, and do my best every single day and yet never get a job. What kind of job have you been applying for? last one was dish washer at a restaurant, some others include stocking shelves and moving around inventory, as well as cleaning up garbage at an amusement park So basically jobs anyone can apply for. Sounds like tough competition, what makes you stand out from all the rest? Show nested quote +Torte, when I read that... I honestly wasn't going to respond because I wanted to wait for you to comment. LOL. :B It's a condition, I swear!
beyond any generic "i'll work hard through hard times" type stuff, i can't come up with anythign  unless diamond level sc2 is something to be proud of, lol.
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On October 25 2011 15:59 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 15:07 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 25 2011 15:03 Roe wrote:On October 25 2011 14:56 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 25 2011 14:55 Roe wrote:
i dont understand the world anymore. i've been going to interviews willing to put up with any hours, be called in at any time, be payed as little as minimum wage, and do my best every single day and yet never get a job. What kind of job have you been applying for? last one was dish washer at a restaurant, some others include stocking shelves and moving around inventory, as well as cleaning up garbage at an amusement park So basically jobs anyone can apply for. Sounds like tough competition, what makes you stand out from all the rest? Torte, when I read that... I honestly wasn't going to respond because I wanted to wait for you to comment. LOL. :B It's a condition, I swear! beyond any generic "i'll work hard through hard times" type stuff, i can't come up with anythign unless diamond level sc2 is something to be proud of, lol.
Maybe that's something you need to work for.
Unless of course, you feel you don't deserve the job more than others, in which case the outcome is as predicted :B
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Are you interviewing for summer positions already? If so, I need to get on applying at places...
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Why would you cut up a TL shirt? :-(
When you said "associates" I thought you were hiring for some sort of professional firm, and so the green pen and other mistakes seemed weird. Then I was shocked when you said you did the reference check before the interview. But then you mentioned it was for retail and it made sense. :-)
I guess retail is a different world, but it still seems strange to me. Why do you do a reference check before you're sure you want to hire them? I would hesitate to apply to any organisation that conducts reference checks before the interview, but I guess your target workforce aren't in a position to complain, or have too little experience to understand why it's not good for them as candidates.
Wow at those telling Porcelain how to do her job. With 9% unemployment, any business can afford to be picky.
Roe, if you can't get a paying job, do volunteer work if you can afford to. Make a good impression, work hard, get a good reference. Then potential employers will have proof that you're a hard worker.
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I really wish i could do the interviews here. The people that end up getting hired are... well, not the people i would chose. I sometimes feel like the only question they actually care about is "how much do you want to earn?"... if it's higher than minimum wage, they don't get hired.
If the person that get hired for a fulltime programming job "with 5 years programming experience" can't even write a simple "hello world" program and needs 3 weeks for a simple guestbook, you know there must be something wrong in the interviews.
Incompetence can be on both sides of the interviewing table :-/
However, for a seasonal job i can imagine that the applicants are even worse.
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On October 25 2011 14:39 IronMonocle wrote:
Even if I can't fill out an application properly or do an interview properly, I still need a job, and this seasonal minimum wage job is the best i am going to get. Just because i can't do either of these things properly doesn't mean I can not do the job well. Just do YOUR job by training the employees you hire, and everything should work out fine. It is either that or future cheques from government welfare. You will eventually hire these clowns anyways when they get job application help from job agencies and the like. Stop complicating the process. The main thing you should look for when hiring is availability.
Reminds me of this Onion story.
It's above the responsibility of your employer to teach you how to communicate well, you should have learned that from school or your family or your friends or whatever. Considering basically anyone can throw on a fake smile, count inventory and ring in kids' clothes on a cash register, how would you suggest narrowing the field of applicants?
It seems like the OP is following a generally good procedure for narrowing down applicants:
1) Improperly filled out applications immediately ignored.
2) People who lie on their applications (kudos to the OP for following up on references) not interviewed
3) People who answer questions in a dismissive, retarded or overtly hostile way not called back.
4) You still have a lot of non-braindead, able-bodied, minimally articulate folks to choose from!
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United States9645 Posts
On October 25 2011 15:03 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 14:56 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 25 2011 14:55 Roe wrote:
i dont understand the world anymore. i've been going to interviews willing to put up with any hours, be called in at any time, be payed as little as minimum wage, and do my best every single day and yet never get a job. What kind of job have you been applying for? last one was dish washer at a restaurant, some others include stocking shelves and moving around inventory, as well as cleaning up garbage at an amusement park
Maybe your over qualified?
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On October 25 2011 21:29 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 14:11 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 25 2011 14:08 IronMonocle wrote:
You are awfully picky about who you hire for a seasonal position in a minimum wage dead end job. All business-owners or managers are because they are worried about the overall health and growth of their business. You're viewing it from a poor, dismissive and misunderstood position. Still, you get what you ask for. Want well written resumes with plenty of good referrals and etc etc? Then make the position interesting for people willing to provide them. It's like buying some cheap chinese smartphone wannabe and then complaining that it aint iphone.
That's not at all the scenario and the analogy furthers your misconstruing o_o
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On October 25 2011 13:48 Porcelain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 13:38 SuperbWingman wrote:
I love the ones that respond to "What made you interested in applying for our company?" with "Because i need a job." Just no effort or thought put into it whatsoever. laughably weak. Ugh! I hear this SO MUCH too. : / You'd think people would know better. It's common sense, right?!
While I do agree that "Because I need a job" comes of rather arrogant I believe in answering these questions honestly. The job I am at now asked me during my interview why I wanted to work for them and i answered: "I'm looking for a job in this city, I want to move here with my family, I want to stay in the same business as I'm already in and I heard good things about you."
Maybe not an ideal answer to that question to make them want to hire me but I'm not good enough of a liar to pull off some "Oh, this job is sooo inspiring and all I wanted as a child was to work with engineering quality..." so I just go with the truth.
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I've got a serious question. I've had a resume ready and updated every month or so since forever but I cringe everytime there is one of these applications that makes me list all my previous employers. I have them all listed on my resume! I don't like taking the 30 minute to look up each and every address and zip code and phone number of where I worked (I keep a cheat sheet for this now though since it has happened so many times...) Is it ever acceptable to just hand in the application with my resume and write in that section 'see resume?' I have avoided applying to more than one position because I didn't want to spend an hour filling that section out.
Yes I have more than 5 previous jobs and yes = / that section always takes the longest = (
maybe I'm being a whiny bitch here but what is the point of a resume if you have to write all the info twice?
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On October 25 2011 23:06 Cuddle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 13:48 Porcelain wrote:On October 25 2011 13:38 SuperbWingman wrote:
I love the ones that respond to "What made you interested in applying for our company?" with "Because i need a job." Just no effort or thought put into it whatsoever. laughably weak. Ugh! I hear this SO MUCH too. : / You'd think people would know better. It's common sense, right?! While I do agree that "Because I need a job" comes of rather arrogant I believe in answering these questions honestly. The job I am at now asked me during my interview why I wanted to work for them and i answered: "I'm looking for a job in this city, I want to move here with my family, I want to stay in the same business as I'm already in and I heard good things about you." Maybe not an ideal answer to that question to make them want to hire me but I'm not good enough of a liar to pull off some "Oh, this job is sooo inspiring and all I wanted as a child was to work with engineering quality..." so I just go with the truth.
There's a fine line between being sincere and still properly representing yourself.
The question is a way of finding out why you want the job more than someone else. You listed generalities and although they're not looking for you to lie, they're also not wanting to know your personal reasons why you want the job, but rather what makes this job different from any other job?
If there is no difference, then you clearly have find no importance in getting this job over another and the person will probably wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
You don't portray much by saying that you need a job in the city and want to move here.
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United States5162 Posts
On October 25 2011 23:40 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 23:06 Cuddle wrote:On October 25 2011 13:48 Porcelain wrote:On October 25 2011 13:38 SuperbWingman wrote:
I love the ones that respond to "What made you interested in applying for our company?" with "Because i need a job." Just no effort or thought put into it whatsoever. laughably weak. Ugh! I hear this SO MUCH too. : / You'd think people would know better. It's common sense, right?! While I do agree that "Because I need a job" comes of rather arrogant I believe in answering these questions honestly. The job I am at now asked me during my interview why I wanted to work for them and i answered: "I'm looking for a job in this city, I want to move here with my family, I want to stay in the same business as I'm already in and I heard good things about you." Maybe not an ideal answer to that question to make them want to hire me but I'm not good enough of a liar to pull off some "Oh, this job is sooo inspiring and all I wanted as a child was to work with engineering quality..." so I just go with the truth. There's a fine line between being sincere and still properly representing yourself. The question is a way of finding out why you want the job more than someone else. You listed generalities and although they're not looking for you to lie, they're also not wanting to know your personal reasons why you want the job, but rather what makes this job different from any other job? If there is no difference, then you clearly have find no importance in getting this job over another and the person will probably wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. You don't portray much by saying that you need a job in the city and want to move here.
It's a retail job, it's not different from a million others. They want the job because they want/need money. The best answer I can think of without being complete bs is 'get my foot in the door'.
I get what the OP is saying, but I feel you're taking this a bit far. If you go for a retail job, and they expect more then common sense to fill out a app, promptness, and a good attitude, well I don't know what to say except good luck finding employees to work your minimum wage job.
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I would agree with those who say "why do you want this job" is not a particularly useful question in this circumstance because it's seasonal, minimum-wage retail. That question only becomes important, at a minimum, when it's full-time.
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EPT
