EPTwhat do you guys think? man this made me feel so angry lol, seriously that red head is like "she choped his dick off THATS AMAZING" rofl
feminism
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whiteLotus
1833 Posts
what do you guys think? man this made me feel so angry lol, seriously that red head is like "she choped his dick off THATS AMAZING" rofl | ||
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
It's a pretty common thing, if you just take any feminist banter and substitute the words "women" by "men", it rapidly becomes a speech worth condemning. I'm all for equality, and feminism has never been about that. I understand it probably was a necessary driving force 50 years ago, but nowadays they should really moderate themselves before taking things too far (like on that tv show) | ||
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
Btw, I don't really have much respect for some feminists because they are men-haters rather than "equal rights women". A good example of where feminists have good too far is the Strauss-Kahn case where they disregard the "presumption of innocence" in order to push their feminist agendas. However, don't forget the contributions that some "proper feminists" did make in the past. | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
EDIT: jesus the video is ridiculous as well. Jumping from saying that no one is condemning what these women said to an anecdote about a reality show (?!) where a women wasn't convicted for apparently murdering her husband, all phrased as an angry rant instead of... well, anything substantial? It's really tough to take this seriously. | ||
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Applecakes
Australia319 Posts
As for the penis chopping I don't really see the problem. It's obviously being said in jest. It may be in poor taste, but it is just crude humour nonetheless. The question of the shooting isn't one of men versus women. It's a question of someone entrapped (in this case in a marriage), psychologically and abused, can be divested of responsibility for killing their captor. Just because it's usually women on the receiving end doesn't mean the law makes exceptions for them. No doubt if a man was in a similar situation there would be some leniency. And lastly, celebrating rape is wrong whether the perpetrator is male or female. If anyone cheers for female rapists, but condemns male rapists, that's their failing. It's not a failure of feminism, or even have anything to do with it; it's just someone being inconsistent. | ||
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Phyrigian
New Zealand1332 Posts
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Frozenhelfire
United States420 Posts
On July 23 2011 21:10 Azzur wrote: Get over it - men make other kinds of quips all the time about women which would not be same if the roles were reversed. For example, promiscuous men are "ballers" while the equivalent for women are "sluts". Bottom line - men and women are different. Btw, I don't really have much respect for some feminists because they are men-haters rather than "equal rights women". A good example of where feminists have good too far is the Strauss-Kahn case where they disregard the "presumption of innocence" in order to push their feminist agendas. However, don't forget the contributions that some "proper feminists" did make in the past. No, we shouldn't get over it. There is a huge difference between being called a slut instead of a baller and getting off a murder sentence and getting convicted. There is a huge difference between being called something different and the ability for people to laugh at something when it happens to a man and come to the defense of something that happens to a woman. I'd happily make the exchange of being called a slut in turn for having the legal advantages women get in so many cases over men just because of gender. Nerd used to only be derogatory, but now it can actually be positive thanks to something that could be intentional genius by commentators like Tasteless and Artosis. Everyone can also have a different meaning for each word. Oh, I'm a slut? That's great! It means I am good at attracting men and having a good time. As long as I take proper precautions to make sure nothing bad happens it is likely that I am having more fun than people using the term. Legal situations don't get that leisure. | ||
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UltimateHurl
Ireland591 Posts
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Sotamursu
Finland612 Posts
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Rorra
Australia1066 Posts
Is he right, sure. Will people actually listen to him when he argues like that, i doubt it. The reality of the subject is there are feminists(for equal rights), and men-hating feminists (who generalize and/or actually believe that women are superior or something.) honestly that's the reality of the problem, just like very sexist men are still around. I think it may be tied to generation though, I don't really know anyone sexist and every younger women I know doesn't buy into the man-hating bullshit, hopefully this will lessen and disappear with time. I mean sure just like racists are still around there will probably always be, "man-hating" feminists but its more that this really needs to stop being publicly acceptable, the legal benefits certain horrible people get just because they're women is just ridiculous. | ||
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Applecakes
Australia319 Posts
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On July 23 2011 23:35 Applecakes wrote: What surprises and concerns me is (what appears) to be the implication in many people's comments that most feminists hate men. That this myth is so prevalent speaks volumes about patriarchy in itself. Basically. Feminism isn't at all what you hear about on Fox news btw. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
It's unrelated and those who applaud are mindless drones. The guy has a valid point, but it's not a sweeping generalization as he believes. Feminism wants equality between men and women. Radical feminists are just that... radical feminists, thinking their reproductive organs are what is leashing women in their state. | ||
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jon arbuckle
Canada443 Posts
Guy does not hate feminism. He just uses bourgeois women as a means whereby he can vent his rage at all women. On July 24 2011 00:05 Torte de Lini wrote: This isn't feminism, this is women feeling the need to empower one another through the miseries of the opposite sex. It's unrelated and those who applaud are mindless drones. The guy has a valid point, but it's not a sweeping generalization as he believes. Feminism wants equality between men and women. Radical feminists are just that... radical feminists, thinking their reproductive organs are what is leashing women in their state. Radical feminism, which seeks empowerment as opposed to and at the expense of men, is a part of feminism, though, in fact and in your line of reasoning. It just happens to be an extreme wing of feminism that does not favour equality or reconciliation with males - for a whole host of reasons. But, as you say, neither The Talk nor the audience could be aptly described as feminists. They're just women. Men who find this objectionable can read Ovid or Juvenal or medieval lit or whatever to get a good idea of how much misogynous and misogamous humour (or even not humour) figures into a human history of male domination. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 24 2011 00:20 jon arbuckle wrote: If your reference points for "feminism" are The Talk and what some fuckhead on Youtube thinks about The Talk then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should chop your dick off. Guy does not hate feminism. He just uses bourgeois women as a means whereby he can vent his rage at all women. Radical feminism, which seeks empowerment as opposed to and at the expense of men, is a part of feminism, though, in fact and in your line of reasoning. It just happens to be an extreme wing of feminism that does not favour equality or reconciliation with males - for a whole host of reasons. But, as you say, neither The Talk nor the audience could be aptly described as feminists. They're just women. Men who find this objectionable can read Ovid or Juvenal or medieval lit or whatever to get a good idea of how much misogynous and misogamous humour (or even not humour) figures into a human history of male domination. I'm aware of the different ranges of feminism :B Agreed on your suggestions. | ||
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JMC4
United States261 Posts
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On July 24 2011 01:06 JMC4 wrote: This is why I have no respect for feminism. Because of things like this. Honestly that's just terrible that they even find humor in that situation stated in the video. It's good and all for woman to stand up for their rights and such and not be oppressed because of their sex. However they've built somewhat of an immortality in society. If a man so much as lays a finger on a woman they are sent to jail, but woman don't have the same consequenses. I don't think we should go back to the times when woman were just there to reproduce, raise children, and cook and have no value to society. But in my opinion things need to change a bit. Again, a couple of crazies talking about hacking dicks off is *not* feminism. That'd be like me saying I hate all christians because I saw the WBC protesting military funerals. | ||
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SojuSeed
Korea (South)80 Posts
One of my favorite examples of this new norm was a commercial for some tire brand. A balding fat man, looking clueless and slightly dejected, is sitting in his living room with some kind of food in one hand and the tv flickering in the dark, while his wife stands in the doorway, arms crossed and looking extremely put-out and frustrated. The presumption is that he just explained to her that he didn't buy Special Tire Brand, but instead, bought Brand X. The wife glares down at him and says 'It's like talking to an idiot in a big, brown sweater." Another one was for the Big Department Store Sale! the coming weekend and it showed all the disarray that was sure to be caused when mom's every left the nest and went shopping. We see another shot of an overweight guy, thinning on top, looking all sloppy in his fuzzy robe and old t-shirt, staring dejectedly at his 1 year old in the high chair screaming and throwing his food everywhere. He sighs and says, "where is your mother?" As if he just can't deal with a kid. Or the cough medicine commercials that air every winter that shows mom getting a cold and when she finally manages to pull herself from bed, bleary eyed and red nosed, the house is a disaster, the kids have been binging on frozen pizza and tubs of cake icing and no one has changed their clothes since last tuesday. Again, the implication being that her husband just can't handle shit because he's stupid. Now, go find me a commercial that paints women in the same light. You can't. There was just a big stink made about some milk advertisements that implied milk would help both women and men deal with PMS. Apparently referencing some study that suggested milk could help lesson the symptoms. But they got so much heat because they made a joke about women getting moody while on her period that it didn't last more than two weeks before they had to yank it. So, let's recap: We can all laugh about a man getting his dick chopped off, but we can't laugh about women getting moody during PMS. Inequality. If discrimination and marginalization is wrong towards one group or segment of society, it's wrong towards another. The reason I say this does relate to feminism is because the pendulum has swung too far in one direction. If you have to tear men down to build yourself up, you're doing it wrong. ![[image loading]](http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/motivational-best-0.jpg?w=500&h=389) -S- | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
I'd imagine there are just as many sexist feminists around as their are sexist men, just sexist men is classically more widespread so they can't show it on TV to make it "worse" imo. That's how I see it. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 24 2011 01:46 SojuSeed wrote: Whether you agree with how he presents his case or not, the guy in the video is correct in that there is a big double standard in the U.S. these days regarding the roles of the sexes. Men are constantly portrayed as the bumbling fools, the incompetent care givers, inept at anything but farting and scratching his balls while watching the game. One of my favorite examples of this new norm was a commercial for some tire brand. A balding fat man, looking clueless and slightly dejected, is sitting in his living room with some kind of food in one hand and the tv flickering in the dark, while his wife stands in the doorway, arms crossed and looking extremely put-out and frustrated. The presumption is that he just explained to her that he didn't buy Special Tire Brand, but instead, bought Brand X. The wife glares down at him and says 'It's like talking to an idiot in a big, brown sweater." Another one was for the Big Department Store Sale! the coming weekend and it showed all the disarray that was sure to be caused when mom's every left the nest and went shopping. We see another shot of an overweight guy, thinning on top, looking all sloppy in his fuzzy robe and old t-shirt, staring dejectedly at his 1 year old in the high chair screaming and throwing his food everywhere. He sighs and says, "where is your mother?" As if he just can't deal with a kid. Or the cough medicine commercials that air every winter that shows mom getting a cold and when she finally manages to pull herself from bed, bleary eyed and red nosed, the house is a disaster, the kids have been binging on frozen pizza and tubs of cake icing and no one has changed their clothes since last tuesday. Again, the implication being that her husband just can't handle shit because he's stupid. Now, go find me a commercial that paints women in the same light. You can't. There was just a big stink made about some milk advertisements that implied milk would help both women and men deal with PMS. Apparently referencing some study that suggested milk could help lesson the symptoms. But they got so much heat because they made a joke about women getting moody while on her period that it didn't last more than two weeks before they had to yank it. So, let's recap: We can all laugh about a man getting his dick chopped off, but we can't laugh about women getting moody during PMS. Inequality. If discrimination and marginalization is wrong towards one group or segment of society, it's wrong towards another. The reason I say this does relate to feminism is because the pendulum has swung too far in one direction. If you have to tear men down to build yourself up, you're doing it wrong. -S- Those commercials are aimed to target women. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On July 24 2011 01:06 JMC4 wrote: This is why I have no respect for feminism. Because of things like this. Honestly that's just terrible that they even find humor in that situation stated in the video. It's good and all for woman to stand up for their rights and such and not be oppressed because of their sex. However they've built somewhat of an immortality in society. If a man so much as lays a finger on a woman they are sent to jail, but woman don't have the same consequenses. I don't think we should go back to the times when woman were just there to reproduce, raise children, and cook and have no value to society. But in my opinion things need to change a bit. Shouldn't this video make you respect feminism? At one point, the speaker says that the problem is the double standard, that either both should be allowed or both not allowed. But I think it's pretty clear that both should not be allowed. The clip from the show is not an example of feminism. It's an example of something that would be targeted by the male equivalent of feminism. But such a movement doesn't exist. Both movements should exist and target all the reprehensible things done by both sides. | ||
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Tokk
United States3 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:24 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Shouldn't this video make you respect feminism? At one point, the speaker says that the problem is the double standard, that either both should be allowed or both not allowed. But I think it's pretty clear that both should not be allowed. The clip from the show is not an example of feminism. It's an example of something that would be targeted by the male equivalent of feminism. But such a movement doesn't exist. Both movements should exist and target all the reprehensible things done by both sides. 100% agreement. | ||
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UltimateHurl
Ireland591 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:24 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Shouldn't this video make you respect feminism? At one point, the speaker says that the problem is the double standard, that either both should be allowed or both not allowed. But I think it's pretty clear that both should not be allowed. The clip from the show is not an example of feminism. It's an example of something that would be targeted by the male equivalent of feminism. But such a movement doesn't exist. Both movements should exist and target all the reprehensible things done by both sides. There are mens rights groups, that vary from attacking women like this to trying to right inequalities that exist in divorce law and child custody for men. Some of them show a hostility toward women that make me think it's better not further make it competitive by forming teams :/ Actually, read a fascinating article called 'Is there anything good about men' written by a researcher that really highlights the view that really men and women have completely different roles in society, both equally important, but men are put in positions where they risk more, in order to have a greater reward, so while more men are in the top 5%, more men are also in the bottom 5%, as their risks didn't pay off. It's interesting, here's the link: http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm EDIT: mentioned because I really respect the drive for equality, but I think it might come from an adaptation in culture as much as just allowing a woman or man to work interchangably. But this double standard does everyone a disservice :/ | ||
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Cassel_Castle
United States820 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:24 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Shouldn't this video make you respect feminism? At one point, the speaker says that the problem is the double standard, that either both should be allowed or both not allowed. But I think it's pretty clear that both should not be allowed. The clip from the show is not an example of feminism. It's an example of something that would be targeted by the male equivalent of feminism. But such a movement doesn't exist. Both movements should exist and target all the reprehensible things done by both sides. I agree, I don't think that the people on the show really count as feminists. Just because there are so-called "feminists" who hate men doesn't mean that they represent real feminists who work toward male-female equality. Some of them show a hostility toward women that make me think it's better not further make it competitive by forming teams :/ But that's the point, these people who make it a competition undermine real efforts towards male-female equality. | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
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JMC4
United States261 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:24 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Shouldn't this video make you respect feminism? At one point, the speaker says that the problem is the double standard, that either both should be allowed or both not allowed. But I think it's pretty clear that both should not be allowed. The clip from the show is not an example of feminism. It's an example of something that would be targeted by the male equivalent of feminism. But such a movement doesn't exist. Both movements should exist and target all the reprehensible things done by both sides. Hmmm. I suppose you are correct. I watched the video again and I see what you are saying and agree with you. Glad that I got corrected by one of my favorite pro's rather than a random person though haha. | ||
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:24 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Shouldn't this video make you respect feminism? At one point, the speaker says that the problem is the double standard, that either both should be allowed or both not allowed. But I think it's pretty clear that both should not be allowed. The clip from the show is not an example of feminism. It's an example of something that would be targeted by the male equivalent of feminism. But such a movement doesn't exist. Both movements should exist and target all the reprehensible things done by both sides. I believe that is called masculinism, unless you're talking about male feminists =S. | ||
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jon arbuckle
Canada443 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:24 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Shouldn't this video make you respect feminism? At one point, the speaker says that the problem is the double standard, that either both should be allowed or both not allowed. But I think it's pretty clear that both should not be allowed. The clip from the show is not an example of feminism. It's an example of something that would be targeted by the male equivalent of feminism. But such a movement doesn't exist. Both movements should exist and target all the reprehensible things done by both sides. The notion that perfect gender equality, some sort of equilibrium, could be attained seems idealistic even to me because we don't know what it looks like. We have no preexisting models, theoretical much less real, and it's obvious that the solution is not merely institutionalizing equal rights. Women can vote, hold jobs, have free speech, sure, but a woman can't walk places where a man can at night or is more likely to be employed for her looks than her knowledge. I think it's absurd that JMC4 would suggest (hyperbole notwithstanding) that it's wrong and sexist that a woman can spontaneously touch a man however she wishes and that that doesn't work the other way around. Of all the issues you're going to object to... In other words, the problem is private sexism, which is more insidious and difficult to root out, if you're of the opinion that it needs to be rooted out at all. I don't think laughing about gender expressions and sexual identity corresponds to sexism, just as I don't think rallying against that (q.v. "political correctness") achieves gender equality. The problem is when people begin to see the world through the lens of the jokes, to read a joke as a reality (q.v. "gb2 kitchen" jokes, the dregs of internet humour). Lastly, male feminists are one thing (and overly self-identifying male feminists are way creepy for a host of reasons), but for a male to take feminism's general conception of womanhood and apply it to men misunderstands where feminism comes from and what it speaks to. Hence the guy in the video: unless he's been castrated or carries around with him the constant fear and awareness of being castrated at any moment, he doesn't take issue with the joke. He takes issue with women and uses feminism as a lens to make his case. | ||
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Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:24 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Shouldn't this video make you respect feminism? At one point, the speaker says that the problem is the double standard, that either both should be allowed or both not allowed. But I think it's pretty clear that both should not be allowed. The clip from the show is not an example of feminism. It's an example of something that would be targeted by the male equivalent of feminism. But such a movement doesn't exist. Both movements should exist and target all the reprehensible things done by both sides. The male equivalent of feminism is feminism. Feminism is simply a movement for gender equality. A true feminist will equally object to male oppression and female oppression, but it just so happens that the latter is what's typically occurring. The term is misleading though. People read too much into its spelling, which is unfortunate. | ||
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
On July 24 2011 01:46 SojuSeed wrote: + Show Spoiler + Whether you agree with how he presents his case or not, the guy in the video is correct in that there is a big double standard in the U.S. these days regarding the roles of the sexes. Men are constantly portrayed as the bumbling fools, the incompetent care givers, inept at anything but farting and scratching his balls while watching the game. One of my favorite examples of this new norm was a commercial for some tire brand. A balding fat man, looking clueless and slightly dejected, is sitting in his living room with some kind of food in one hand and the tv flickering in the dark, while his wife stands in the doorway, arms crossed and looking extremely put-out and frustrated. The presumption is that he just explained to her that he didn't buy Special Tire Brand, but instead, bought Brand X. The wife glares down at him and says 'It's like talking to an idiot in a big, brown sweater." Another one was for the Big Department Store Sale! the coming weekend and it showed all the disarray that was sure to be caused when mom's every left the nest and went shopping. We see another shot of an overweight guy, thinning on top, looking all sloppy in his fuzzy robe and old t-shirt, staring dejectedly at his 1 year old in the high chair screaming and throwing his food everywhere. He sighs and says, "where is your mother?" As if he just can't deal with a kid. Or the cough medicine commercials that air every winter that shows mom getting a cold and when she finally manages to pull herself from bed, bleary eyed and red nosed, the house is a disaster, the kids have been binging on frozen pizza and tubs of cake icing and no one has changed their clothes since last tuesday. Again, the implication being that her husband just can't handle shit because he's stupid. Now, go find me a commercial that paints women in the same light. You can't. There was just a big stink made about some milk advertisements that implied milk would help both women and men deal with PMS. Apparently referencing some study that suggested milk could help lesson the symptoms. But they got so much heat because they made a joke about women getting moody while on her period that it didn't last more than two weeks before they had to yank it. So, let's recap: We can all laugh about a man getting his dick chopped off, but we can't laugh about women getting moody during PMS. Inequality. If discrimination and marginalization is wrong towards one group or segment of society, it's wrong towards another. The reason I say this does relate to feminism is because the pendulum has swung too far in one direction. If you have to tear men down to build yourself up, you're doing it wrong. -S- what alternative misogynistic reality are you living in also, the guy's argument is instantly irrelevant by using some mindless banter on a daytime tv talk show to represent feminist thought. it would be great if every male spent more than 30 seconds outside of their own viewpoint and read about feminism with open eyes, but i suppose if that was possible the work of feminism would be done. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 24 2011 12:24 benjammin wrote: what alternative misogynistic reality are you living in also, the guy's argument is instantly irrelevant by using some mindless banter on a daytime tv talk show to represent feminist thought. it would be great if every male spent more than 30 seconds outside of their own viewpoint and read about feminism with open eyes, but i suppose if that was possible the work of feminism would be done. Well, his argument that commercials are slanted towards women being capable and men being fools is generally true, but it's because most of the commercials for home care products are targeted at women and housewives in the first place. It is slightly insidious (the part about men being fools, at least) but it's a conscious effort for the sake of $$$, rather than a projection of inherent biases. Then again, women are portrayed like shit too, especially in things like jewelry commercials. It's interesting to think about who the ad designers were targeted and what they were thinking. In the end, it's really just a shitty ad written by a bunch of fucktards since it's not really targeted towards men yet it's offensive towards women. | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
Also a good example of what the guy in the video said is that the tl mods will more then surely warn me for the above tho if i said: "that's why man should stick with playing sports" in a "feminism" blog i can assure you nothing would happen... ever. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On one hand though, they were kidding and they do this for shock value - but like he said, if a male comedian did something like that towards women, he'd get mauled down by the angry crowd. Feminism isn't necessarily bad but some of them go too far just like some men will go too far in their private discussions with other men. A few years back, my driving instructor said some horrible shit about women once he was comfortable bringing it up with me. People just suck  | ||
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Kamille
Monaco1035 Posts
On July 24 2011 05:53 Romantic wrote: I don't even know what feminism is, but just about ever incarnation of it I find I am either unimpressed or in disagreement. The feminist movement has done a lot for the improvement of women's rights, even if the current incarnation is seen to be a bit extreme. If you read Virginia Woolf's A Room of One's Own you would understand the importance of feminism. Has this guy ever considered this is done for nothing but ratings? It's television. I don't understand why anyone takes it seriously. All these "representations" of feminism are extremes. Our society is nothing but extremism. Ratings, readers and audiences aren't attracted by moderates. | ||
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Paver
Australia105 Posts
Men still rule the world. Women still have periods and babies. Still sucks to be them IMO. And the reason advertisers make fun of the white male is because hes the only one who you are allowed to humiliate these days. Its annoying, but meh. | ||
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Raisauce
Canada864 Posts
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thezanursic
5479 Posts
This is not worthy of it's own thread, but I just wanted to display this: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat/videos?flow=grid&view=0&sort=p | ||
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