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On June 04 2011 17:05 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:55 Robinsa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:40 TheDeli wrote:On June 04 2011 16:36 Lysenko wrote:On June 04 2011 16:22 TheDeli wrote:
If you're reading this post, it means that, right now, you feel gloomy. Or depressed. Even depressive. Not true! I was just curious what "can't be arsed" meant. After reading, I still have no idea. ._. I shall edit the OP :p On June 04 2011 16:35 Laerties wrote:
You didn't address people who are depressed because of chemical imbalances! HOW DARE YOU. T_T Sowwies. Dealing with it requires chemicals? Can't be arsed staying imprisoned by your own mind. If anything, if there's no solution... find the solution? Just an idea being thrown out there. On June 04 2011 16:36 HuskyMUDKIPZ wrote:
I was going to read this, but I can't be arsed. Cruel person is cruel. X3 If you're gloomy or depressed, you gotta read it man ;D Sotamursu: You have to make a conscious effort to get out of it. You have to deal with everything... Your mind first. I used to be uber-negative about things during my own depression period, like there was no end to the tunnel. And then a switch was flipped. Well being negative and depressed is not the same thing. I have times when I dont think posetively about stuff but I can still deal with it. It was something different when I broke down and I didnt have enough energy in my body to move myself out of my bed and felt that I didnt care if I died. To say to someone with a real depression that its in their head is like saying that cancer is placebo. Just because you havnt seen/experianced something doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Maybe changeing the way you think about stuff helped you but for some other people it could have its cause in something else. Threads like this just marginalize people with real deceases. Edit: Oh, what helped me get better was to sleep for a week and then things felt a little better. Took a couple of months to get back completely. Dude, all it took to feel better was to sleep it off for a week? I've felt this way every day for 15 years. Maybe I should be on these medicines you talk about... Then again, I know they certainly didn't work for my mother. :/
For me it was because I was overwoked and resting really helped me. I really hope you get to feel better soon. I dont know if I would have been able to take it for more than the 2 weeks I felt ill.
Anyway, what I wanted to say its not only about changing your attitude but that it can be so much deeper rooted than that.
On June 04 2011 18:19 bbsss wrote:
As I do think the don't give a fuck attitude can help you with feeling down about certain insecurities, you do very much so marginalize depression. A real depression is like a black void that sucks everything you love down to nullifiy it's importance and happiness it might bring to you. "Cant be arsed" then doesn't make sense because if you would not give a fuck about everything you normally love not giving you pleasure means you don't give a fuck about your life. Which is all you have and are.
I guess he worded it better than me.
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Not caring about your problems is the worst thing you can do. And all that it'll do is just make it build up inside you, and become 10x worse. It's easy to just ingore you problem, but it wont make them go away. You can continue life even though you have a depression, no problem. But that is only because/if you ignore it. But it wont help or make it go away. Sooner or later something will trigger it all off, and it'll just have become much much worse.
I remember I was watching Dr. Phil (yeah I've watched it before), and he said about someone who was depressed "look up. Dont look down to the ground. Look up, ofcourse you're depressed, when you look down on the ground." Yes it's true it doesnt help to think about it all the time, that's probably the worst thing you can do, because then you'll just become even MORE depressed, but still ignoring it wont solve the problem.
And I've probably just made a serious reply to a giant troll, but I cant be arsed.
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I have an uncontrollable feeling of anxiety/stress/constricting that even though I try to control it in a variety of ways (including try to distract myself from it), it just will not go away. I also have pretty severe tinnitus, and I would compare it to that. It is literally impossible to stop, I will always hear a ringing in my ears, and I will always feel that constricting feeling.
I think when you want to help someone, you actually need to do something, because words and unsolicited advice and whatever are just bullshit and patronizing. Anything you can think of after 10 minutes of worrying about my problems I have thought of a million times over my lifespan. If you wanna help someone, do something for them that they can't do themselves. Otherwise shut up =/
Sorry that's harsh, but those are my feelings on the matter. "Talk is cheap" as they say.
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I see what you're saying, and I can't say it doesn't work for you.
However: General apathy isn't really a solution, is it? In fact, I'd say that your approach is a problem in itself but let's not get into that.
You seem to be reducing very complex emotional problems down to a basic 'who cares, get over it' which is reductive and invalidating and when offered as advice can actually cause more damage by making someone who is already potentially severely confused begin to doubt the validity of even their own feelings. Not a great thing for someone already troubled by a lack of self-worth or a perceived lack of self-determination or power in general.
You show a very poor understanding of human psychology.
No one should follow this advice. Antipathy, apathy and ironic enthusiasm are pathetic and often transparent defense mechanisms that don't help anyone. Honestly you should delete this post, it's fucking terrible.
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lol perhaps i am retarded, but i don't think u can use "can't be arsed" in the manner you've used it in several sentences, and still have the sentence make sense. but i can't be arsed to decipher your convoluted "can't be arsed"es. am i doing it right?
not to be mean though, i think your blog was very well-meaning and was written with good intentions.
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5/5
Can't believe some of the replies though.
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On June 04 2011 21:51 qdenser wrote:
you don't become less depressed by changing perspectives or some other psychology voodoo; you do it by improving your quality of life
Don't talk so confidently if you don't know what you're talking about.
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Depression isn't something that the vast majority of people can think their way out of. Human brains don't work like that. Being depressed lessens one's ability to deal with depression, it's a vicious cycle.
If you're lucky enough to be one of the few people that can, great. But don't spread misinformation that just increases the stigma that other sufferers must deal with. Will-powering your way out of a mental illness is not something that most people can do.
Also, traumatic events have a real, chemical effect on your brain. Most people can't just not care. In your bit about rape/beating/whatever, you're telling people with PTSD to just lighten up. Not gonna happen, and this attitude (that it's not so bad, they need to just ignore the shame and anxiety that haunts every moment and every interaction) is often one of the biggest obstacles to their recovery..
I guess you just can't be arsed to be compassionate?
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On June 05 2011 02:39 SiegeMode wrote:
Depression isn't something that the vast majority of people can think their way out of. Human brains don't work like that. Being depressed lessens one's ability to deal with depression, it's a vicious cycle.
If you're lucky enough to be one of the few people that can, great. But don't spread misinformation that just increases the stigma that other sufferers must deal with. Will-powering your way out of a mental illness is not something that most people can do.
Also, traumatic events have a real, chemical effect on your brain. Most people can't just not care. In your bit about rape/beating/whatever, you're telling people with PTSD to just lighten up. Not gonna happen, and this attitude (that it's not so bad, they need to just ignore the shame and anxiety that haunts every moment and every interaction) is often one of the biggest obstacles to their recovery..
I guess you just can't be arsed to be compassionate?
Guess what?
We are capable of dealing with it in a way you're claiming we're not.
Not many people know how naturally, but if you're open to learning stuff that isn't neccessarily black and white, you can master this too.
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On June 05 2011 03:40 niteReloaded wrote:
Guess what?
We are capable of dealing with it in a way you're claiming we're not.
Not many people know how naturally, but if you're open to learning stuff that isn't neccessarily black and white, you can master this too.
I assume that you wouldn't tell someone with, say, schizophrenia or antisocial personality disorder that they just need a change of perspective and they'll be all better? Why should major depressive disorder be different just because it's more similar to peoples' common experience of the world?
Most people go through depressive episodes in their lives. Usually it gets better on its own. For ordinary people, a change in perspective may help.
For others it just doesn't. This is when it's a true mental illness. This is what I'm talking about when I say "depression."
People like you have no idea the amount of suffering you cause to the ones who can't just "buck up"..
If you have gone through this and the approach described in this thread worked for you, that's great!
Just understand that the prognosis for untreated major depressive disorder is absolutely dismal.. even when treated, it's a bitch of an illness, and the efficacy of treatments is pretty low.
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Alright, for those who are like "Don't talk about what you don't know", I had been battling depression for a bit more than 3 years. 3. Ranging from cutting myself from the world at large (edit: not cutting my wrists - but I've seen the consequences of it and it made me cry inside) to almost putting a knife through my heart (real story) but lacking the "courage" to do so. The first wake-up call was when I almost died independently of my will (as in, I didn't try to kill myself) - I was trapped in the 3rd floor in a fire and the ladder was a bit risky, needless to say I hung to it with my legs in the air. The only thought that came in was not: "My life is done." It was "I have so much to do in here I really can't allow myself to die". In the meantime, I failed 3 years of my scholarity, passing one because I forced myself to pass it (needless to say I was exhausted).
Allow me to describe you how I felt when depressed:
- No future (I was bound to be a failure, born to be a failure, would die a failure)
- No energy / passion (I'd have a spark, but would never do anything because I'd continuously bash myself about how bad I am at this and that)
- Paralyzed by my fear of failure (at least, psychologically, I had those moments)
- Extreme worries / tension coupled with sorrow
- I was always sad. Always. It used to be my normal mood.
- I didn't kill myself because I lacked the courage to leave everyone devastated. Suicidal thoughts were a daily occurence (like: "I'm on a bridge, I fancy jumping on the way of a truck" sort of thing - or holding a knife and slightly pressing it on the area my heart is supposed to be).
Now I'm not super-happy out of magic. I do a conscious effort to implement a different way of thinking to my brain - because I can hear that voice in my mind telling me this and that. Let's just say I'm reprogramming it to serve me, instead of kill me slowly but surely.
Be receptive. Don't let that voice in your mind tell you "Oh he's patronizing me, judging me and stuff". No, it's actually from a genuine intention of helping people who can relate. I'll take the time to listen (or read, rather) anyone who PMs me about their problems - and I won't seek solutions systematically because depression doesn't work like that.
Someone wrote that I used "can't be arsed" wrong. I am open to that fact, mostly since I understand his point. If you were to reword "can't be arsed", it would be a mix of "can't be bothered" and "can't allow myself to, I'm way too precious for that". More leaning towards the latter.
If I were to tell you my story, you'd be like (wtf). Hint: At least four of the things I stated in "the list" actually happened to me (and more that I didn't state). You don't have the right to tell me that I'm not compassionate because I actually have too much of it to spare. I don't want anyone to go through hell again and if I know someone with that condition, I'll do my best to, at least, ease the pain. You aren't alone in this - and I used to be there.
If anyone posted this, it would have appealed to me. I'm conscious that different ways appeal to different people. It'd be easier to target those who have a similar mindstate to mine first. Other people, I will have to know personally in order to help them through (and it's not because I'm good with words, it's because I naturally pick them to fit the situation - unconsciously).
If your house is burning, it's a massive tragedy but it isn't the end of your life. You're way too precious to stop living because a house is now burnt to ashes. I'm not denying that it isn't a tragedy (and that "all of your life and belongings, all you worked for, all your memories" are there) but your life, your most precious belonging (the one that costs the Earth + 5%), is safe - so are your memories, observing a house burning. You have to take the time to grieve over losses, but don't grieve for too long - you are too precious to allow yourself to be overwhelmed with sadness for extended amounts of time (read: days and weeks).
Do note that if you're depressed the way I was, medication will be needed. Depression is as much psychological as it is physical and it's all in the brain. Medication will help the physical aspect but as far as the psychological one, you are the master.
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Also, you saw that I stated the problem, acknowledging it. But I "can't be arsed" dwelling on it. I'm too precious to dwell on it. I know it's here, it happened. The key is: It happened. It isn't happening anymore.
For those who still face the problem, though, they have to find a way to take care of it and NOT let that mental cage of fear trap them into depression. Don't. I've been there and I did - the results were disastrous. Don't take stuff on yourself. If there's something inside, expell it. Expell it before it becomes clouded by the other things to come. Please do.
The key is: "I. am. too precious for negativity." It's not easy. It took me 3+ years to accept this fact.
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But thinking you can ameliorate depression by telling someone they shouldn't be depressed because there's too much good in the world to be depressed about is the same as thinking that you can make someone unhappy by showing them all the things in the world they shouldn't be happy about.
Even if you "can't be arsed" to deal with a depression you claim to have been battling for years, your attempts to relate come across as condescending because you forget that when someone is depressed, the depression is so concrete, dense, physical, and real that it would be unthinkable that they could see otherwise. And expressing it doesn't oust it through some cosmic catharsis but leads one to dote on it, to see it from new angles, thereby exacerbating whatever causes the depression that rips through the world and turns up its apparent ugliness.
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EPT
