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I'M NOT A LINGUIST IF ANYONE CAN SUM THIS UP BETTER PLEASE DO SO AND I WILL EDIT TO OP 
So, ever since winning G-League, XiGua's name has been popping up a lot in discussions and casts, and he's widely known as China's best Zerg player in SC2. Of course, being a Chinese name, XiGua can be pretty fucking hard for westerners to pronounce, and I really don't enjoy it when his name is mutilated by people attempting to talk about "Zeegoah." This is a quick and dirty pronunciation guide.
Obviously, it's pretty fucking hard to approximate tones foreign to English on text for readers attempting to read words in anglicized tones, so for most people I advise just using the simplest pronunciation for his name possible, Watermelon. Yep, that's what his name means in Chinese. Wasn't that easy? :p
DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS: LISTEN THIS INSTEAD:
http://translate.google.com/#en|zh-CN|watermelon
For those who actually want to attempt the Chinese pronunciation, it's something approximately close to the "shee" in "banshee," rising in tone, and "gwah."
But wait, why don't the Chinese just write it as Sheegwah and save English speakers a lot of trouble? Well, Pinyin is an Romanization, not an Anglicization. Its rules don't conform at all with English pronunciation, because English is only one of many languages using the Roman alphabet.
![[image loading]](http://nerdmeltla.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/the-more-you-know.jpg)
 
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what a bad blog
you pronounce it 西瓜, not "xigua" or "shee gwah"
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Reading this blog reminds me of how curious I was about the correct pronunciation of "XiaOzl". How would that be pronounced anyway ?
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On August 16 2011 17:19 SarR wrote:
Reading this blog reminds me of how curious I was about the correct pronunciation of "XiaOzl". How would that be pronounced anyway ?
its pronounced 小子
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I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)
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On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone)
Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.
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Foreigners will still pronounce it wrong because they don't know tones.
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It's see guu-wah. All chinese characters are 1 syllable mind you
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I find it mostly being Americans acting as ignorant as they usually are who can not pronounce Asian names/words. If you would all move to Sweden instead of US you would be able to keep your Chinese names instead of changing to something Western just because people can't pronounce your real name. :-D
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On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin.
Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".
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How about English speakers writing stuff like it is pronounced? We wouldn't have all those threads if you used the latin alphabet properly like (almost) everyone else
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OP is wrong, neither the xi nor the gua in xigua is rising in tone, they're both pronounced with a high, flat tone.
On August 16 2011 18:09 MaGariShun wrote:
How about English speakers writing stuff like it is pronounced? We wouldn't have all those threads if you used the latin alphabet properly like (almost) everyone else
even disregarding the fact that xigua is about as proper a spelling as it gets (minus the tones), you can't write out how they're pronounced using the latin alphabet because the latin alphabet doesn't contain all the sounds a person is able to make.
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5/5 for DISREGARD THIS I SUCK COCKS. Either you've reached the acceptance stage or your funny.
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best blog
its like a 2/10 thread though on /b/ -.-
+2 if you put in butthurt in every sentence
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OP is right, its a romanization, we swedes never have any trouble pronouncing it like its written. Seeing the anglified version of hangul makes me wanna puke since it is so off
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5/5 for admitting to sucking phallic groin growth :3
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On August 16 2011 18:09 MaGariShun wrote:
How about English speakers writing stuff like it is pronounced? We wouldn't have all those threads if you used the latin alphabet properly like (almost) everyone else
The latin alphabet? You don't really know how languages work, do you... Posting everything in the international phonetic alphabet, sure, that might work, but almost nobody knows it, and I'm not sure your average internet forum can handle all the diacritics needed for a tonal language.
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United States335 Posts
On August 16 2011 17:19 rauk wrote:
what a bad blog
you pronounce it 西瓜, not "xigua" or "shee gwah"
Saying that something is pronounced "西瓜" makes no sense, since the characters don't denote anything about pronunciation. In fact, there are several different correct pronunciations of 西瓜, as all Chinese dialects (really they are different enough to be separate languages) use the same characters. Romanization systems work by assigning a Roman letter or letters to each sound in the Romanized language. Therefore xīguā is a perfectly correct representation of how watermelon is pronounced in Mandarin Chinese, if you understand pinyin.
On August 16 2011 18:09 MaGariShun wrote:
How about English speakers writing stuff like it is pronounced? We wouldn't have all those threads if you used the latin alphabet properly like (almost) everyone else
Ignoring the implication that there is a proper way to use the Roman alphabet, the eccentricities of English spelling have nothing to do with why people don't intuitively understand how XiGua should be pronounced. The issue is that Romanization systems require some degree of training to fully understand. This is because, as I stated above, Roman letters are assigned sounds from the language being Romanized that don't necessarily correspond perfectly to their usual pronunciation. For example,"c" in pinyin sounds more like "ts," and I believe in other Romanization systems that sound is Romanized as "ts." Pinyin is by far the most common Romanization system for Mandarin though.
On August 16 2011 17:59 Sorkoas wrote:
I find it mostly being Americans acting as ignorant as they usually are who can not pronounce Asian names/words. If you would all move to Sweden instead of US you would be able to keep your Chinese names instead of changing to something Western just because people can't pronounce your real name. :-D
Don't be hatin on Americans. People of any nationality will have difficulty pronouncing names from languages they don't speak that use a very different set of sounds. A lot of people I know from China do use their Chinese name in the US. Of course that's just personal experience; I don't have the statistical information to make any broader generalizations about what proportion of Chinese don't use their Chinese names in the US or what their reasons are.
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On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee".
What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period.
Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.
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I don't know about local dialects (I came from the metropolitan areas) but it's not really 'sh' is it? For 'j' 'q' and 'x' you pronounce it a bit differently than you would expect. There's not really a corresponding English syllable.
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On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee". What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period. Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.
I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi.
There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi".
Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.
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On August 16 2011 20:48 conTAgi0n wrote:
Ignoring the implication that there is a proper way to use the Roman alphabet, the eccentricities of English spelling have nothing to do with why people don't intuitively understand how XiGua should be pronounced.
You just say that like it's a proven fact. Of course there are other problems with romanization too, but an English speaker (americans even more so it seems, because of their pronounciation), who is pronouncing the very same characters differently than say a french, german, italian etc., will obviously have problems reading something romanized using the "standard" (note the quotes) pronounciation of the latin alphabet. I am not saying english speakers are using the characters "wrong", but they need to understand that their pronounciation is not the common one and is in fact very specific to their language.
Using a romanization for english speakers, like proposed in the OP, will only help english speakers and confuse almost every other language that uses the roman alphabet.
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In Cantonese it is pronounced "Sai Gwa" :D
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On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee". What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period. Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation.
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin?
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On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee". What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period. Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation. I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi. There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi". Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.
xi is pronounced "shee," si is pronounced "see," ci is "tsee," shi is "shee" fuck i suck at pinyin
there is definitely an "h" in the pronunciation of "xi."
and we also call taiwanese "taiwanese" or daiwanwei. lol? no one in taiwan calls it min nan, just like how we say "guo yu" instead of "putong hua." if you're referring to the indigenous aboriginal language, they might no longer be as widely spoken but they certainly still exist.
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On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee". What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period. Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation. I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi. There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi". Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua.
Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes:
Xi = shee
Si = sssss
Ci = tssss
Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english)
Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue)
Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign.
+ Apply the correct intonation depending on the words.
Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get.
If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about.
On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin?
That's an affirmative.
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stop arguing whether it's shee or see for xi, different places have different accents for mandarin... there's no right or wrong -_- a mandarin speaker will recognise both shee guah and see guah...
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On August 17 2011 00:11 Newbistic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee". What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period. Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation. I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi. There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi". Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua. Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes: Xi = shee Si = sssss Ci = tssss Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english) Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue) Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign. + Apply the correct intonation depending on the words. Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get. If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about. Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin? That's an affirmative.
... ok that's definitely regional differences then
Rolling your tongue, really? Are you sure you're not conflicting the following vowel with the consonant?
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On August 17 2011 00:11 Newbistic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee". What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period. Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation. I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi. There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi". Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua. Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes: Xi = shee Si = sssss Ci = tssss Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english) Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue) Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign. + Apply the correct intonation depending on the words. Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get. If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about. Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin? That's an affirmative.
And yet you don't acknowledge the variations in accents across different regions, even within China. Interesting.
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On August 16 2011 17:21 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 17:19 SarR wrote:
Reading this blog reminds me of how curious I was about the correct pronunciation of "XiaOzl". How would that be pronounced anyway ? its pronounced 小子
what ?
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On August 17 2011 00:46 Redmark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 00:11 Newbistic wrote:On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee". What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period. Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation. I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi. There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi". Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua. Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes: Xi = shee Si = sssss Ci = tssss Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english) Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue) Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign. + Apply the correct intonation depending on the words. Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get. If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about. On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin? That's an affirmative. ... ok that's definitely regional differences then Rolling your tongue, really? Are you sure you're not conflicting the following vowel with the consonant?
I don't think he really meant rolling the 'r'. That doesn't sound like any Mandarin I've heard.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a native Mandarin speaker, but I am Chinese and have learned Mandarin.
Xi = she (EDIT: I admit xi != she, but I can't think of a more accurate romanization)
Si = can't think of a romanization, closest is s+ugh (like 'ugh, that's disgusting' without the gh sound... not sure if that makes sense)
Ci = ts+ugh like Si
Shi = like sure, or Shure. I guess less of the 'r' depending on how thick your accent is or where you're from XD.
Chi = like Shi but with a ch, like churro
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x != sh. They are similar, but not the same.
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On August 17 2011 00:52 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 00:11 Newbistic wrote:On August 16 2011 22:44 raviy wrote:On August 16 2011 21:26 Newbistic wrote:On August 16 2011 18:07 saritenite wrote:On August 16 2011 17:40 Kraznaya wrote:On August 16 2011 17:37 saritenite wrote:
I'm Chinese. It's pronounced See (monotone) - Guu-ah (monotone) Sh sounds -> s tends to be a Southern Chinese variation from what I've heard, and isn't standard Mandarin. Both work and both are standard. Different accents from different dialect backgrounds, but both are accepted as standard. But foreigners will have an easier time saying "see" rather than "shee". What? Mandarin is the official dialect for mainland China and even Taiwan uses a variation of Mandarin (they call it Taiwanese). The "X" letter is pronounced "sh" in Mandarin. This is the standard and correct pronunciation, period. Maybe it's pronounced "s" in Singapore but that doesn't make it standard; it's simply a deviation used by a geographically isolated population. To compare to the English language, you wouldn't call pronouncing the word "nine" in the southern drawl as "naaahhne" as standard, it's a deviation. I have trouble believing you're from China. Because if "X" is pronounced "sh", then explain to me the phonetic difference between Xi, Si, Ci, Shi, and Chi. There is no "h" in the pronunciation of "Xi". Also, when did the Taiwanese refer to Mandarin as "Taiwanese". There is no such thing as a Taiwanese language. They speak mostly Mandarin and Min Nan Hua. Lol? Prepare to be owned. The transliteration of pinyin syllables to english language sounds isn't perfect using the alphabet, but here goes: Xi = shee Si = sssss Ci = tssss Shi = Shrr (Make the "shhhh" sound while rolling your tongue like when pronouncing "er" in American english) Chi = Chrrr (make the "chhhh" sound while rolling your tongue) Assume American English pronunciation for all sounds to the right of the equal sign. + Apply the correct intonation depending on the words. Where the fuck are you from? I was born in China and know how to pronounce Mandarin. "shee" may not be absolutely perfect in describing the sound, but it's about as close as you can get. If you're white and you pronounce "xigua" as "shee gwahh" Mandarin speakers will know what you're talking about. On August 16 2011 23:39 Ryo wrote:
lol Are you really a native speaker of mandarin? That's an affirmative. And yet you don't acknowledge the variations in accents across different regions, even within China. Interesting.
Ugh, I think I'm just digging myself into a hole arguing against idiots here, but dude...
YES, there are hundreds of different accents and dialects, but there is a single standard dialect and pronunciation deemed to be the official dialect and pronunciation method, and it is called Mandarin. That's what's being argued here. Pinyin is designed to be used with this official dialect, NOT with other Chinese dialects. What I have written is the correct pronunciation of these letters IN MANDARIN.
Seriously, if you're not even Chinese why the fuck are you arguing about things you don't know about.
On August 17 2011 00:59 Chromyne wrote:
I don't think he really meant rolling the 'r'. That doesn't sound like any Mandarin I've heard.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a native Mandarin speaker, but I am Chinese and have learned Mandarin.
Xi = she (EDIT: I admit xi != she, but I can't think of a more accurate romanization)
Si = can't think of a romanization, closest is s+ugh (like 'ugh, that's disgusting' without the gh sound... not sure if that makes sense)
Ci = ts+ugh like Si
Shi = like sure, or Shure. I guess less of the 'r' depending on how thick your accent is or where you're from XD.
Chi = like Shi but with a ch, like churro
I meant everything I wrote.
I am a native born speaker of Mandarin Chinese. Are you? No? Then stop spreading misinformation about shit you don't fully understand. I doubt you can even pronounce the words properly with what you have written.
"Si" does NOT have an "ugh" sound. It's just flat "sssss" with whatever intonation the word is assigned. Sound it out, or have someone who actually knows how to speak the language sound it out for you.
Jesus Christ people, if you don't know Mandarin Chinese don't fucking post misinformation. Suddenly everyone's an expert.
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Who care, really, most Chinese(except for Beijing and North Eastern China) cant pronounce s/sh very good. I mean like the s in 四 and the sh in 十 are pronounce the same in many part in Southern china.
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if you know pinyin then xigua is actually pronouned xigua -_-
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Wow ryo I have no clue wat your saying. This dude is right 100%
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just call him a bloody watermelon sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
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Newbistic, yes I am a native Mandarin speaker. Yes, I realize that there is a standard way to pronounce pinyin, that is the only reason I'm even arguing this. How about you steer away from the random ad hominem? I agree with your explanation of si and ci, but x is not sh and rolling your tongue is at best misleading.
Honestly not sure why you're so angry.
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Newbistic is definitely closest to the mark here. The tongue curls up a bit more towards the back of the mouth for "shi", whereas for "xi" the tongue is flatter and touches the teeth on both sides (at least when I say it). Sure, neither "xi" nor "shi" are pronounced exacly as "shee", but it's closer to "xi" in my opinion.
I think the only possible confusion with "rolling the tongue" might be that "捲舌" is typically used to describe the "ü" sound.
EDIT: And for the person who asked about XiaOzl before, "zi" is probably best approximated as "ds" or "dz" as in "friends". So, something like sheeow (as one syllable) ds, ignoring any tones.
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United States335 Posts
On August 16 2011 22:50 MaGariShun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 20:48 conTAgi0n wrote:
Ignoring the implication that there is a proper way to use the Roman alphabet, the eccentricities of English spelling have nothing to do with why people don't intuitively understand how XiGua should be pronounced.
You just say that like it's a proven fact. Of course there are other problems with romanization too, but an English speaker (americans even more so it seems, because of their pronounciation), who is pronouncing the very same characters differently than say a french, german, italian etc., will obviously have problems reading something romanized using the "standard" (note the quotes) pronounciation of the latin alphabet. I am not saying english speakers are using the characters "wrong", but they need to understand that their pronounciation is not the common one and is in fact very specific to their language. Using a romanization for english speakers, like proposed in the OP, will only help english speakers and confuse almost every other language that uses the roman alphabet.
Keep in mind that it's not just English that's different - there is plenty of variation in how the Roman alphabet is pronounced between other languages that use it as well.
Also, the point is that a Romanization doesn't use "standard" pronunciation of the Roman alphabet, but assigns sounds from the Romanized language to the Roman alphabet. For ease of use the Romanized sound is generally matched to the letter that most closely matches its pronunciation, but there isn't always a good match - look at "c" or "x" or even "e" in pinyin. Precision is more important than intuitiveness in Romanization systems.
An Anglicization, like "shee gwa", is not a Romanization for English speakers but something else entirely. An Anglicization approximates the sounds made in the original language as closely as possible using English sounds and English spellings. It is for laymen and emphasizes intuitiveness above precision. It is sometimes useful for giving someone without training in a Romanization system a rough idea of how something is pronounced, but because it lacks the precision and universality of a Romanization system it is not nearly as useful for anyone who does have training in the language, English speaker or otherwise.
As for the whole "x" debate, non-Chinese speakers should first realize that there are two "sh" sounds in Chinese, if you will: "sh" and "x" in pinyin. Your tongue should roll back when pronouncing "sh" (sounds produced this way are called retroflex consonants), and is pretty much exactly the same as the English "sh" in words like "she" or "shop". The "x" sound sounds most like "sh" in English, but without rolling back your tongue back. That's the best way I can describe it; it's not a hard sound to make, but there's no real English equivalent.
The source of the debate here I think is that pronunciation in Mandarin varies across China and Taiwan. For example, in the south they tend not to use the retroflex "sh" sound, so whereas 是 in what is usually thought of as standard Mandarin pronunciation would be written as "shi" in pinyin, in the south they will often pronounce it as "si" in pinyin. As saritenite explained, "watermelon" in one common accent would be pronounced with a "see" sound rather than the "x" sound as I described it, though my explanation of the "x" sound is usually considered more standard. Neither is wrong though.
On August 17 2011 00:58 SarR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 17:21 rauk wrote:On August 16 2011 17:19 SarR wrote:
Reading this blog reminds me of how curious I was about the correct pronunciation of "XiaOzl". How would that be pronounced anyway ? its pronounced 小子 what ?
The pinyin is xiǎozi. xiǎo has a dipping tone (can't think of a better description), zi has no tone. If you don't know tones don't bother with them unless you start studying Chinese, just know they exist. It could be Anglicized very roughly as "shyeeow dzuh", where "ow" sounds like the vowel in "ouch".
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On August 16 2011 17:41 The_LiNk wrote:
Foreigners will still pronounce it wrong because they don't know tones.
No tones in xigua so it's all good
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United States10328 Posts
On August 17 2011 06:37 Soulish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 17:41 The_LiNk wrote:
Foreigners will still pronounce it wrong because they don't know tones. No tones in xigua so it's all good
what, there are tones. they're just flat ("monotone" like others called it), so I guess they shouldn't be a problem (if that's your original point).
also "X" is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_fricative
basically, pronounce "see" in English, but instead of the "s" sound, push up the middle of your tongue so that the middle of your tongue contacts the roof of your mouth instead of the tip of the tongue touching your teeth.
"x" and "q" in Chinese are pretty amusing to watch foreigners pronounce  the "q" sound is similar to "x," except at the beginning of the sound, touch the tip of your tongue to the top of your mouth.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Mmmm, 西瓜 tastes good. Could go for some right now.
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Hey, stop talking about me! Oh wait, you are talking about that guy... That Zerg dude.
Anyways, gonna grab some 西瓜!
Btw, I prefer being called "Psygewah", that's what imba.tv calls me. 
Sigh... Guess I got to win more stuff to get recognized more than  XiGua... ATLEAST I AM MASTERS!
I thought this blog was about me at first. 
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This was an amusing blog that made me extra self-conscious about my pronunciation.
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Are we really arguing over shee vs see >.> If you say both, a chinese speaker will understand both. The purpose of the word is to communicate the object WATERMELON.
But to add to the argument, the traditional Mainland Chinese pronunciation is shee/shi. See is spoken in Taiwan sometimes, Singapore, etc etc.
Really though, can we just stop Anglicizing the words? Pingyin was created for a reason
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1. learn pinyin
2. xi1 gua1 suddenly makes sense ^_^
she goo'a
I love it when foreigners try to say Zh, X, and Q, they get so confused. I mean, they butcher everything else too, but their faces twist when they have to say Zh, X, and Q.
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On August 17 2011 11:03 Cambium wrote:
1. learn pinyin
2. xi1 gua1 suddenly makes sense ^_^
she goo'a
I love it when foreigners try to say Zh, X, and Q, they get so confused. I mean, they butcher everything else too, but their faces twist when they have to say Zh, X, and Q.
Chinese and Korean has more tonal sounds than most latin derived languages. I don't think other languages can make a poem with only variations of shi
I'd also like to note that a lot of people learn language pronouciation by relating it back to their original language. E.g, an american learning to pronounce watermelon in chinese would be relating to Shee gwa or whatever his/her book is teaching. It's better to learn the language in relation to its own written text, so people pronounce 西瓜 as what it is. You don't see Chinese english speakers respell english words into PingYin....
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On August 16 2011 23:36 fOrQQ wrote:
In Cantonese it is pronounced "Sai Gwa" :D
Word mate, *high five* I'm just going to leave this party now.
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I think it's useless to debate over an Anglicization as there is no letter to represent this consonant.
xi pronunciation is halfway between "see" and "shee".
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On August 17 2011 06:57 ]343[ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 06:37 Soulish wrote:On August 16 2011 17:41 The_LiNk wrote:
Foreigners will still pronounce it wrong because they don't know tones. No tones in xigua so it's all good what, there are tones. they're just flat ("monotone" like others called it), so I guess they shouldn't be a problem (if that's your original point). also "X" is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_fricativebasically, pronounce "see" in English, but instead of the "s" sound, push up the middle of your tongue so that the middle of your tongue contacts the roof of your mouth instead of the tip of the tongue touching your teeth. "x" and "q" in Chinese are pretty amusing to watch foreigners pronounce the "q" sound is similar to "x," except at the beginning of the sound, touch the tip of your tongue to the top of your mouth.
Are you trying to teach me my native language xD
Yea there's the flat tone but it's a lot easier to enunciate than the 2 3 4 tones
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Its pronounced watermelon ...
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EPT
