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Active: 9830 users

Pronouncing "XiGua" - Page 2

Blogs > Kraznaya
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Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
August 16 2011 13:37 GMT
#21
I don't know about local dialects (I came from the metropolitan areas) but it's not really 'sh' is it? For 'j' 'q' and 'x' you pronounce it a bit differently than you would expect. There's not really a corresponding English syllable.
raviy
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia207 Posts
August 16 2011 13:44 GMT
#22
On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)


Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.


Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".


What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.

Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.


I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi.

There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi".

Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.
MaGariShun
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria305 Posts
August 16 2011 13:50 GMT
#23
On August 16 2011 20:48 conTAgi0n wrote:
Ignoring the implication that there is a proper way to use the Roman alphabet, the eccentricities of English spelling have nothing to do with why people don't intuitively understand how XiGua should be pronounced.

You just say that like it's a proven fact. Of course there are other problems with romanization too, but an English speaker (americans even more so it seems, because of their pronounciation), who is pronouncing the very same characters differently than say a french, german, italian etc., will obviously have problems reading something romanized using the "standard" (note the quotes) pronounciation of the latin alphabet. I am not saying english speakers are using the characters "wrong", but they need to understand that their pronounciation is not the common one and is in fact very specific to their language.
Using a romanization for english speakers, like proposed in the OP, will only help english speakers and confuse almost every other language that uses the roman alphabet.
fOrQQ
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Hong Kong321 Posts
August 16 2011 14:36 GMT
#24
In Cantonese it is pronounced "Sai Gwa" :D
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
August 16 2011 14:39 GMT
#25
On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)


Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.


Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".


What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.

Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.

lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin?
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 15:13:27
August 16 2011 14:44 GMT
#26
On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:
On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)


Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.


Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".


What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.

Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.


I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi.

There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi".

Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.


xi is pronounced "shee," si is pronounced "see," ci is "tsee," shi is "shee" fuck i suck at pinyin

there is definitely an "h" in the pronunciation of "xi."

and we also call taiwanese "taiwanese" or daiwanwei. lol? no one in taiwan calls it min nan, just like how we say "guo yu" instead of "putong hua." if you're referring to the indigenous aboriginal language, they might no longer be as widely spoken but they certainly still exist.
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 15:22:28
August 16 2011 15:11 GMT
#27
On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:
On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)


Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.


Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".


What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.

Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.


I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi.

There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi".

Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.


Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes:

Xi = shee
Si = sssss
Ci = tssss
Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english)
Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue)

Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign.
+ Apply the correct intonation depending on the words.

Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get.

If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about.

On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin?


That's an affirmative.
Logic is Overrated
Resolve
Profile Joined August 2010
Singapore679 Posts
August 16 2011 15:33 GMT
#28
stop arguing whether it's shee or see for xi, different places have different accents for mandarin... there's no right or wrong -_- a mandarin speaker will recognise both shee guah and see guah...
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
August 16 2011 15:46 GMT
#29
On August 17 2011 00:11 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:
On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:
On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)


Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.


Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".


What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.

Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.


I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi.

There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi".

Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.


Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes:

Xi = shee
Si = sssss
Ci = tssss
Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english)
Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue)

Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign.
+ Apply the correct intonation depending on the words.

Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get.

If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about.

Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin?


That's an affirmative.

... ok that's definitely regional differences then

Rolling your tongue, really? Are you sure you're not conflicting the following vowel with the consonant?
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
August 16 2011 15:52 GMT
#30
On August 17 2011 00:11 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:
On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:
On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)


Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.


Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".


What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.

Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.


I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi.

There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi".

Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.


Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes:

Xi = shee
Si = sssss
Ci = tssss
Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english)
Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue)

Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign.
+ Apply the correct intonation depending on the words.

Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get.

If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about.

Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin?


That's an affirmative.

And yet you don't acknowledge the variations in accents across different regions, even within China. Interesting.
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
SarR
Profile Joined June 2011
476 Posts
August 16 2011 15:58 GMT
#31
On August 16 2011 17:21 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 17:19 SarR wrote:
Reading this blog reminds me of how curious I was about the correct pronunciation of "XiaOzl". How would that be pronounced anyway ?


its pronounced 小子

what ?
Chromyne
Profile Joined January 2008
Canada561 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 16:03:02
August 16 2011 15:59 GMT
#32
On August 17 2011 00:46 Redmark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 00:11 Newbistic wrote:
On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:
On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:
On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)


Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.


Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".


What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.

Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.


I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi.

There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi".

Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.


Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes:

Xi = shee
Si = sssss
Ci = tssss
Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english)
Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue)

Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign.
+ Apply the correct intonation depending on the words.

Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get.

If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about.

On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin?


That's an affirmative.

... ok that's definitely regional differences then

Rolling your tongue, really? Are you sure you're not conflicting the following vowel with the consonant?


I don't think he really meant rolling the 'r'. That doesn't sound like any Mandarin I've heard.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a native Mandarin speaker, but I am Chinese and have learned Mandarin.

Xi = she (EDIT: I admit xi != she, but I can't think of a more accurate romanization)
Si = can't think of a romanization, closest is s+ugh (like 'ugh, that's disgusting' without the gh sound... not sure if that makes sense)
Ci = ts+ugh like Si
Shi = like sure, or Shure. I guess less of the 'r' depending on how thick your accent is or where you're from XD.
Chi = like Shi but with a ch, like churro
Soli Deo gloria.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 16 2011 16:00 GMT
#33
x != sh. They are similar, but not the same.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
August 16 2011 16:37 GMT
#34
On August 17 2011 00:52 Ryo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 00:11 Newbistic wrote:
On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:
On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:
On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:
On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)


Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.


Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".


What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.

Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.


I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi.

There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi".

Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.


Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes:

Xi = shee
Si = sssss
Ci = tssss
Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english)
Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue)

Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign.
+ Apply the correct intonation depending on the words.

Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get.

If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about.

On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin?


That's an affirmative.

And yet you don't acknowledge the variations in accents across different regions, even within China. Interesting.


Ugh, I think I'm just digging myself into a hole arguing against idiots here, but dude...

YES, there are hundreds of different accents and dialects, but there is a single standard dialect and pronunciation deemed to be the official dialect and pronunciation method, and it is called Mandarin. That's what's being argued here. Pinyin is designed to be used with this official dialect, NOT with other Chinese dialects. What I have written is the correct pronunciation of these letters IN MANDARIN.

Seriously, if you're not even Chinese why the fuck are you arguing about things you don't know about.

On August 17 2011 00:59 Chromyne wrote:
I don't think he really meant rolling the 'r'. That doesn't sound like any Mandarin I've heard.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a native Mandarin speaker, but I am Chinese and have learned Mandarin.

Xi = she (EDIT: I admit xi != she, but I can't think of a more accurate romanization)
Si = can't think of a romanization, closest is s+ugh (like 'ugh, that's disgusting' without the gh sound... not sure if that makes sense)
Ci = ts+ugh like Si
Shi = like sure, or Shure. I guess less of the 'r' depending on how thick your accent is or where you're from XD.
Chi = like Shi but with a ch, like churro


I meant everything I wrote.

I am a native born speaker of Mandarin Chinese. Are you? No? Then stop spreading misinformation about shit you don't fully understand. I doubt you can even pronounce the words properly with what you have written.

"Si" does NOT have an "ugh" sound. It's just flat "sssss" with whatever intonation the word is assigned. Sound it out, or have someone who actually knows how to speak the language sound it out for you.

Jesus Christ people, if you don't know Mandarin Chinese don't fucking post misinformation. Suddenly everyone's an expert.
Logic is Overrated
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
August 16 2011 16:39 GMT
#35
Who care, really, most Chinese(except for Beijing and North Eastern China) cant pronounce s/sh very good. I mean like the s in 四 and the sh in 十 are pronounce the same in many part in Southern china.
Terran
Diglett
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
600 Posts
August 16 2011 16:41 GMT
#36
if you know pinyin then xigua is actually pronouned xigua -_-
j0k3r
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States577 Posts
August 16 2011 16:47 GMT
#37
Wow ryo I have no clue wat your saying. This dude is right 100%
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
August 16 2011 17:49 GMT
#38
just call him a bloody watermelon sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
August 16 2011 18:01 GMT
#39
Newbistic, yes I am a native Mandarin speaker. Yes, I realize that there is a standard way to pronounce pinyin, that is the only reason I'm even arguing this. How about you steer away from the random ad hominem? I agree with your explanation of si and ci, but x is not sh and rolling your tongue is at best misleading.
Honestly not sure why you're so angry.
Melchior
Profile Joined January 2011
United States112 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 19:19:46
August 16 2011 19:08 GMT
#40
Newbistic is definitely closest to the mark here. The tongue curls up a bit more towards the back of the mouth for "shi", whereas for "xi" the tongue is flatter and touches the teeth on both sides (at least when I say it). Sure, neither "xi" nor "shi" are pronounced exacly as "shee", but it's closer to "xi" in my opinion.

I think the only possible confusion with "rolling the tongue" might be that "捲舌" is typically used to describe the "ü" sound.

EDIT: And for the person who asked about XiaOzl before, "zi" is probably best approximated as "ds" or "dz" as in "friends". So, something like sheeow (as one syllable) ds, ignoring any tones.
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