EPTSimply removing the mechanic would solve a lot of problems as I see it.
The Warp Gate Mechanism - Page 2
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
Simply removing the mechanic would solve a lot of problems as I see it. | ||
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
On April 26 2011 17:53 XsebT wrote: I don't know the best solution, but from what I've seen (especially PvP), warp gates destroy the game in so many ways. E.g. having units spawn at the same rate and location as your opponent when there isn't even an obvious defender's advantage makes for games that are too build-dependant. (this is what we see unfold in pretty much every single PvP) Simply removing the mechanic would solve a lot of problems as I see it. How about adding a longer cooldown when proxying stuff (warping) and like 5-10 seconds faster when just producing old school? Even though you upgrade the gateways to warpgates, it would make sense if you could use them as gateways too. It's not too complicated IMO, just have a different hotkey for the buildings than the warpgate ability. There, PvP is fixed and protoss slightly nerfed without drastic changes or overkills. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Void rays are pretty gay too. Along with the mule. | ||
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Bergys
Sweden337 Posts
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WarChimp
Australia943 Posts
The upgrading of the pylons does sort of fix the problem but maybe not. Really we would have to see all these ideas being tested on the PTR. They have the PTR, but I don't understand why they don't address some of these problems and test it out. It seems they are just trying to find a back route around the problem. Too be honest, if something doesn't work, take it out. I would much rather have a balanced game that I got to get used to, than a game that isn't balanced. Like the Chinese guy said. The warp-gates are indeed a cool idea, but anything in game that negates travel just is too imbalanced. Maybe it wouldn't be so imbalanced if smart casting wasn't in game. Good old brood war... F3 (Camera switches to gates) Spam warp gate to location at F4. But that would make it super hard haha. | ||
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happyft
United States470 Posts
On April 26 2011 12:50 Stealthypoo wrote: I see what you're saying - but, it's not viable considering how the tech tree works and how late you'd actually get the warp-prism. You'd die - fast. A simpler idea, on the same perspective - is to create some sort of 'warp-in pylon' that can be constructed by the Protoss army. That way the mechanic stays in the game - this'll ensure whatever 'balance' that is in the game - isn't severely effected. An idea would be to make Pylons act like spore colonys back in SCBW where you have a pylon which has the ability (For some set price) to 'upgrade' into your supposed 'Warp-In Pylon". I think by creating an additional cost, plus a longer delay - would help solve some of the timing crisis involved with the warp in timing attacks (ex. early 4gs, etc) and increase the risks of cheese/all-ins. I really like this! Especially if there's a material gas cost and time delay involved -- that would definitely compeltely change PvP, and make toss in general a lot more skill-based and the game overall more strategic. Scouting, denying, sniping and choosing warp-in pylons on both players ... really nice suggestion. (I guess this is kind of like how zerg upgrade overlords to overseers, except this is probably much cooler!) | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:56 GHOSTCLAW wrote: I'm thinking of a dark pylon type of building? I believe the function of this (which was later renamed the Obelisk) was to increase probe movement speed slightly in the area of effect. You would place one in your mineral line in order to increase the amount of minerals mined. It ended up being overpowered, and it was replaced by chrono boost. It was something to counteract MULEs. Edit: Looks like it did that, then it was changed to have some abilities, including shield battery, and now it's just gone. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:42 Wolf wrote: I believe the function of this (which was later renamed the Obelisk) was to increase probe movement speed slightly in the area of effect. You would place one in your mineral line in order to increase the amount of minerals mined. It ended up being overpowered, and it was replaced by chrono boost. It was something to counteract MULEs. I think if Blizzard were to embrace the idea of a "Warp-in Pylon," they already have the art assets available in the form of the Dark Pylon/Obelisk. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:44 eviltomahawk wrote: I think if Blizzard were to embrace the idea of a "Warp-in Pylon," they already have the art assets available in the form of the Dark Pylon/Obelisk. Yep! ![[image loading]](http://www.sc2blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/dark-pylon2.jpg) | ||
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Aylear
Norway3988 Posts
On April 26 2011 12:50 Stealthypoo wrote: I see what you're saying - but, it's not viable considering how the tech tree works and how late you'd actually get the warp-prism. You'd die - fast. A simpler idea, on the same perspective - is to create some sort of 'warp-in pylon' that can be constructed by the Protoss army. That way the mechanic stays in the game - this'll ensure whatever 'balance' that is in the game - isn't severely effected. An idea would be to make Pylons act like spore colonys back in SCBW where you have a pylon which has the ability (For some set price) to 'upgrade' into your supposed 'Warp-In Pylon". I think by creating an additional cost, plus a longer delay - would help solve some of the timing crisis involved with the warp in timing attacks (ex. early 4gs, etc) and increase the risks of cheese/all-ins. Holy crap, that's pretty genius. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25962 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:56 GHOSTCLAW wrote: I'm thinking of a dark pylon type of building? I think you just give a Pylon an upgrade - Upgrade to Warp Pylon. It costs $100 and takes 30 seconds or something like that. Alternatively, you give the nexus that ability and make it cost 50 energy + money + some time. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
One thing I can think of right now is, make warpgate still be able to produce units the original way as a gateway and can only warp-in to a warp prism. Since the PTR 1.3.3 patch indicate that gateway build time and warp gate cooldown times are actually the same now, this will even make more sense. When a Protoss not attacking, he will produce units normally with his warpgate. On the occasion of offense, you bring a warp-prism at you, and you can warp in units to that. The opponent however will try to snipe your warp-prism, which makes it more exciting in term of micro and placement of the warp-prism and negate the ability of a Protoss to infinite warps in units as long as you have enough WG or Nexus charges. This will also completely change the way PvP is playing out right now. PvP will very likely not be a coin-flip anymore.( People are now comparing PvP in SC2 to ZvZ in SC:BW. I found that in some sense a ridiculous compare. ZvZ in SC:BW actually not very much of a coin-flip but really rely alot alot on micro. ) Though, with this change you still be able to 4 gate as Tester show us today in his 1st game vs Anypro, ofc minus the fact that he sends his Warp prism into 6 waiting Stalkers that he knew they would be there  . | ||
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Poo
Canada536 Posts
On April 27 2011 00:24 Chill wrote: I think you just give a Pylon an upgrade - Upgrade to Warp Pylon. It costs $100 and takes 30 seconds or something like that. Alternatively, you give the nexus that ability and make it cost 50 energy + money + some time. That's a neat idea for the nexus to use energy to actually produce the pylons (+money/+time). I like it :D Also, people in this thread are bitching about how warp-in pylons don't solve the protoss ability to warp in cross map etc. The idea of the warp-in pylon is to help limit this and make it 'more' preventable both early game and late game. By game design, the protoss are supposed to have the ability to cross-map reinforce - removing this ability entirely would alter the game design and how every matchup works massively, hence removal should be avoided. . Just wanted to clarify that for some of the people who've been posting. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:11 Joementum wrote: Protoss players had a good time without Warp-Gates in SC: BW. Why would they start dying fast without WG now? It would take a while to adjust, but it wouldn't be impossible. Another thing that's annoying with WGs is the fact that a Protoss can keep pace with Zerg production with enough WGs. It's kind of ridiculous that a late-game Toss can drop down 16 gates, build 16 units, Chrono and then warp-in again to have a full army that can take on what the Zerg just created. It kind of ruins the whole Zerg swarm mechanic, but whatever. Because your gateway units take about 1.6x as long to make as comparable zerg/terran units, which happen to be much stronger than they were in broodwar, and yours are the same as before or weaker (minus blink). Good luck holding out against a remax without going back to your base, unless you were ahead already. You're just not going to have much persistent offensive capability of many maps due to the long reinforce distance without having been ahead already. | ||
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Sega92
United States467 Posts
On April 26 2011 12:50 Stealthypoo wrote: I see what you're saying - but, it's not viable considering how the tech tree works and how late you'd actually get the warp-prism. You'd die - fast. A simpler idea, on the same perspective - is to create some sort of 'warp-in pylon' that can be constructed by the Protoss army. That way the mechanic stays in the game - this'll ensure whatever 'balance' that is in the game - isn't severely effected. An idea would be to make Pylons act like spore colonys back in SCBW where you have a pylon which has the ability (For some set price) to 'upgrade' into your supposed 'Warp-In Pylon". I think by creating an additional cost, plus a longer delay - would help solve some of the timing crisis involved with the warp in timing attacks (ex. early 4gs, etc) and increase the risks of cheese/all-ins. well damn...I think you might have just solved all warpgate timing pushes...too bad blizz won't think of something that is so clearly a good idea because sometimes it seems like they just randomly change things with no thought at all anyways, +1 for you sir | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
1. Did a massive ling runby on Outpost and got to the mineral line, only to have Zealot Stalker warp in my face so the lings would auto acquire them. His Gateways were miles away from the choke :S. 2. This always happens, whenever I harass with Muta (yea I do it lots to pretend I'm Jaedong, go figure ><). My initial few Mutas would fly in sometimes when the Protoss has his army out of position somewhere, only to have Stalkers warp in so I have to pull back before I can do the amount of damage I should have been able to do. While this sounds like a defender's advantage, the main Protoss army can be anywhere without having to invest in cannons or holding units back. In a game whose predecessor emphasized positioning to be one of its fundementals, as stated before, the ability to have units instantly and anywhere is a major asset. Even with the Nydus (both versions) you would have units on hand that are near the Nydus. Imagine if Jaedong doom dropped Bisu late game and had 15 units spawn in his face :O. I don't know, since SC2 balance talk is a really delicate thing on TL, I normally refrain from saying anything even remotely close to discussing balance. I only play SC2 for fun with friends and don't really care for my record or anything. I'm not saying that Warp Gates are necessarily imbalanced. Just an observation from someone who watches BW playing SC2. And after being subjugated to the various WG mechanics, I'll just say it's not really that fun to deal with. In short, not really trying to imbalance whine, but I don't really find the WG mechanic to be all that exciting. | ||
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