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Why do people pay for "coaching?" - Page 3

Blogs > urasheep
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Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-27 21:57:14
July 27 2011 21:56 GMT
#41
Why do I pay a university to teach me programming when I could literally google one topic after another and build my own education for free with lots of time, energy and practice? Because I don't have the god damn time to figure out an entire lesson plan and curriculum from scratch, nor would I have someone available to answer my questions, and show me line-by-line what I'm doing wrong, if I get stuck. Duh.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 27 2011 22:18 GMT
#42
It's the same reason as people paying to get tutors for calculus. Even though you might not need a calculus tutor, some other people might.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-27 22:24:15
July 27 2011 22:23 GMT
#43
Same reason people go to college most of the time. It's an easier way of going about things for a lot of people. Can also be more time-efficient.
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
July 27 2011 22:31 GMT
#44
Why do people go to school? Just give someone some books, and it'll be so much more satisfying when they figure out how to read on their own!
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
July 27 2011 22:48 GMT
#45
From watching Mr bitters 12 weeks there are definitely a lot of good that can come from coaching. 50/hr is outrageous though. But if people pay it more power to the coaches.
#1 Kwanro Fan
Sablar
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Sweden880 Posts
July 28 2011 01:08 GMT
#46
Strangest thing about coaching to me is that the only qualification criteria appears to be "be good at starcraft 2". I'm just thinking that you can be good at the game and be a worthless teacher at the same time.

But if people want to get better and are willing to spend money then I don't see anything wrong with it and even a bad teacher will probably help more than noone at all.
beberly
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States117 Posts
July 28 2011 12:53 GMT
#47
People have covered it pretty thoroughly, but the economic concept of opportunity cost is a big factor in the decision to get coaching. If we accept the premise that coaches don't give you anything you couldn't get for yourself (something I would dispute, but this fact doesn't really change the outcome of the analysis), there is still a good argument for paying for coaching.

Everyone values money because it provides them the means to do things they enjoy (going out for dinner, a trip to the movies, a nice car, house, etc.). People also value time, because they can spend it doing those things that they enjoy. In order to get better at SC2 (or any hobby, for that matter), you have to spend SOMETHING. That something can be either time, by teaching yourself and slowly improving by analyzing your own replays, or it can be money, by paying a coach to tell you things that, given enough time, you'd figure out yourself.

If I have lots of money but little time, I value money less than I value time, and spending money instead of time to improve provides me with more utility than the other way around. If, however, I have little money but lots of time (which is usually the case with younger people who lack a solid income, but have fewer demands on their time), then it makes perfect sense to spend TIME, rather than MONEY, to improve, because I value money much more than time.

It's a balance that might sway towards the "I value money way more than time" side for you, but lots of people have plenty of cash and less time. We all spend money on our hobbies, and if you enjoy SC2 and improving, spending money makes perfect sense. It may not be the decision that YOU make, but to say that it's nonsensical for others to make that decision is silly.
Mayor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States472 Posts
July 28 2011 17:19 GMT
#48
Coaching just makes things come faster/easier often times. Though, the only time I'd ever get coaching is when I'm masters league, I don't understand any of the silver/gold/plat level players buying coaching when it's just their mechanics that are really the issue.

One time some guy bought coughing and was in silver league, and he wanted to play against his coworker and Destiny just let the student talk to himself the whole lesson because he really couldn't help him too much, like it's a waste of 50 dollars if you're below diamond/masters in my opinion.
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
July 28 2011 18:00 GMT
#49
On July 28 2011 03:58 urasheep wrote:
Starcraft is a game where you can save your replays. I don't understand why anyone would need the help of someone else to get better. You watch your replay, find out where you failed, change your strat up or work on what you're already doing to make it better, and bam, you just coached yourself.

"Find out where you failed."
Many times we are unaware of what we are doing wrong. We can watch our replay over and over, but we won't be able to pinpoint what we did wrong because we don't have the experience to tell us that.
A lot of low level players will say, "Hey, I totally lost this battle, I think my micro is awful," when in reality his macro is awful.

"Change your strat up"
It's not really that easy, especially in practice. A good coach will not only be able to identify your weakness but how to fix it.
I was coaching my brother on weightlifting, but he had problems I never had. When he did squats, his flexibility was horrible. I never had the problem. What do I say? "GO ALL THE WAY DOWN?"
A good coach would be able to identify the core problem and provide cues to fix this. Me, just being a hobbyist weightlifter who was somewhat decent, would never be able to fix it.

Whenever I watch videos of people getting coached, it's usually just simple advice like "make drones, make overlords..," which everyone can do by themselves.

That's on the quality of the coach, not a criticism on coaching.
Supply blocking was a problem for me, but I isolated it by getting a cue... build this structure at this point when you have this much supply and after this building. I practiced it and it went away. My cue might not work for everyone. If I tell people "build this, then build that" I feel like they're not learning.

While on the topic of coaching, I find it ridiculous anyone would pay anything more then $5 an hour for coaching. Do you think your coaches payed someone $50 an hour for advice? Probably not.

Most personal trainers in any industry cost about that much, from language instruction to martial arts to fitness.
Kalingingsong
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada633 Posts
July 28 2011 18:07 GMT
#50
the same reason people pay for porn I guess. why would they pay for that shit when they can just find it for free [but for some reason they do].
Dess.JadeFalcon
mlee
Profile Joined March 2009
United States116 Posts
July 28 2011 18:19 GMT
#51
When Tiger Woods was at his peak and was the best golfer in the world.. he still had a coach.

This is no different. People tend to learn faster when there are others there helping them see things you didn't catch yourself.
hmmm
Zidane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1692 Posts
July 28 2011 18:35 GMT
#52
While 50$ might be pretty outrageous, coaching for some fees is pretty reasonable. Learning SC2 verbally from another person will help your game tremendously.
Ipp
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States456 Posts
July 28 2011 19:06 GMT
#53
It's always nice to get a second opinion. Yes it is basic advice but coaching happens at all levels. Look at MLG Columbus, after each game you had Tyler(aka Nony) going up to HuK and telling him he did everything right; he just was out of position.

Yeah, the mistakes may be obvious but it's always nice to get a second opinion by someone who knows the game inside and out.
http://youtube.com/RageQuitTV
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
July 28 2011 19:11 GMT
#54
On July 28 2011 03:58 urasheep wrote:
I don't understand why anyone would need the help of someone else to get better.

Really? Really?

Shit, how do you respond to something like that? Look at every other hobby/sport/activity ever.
Denzil
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom4193 Posts
July 28 2011 19:38 GMT
#55
When you hit your personal skill cap you need someone to help you "unlock" the next level.
Anna: So Sen how will you prepare for your revenge v MC? Sen: With a smile.
GreatFall
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1061 Posts
July 28 2011 23:35 GMT
#56
What I don't understand is why as say a Platinum player, you wouldn't just get coaching from a high diamond or low master's player. Why do you need coaching from the very best? It's like learning how to play basic tennis from Roger Federer, kinda overkill imo.
Inventor of the 'Burning Tide' technique to quickly getting Outmatched Crusher achivement :D
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6267 Posts
July 29 2011 03:24 GMT
#57
People pay for coaching because it works - someone will learn faster because a good coach can pick up things that the player may miss. It's the same with every sport - tennis, golf, etc.

On July 28 2011 06:31 andrewlt wrote:
I don't understand it, either. Most of the examples people bring up, like guitar, violin, tennis, require you to contort your body into unnatural stances as a fundamental. Pretty much something like golf require you to assume a stance before you can play. Coaches are helpful there to remind you when you are doing it wrong and proper positioning technique. The only way I can see that happening in Starcraft is if proper positioning of hands and fingers on a keyboard/mouse would help apm. Otherwise, all the information is right there on the Internet.

Now, I understand why professional teams and top amateurs have coaches. I just don't see how bronze and silver league players would benefit from it in Starcraft.

It's no different in SC2 compared to other sports. There are fundamentals in SC2 as well.
bobwhiz
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States725 Posts
July 29 2011 04:21 GMT
#58
I think some people pay just to socialize with the pros. Would you pay 50 bucks an hour to hang out with Derek Jeter or Peyton Manning?

I know many people who pay 200 bucks just to watch the stars from the cheap seats in person.
Signatures are simply a cover for having no personality. -Kiante
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
July 29 2011 16:54 GMT
#59
The question isn't phrased very well. Like many here said; you've already made your mind, and you're not going to change your viewpoint. So why even bother asking? You'll just dig in your heels if you see anything from anyone which runs contrary to what you believe.

OP, are you pro? By "pro", let's take IdrA's defintion, which means:

You play this game to earn a living. This is your sole means of income. If you don't win, you don't eat.

I'm guessing you're not - or you wouldn't asking this question in the first place. Why did IdrA train in Korea? Why does Huk? Jinro? Ask yourself, why they couldn't just train from home. Because your assertion is, why does anyone need help of any kind, when you can just learn on your own?

Why do teams have coaches?

Yes there are plenty of self-taught people. Does that mean that self-help is absolutely for everyone on this planet? What do you have against money changing hands? Is that your real problem? Why would you pay someone to make a burger for you, when you could do it yourself(and better, right?).
Canada
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