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Quite preface before this begins. This isn't some whine post about balance or anything about the state of the game. This is about myself personally and my possible limitations.
I've been thinking for a couple of months now if there are certain people that are just inherently bad at Starcraft 2.
You see players in custom games or the 1v1 Obs games with 200 ladder games and 45 customs (as an example) and sitting in Diamond. .
Between laddering and customs, I've played nearly 1500 games and I'm still in the exact same spot on my Gold ladder as I have been for nearly three months now. I try and map strategies for matchups and certain maps, I read ridiculous amounts of information, I watch tons and tons of games and replays trying to analyze.
I step into a game with a AI opponent, my play is pretty smooth. I hit my opening timings just as I need to and get myself off on a good foot for the game. When I hit the ladder, or even play a friend, that opening falters, the build collapses, tunnel vision sets in and I miss Overlords left and right.
All the upgrades built into my plan suddenly never get made and I just keep making Roaches to stay alive when 45 Void Rays blast me into oblivion. It seems like with all the time and work I've put into this, I should be better than I am.
Perhaps I can blame the Xanax medication I have to take due to my constant anxiety problems, which slows down brain function. That seems like a gigantic cop out to me. Maybe I'm too old and had no experience in BW to help my education, being nearly 30 now.
I don't know what it is, but it seems like I should be much better than this and I don't know how to fix it. I run the multitasking trainer every day, I run the micro trainer as well, use the YABOTs to try and prepare. None of it seems to matter much when a real game starts. People always say to practice more. I've practiced plenty and it has gotten me no where but horizontally.
So, Liquidians, do you think that some people are just physiologically not wired to be good at this game? Looking forward to some good feedback.
Thanks for your time.
 
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Yes some people are just inherently bad at video games. No matter how hard these people train, they'll never be decent at the game. However, I don't think you're focusing on the right things. Sure micro and build orders are important, but the most important things are things like not getting supply blocked, spending your money, and most importantly decision making in the game. These 3 things alone can get you in to diamond. I'm in diamond and never memorized a build order past 18 supply.
Edit: Also, you shouldn't always stick to a plan, scout and react. You should never lose to like 45 void rays and have roaches out.
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Anyone can be good at the game. You just need to have the desire to get better and actually practice correctly. (Not saying theres a wrong way to play the game, but if you're just 6 pooling the whole time, you're not working on your mechanics, which is really important.)
Having said that, 1500 games is a lot, and most people say that practice is the only way to get better... I really have no explanation why you shouldn't be in a higher league...
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Practice advice..
+ Show Spoiler +You've probably heard it a thousand times, but mechanics and macro really is everything up to a certain point where finer strategics start to matter.
I feel like micro/macro/mechanics from broodwar has basically carried me to the top of my master division. The builds or strategic aspects, well, I just think of something that might work or look up builds on liquipedia and execute. I don't think a lot about the game, just the obvious stuff like map characteristics, feigning attacks/hiding shit/typical mind games as in whatever you can come up with in game.
The big thing is always macro. Focus on one thing at the time. One game make sure you are never supply blocked, the next see to it that your min/gas never goes above 300/300 for the entire game. Learn to multi-task a scout while macroing your main. Raise your apm (and don't let anyone tell you that actions per minute in the fastest RTS ever is insignificant).
When you start to get the hang of these things, try playing a bunch of games vs a computer while keeping all that stuff in mind and microing a scout for the entire duration of the game. I don't know if they exist for sc2 but for broodwar there was a macro training exercise where you had to macro up an army, constantly micro a probe away from a zealot and never float minerals, then you had to carry out an attack as well and additionally you had to get drop and rescue a unit from a platform. ^^ That helped me a lot and you could easily train that in a custom vs computer.
Oops only skimmed through your post before writing this, it seems you've been utilizing some form of macro/micro exercise maps already. To be honest, the only thing you could possibly do against tunnel-vision/nerves is playing.. Maybe play some team games to take off the pressure...
I guess you weren't really looking for advice on practice or the game itself. Yes it probably varies a lot how difficult getting good at any given activity is for different people depending on background and such. We're not identical copies, we're individuals. In your case it sounds like nerves being the biggest hindrance.
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Post some replays. Maybe we can find a general trend of why you're losing.
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Yes, this question has an obvious answer. In every field of life there are people who are naturally better than others; ranging from sports, academics, fine arts to computer games. I, myself don't read about people's strategies nor do I watch pro games but I went into masters for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 all in one game after they got released. Prior to this I got placed into the highest league that I could be placed, (at times platinum and diamond) and moved up to the highest league in the length of approximately up to 30 games. I understand that there are a lot of bad players, because I beat them to get into masters but don't feel discouraged. Someone has to be on top, and that can't be everyone since ranks are relative. You can accept your league and be content, rather than fight against nature. The most important thing for great players is a great mind, and the passion to achieve. If you have the passion for this game though you should keep trying. Though if you want to face the facts there are naturally gifted people out there that you may never beat.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199432
This thread was largely but not entirely about the oppersite. In which I was trying to argue that there is such a thing as talent and saying that if you practiced as much as Flash and Jaedong you would be just as good as them is just not true. So YES I think there are people that are just better and people that are just worse. However with people that are bad its normally things you can work on like mechanics and timings so a bit of practice will definately help a lot at a lower level. However at the top there will always be people that no matter how you practice they are just better than you.
It also sounds like you get very nervous and you need to try not to some how (about the least useful words ever) . Its just a game, your just playing for fun right? Try to enjoy your self and not care to as much whether you win or lose. I know half the fun is winning and getting better but come on why play if your just beating your self and getting pissed off. Yes try and improve try and think what went wrong and try and not do it next time. but don't beat your self up to much
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A lot of good advice is given here but as I tried to say in the OP, I have tried and tried to work on all these things. I know macro is the biggest part of any low league game and I do try, damn hard to do it. In my AI games, I can execute it just fine. Real games just don't really work for me.
As for posting replays, I don't need analysis about where my game play is bad. I know that for sure. It's just a matter of all my practice and study and learning just doesn't translate over into the game. It's easy to say to keep an eye on my supply the whole game, but when I'm fighting off a bunch of stuff, I don't have the multitasking ability to keep an eye out. I'm trying to handle things when things are going on.
I don't know. It just seems like the hundreds and probably thousands of hours I've invested into the game and all it has to offer community wise, I'm still just a chump in the Gold league. Discouragement is getting very hard to stave off when spending so much time and getting no where.
Hopefully I can keep my head up long enough to keep playing. I want to be one of those players that plays this game for ten years and wets his pants at the announcement of the next one. I know I'll never be a top Masters player. I never had that notion at all when starting and I don't now. Just seems like I should be able to handle more than I can now.
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On March 11 2011 09:34 Greg_J wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199432This thread was largely but not entirely about the oppersite. In which I was trying to argue that there is such a thing as talent and saying that if you practiced as much as Flash and Jaedong you would be just as good as them is just not true. So YES I think there are people that are just better and people that are just worse. However with people that are bad its normally things you can work on like mechanics and timings so a bit of practice will definately help a lot at a lower level. However at the top there will always be people that no matter how you practice they are just better than you. It also sounds like you get very nervous and you need to try not to some how (about the least useful words ever) . Its just a game, your just playing for fun right? Try to enjoy your self and not care to as much whether you win or lose. I know half the fun is winning and getting better but come on why play if your just beating your self and getting pissed off. Yes try and improve try and think what went wrong and try and not do it next time. but don't beat your self up to much
Please forgive the double post but this one does make the most sense. I was thinking last night that to Hades with my ladder score and forget about promotions and things of that nature. Hit the Random button and just go crazy with things and let the games play out as they do. It's something I should try and not worry so much about getting to a certain "place" in my play and just play as it should be. For fun.
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post reps dude. theres no reason you should be in gold league after that many games, especially in a game as inherently easy as starcraft2.
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On March 11 2011 09:40 Treetop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 09:34 Greg_J wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199432This thread was largely but not entirely about the oppersite. In which I was trying to argue that there is such a thing as talent and saying that if you practiced as much as Flash and Jaedong you would be just as good as them is just not true. So YES I think there are people that are just better and people that are just worse. However with people that are bad its normally things you can work on like mechanics and timings so a bit of practice will definately help a lot at a lower level. However at the top there will always be people that no matter how you practice they are just better than you. It also sounds like you get very nervous and you need to try not to some how (about the least useful words ever) . Its just a game, your just playing for fun right? Try to enjoy your self and not care to as much whether you win or lose. I know half the fun is winning and getting better but come on why play if your just beating your self and getting pissed off. Yes try and improve try and think what went wrong and try and not do it next time. but don't beat your self up to much Please forgive the double post but this one does make the most sense. I was thinking last night that to Hades with my ladder score and forget about promotions and things of that nature. Hit the Random button and just go crazy with things and let the games play out as they do. It's something I should try and not worry so much about getting to a certain "place" in my play and just play as it should be. For fun.
I would say just forget about build orders completely and just build whatever you want and focus on not getting supply blocked.
There was a useful practice method where you would build a huge army and just send it out to attack and not even look at the battle and focus solely on macroing back at home. I suggest you try it a couple times, because even I get caught up in all the battle action and realize that I'm not really doing anything useful
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Some people seem to be somehow inherently good ie. MorroW, Kolll, so yeah i guess some people must be inherently bad too.
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i feel like i'm the only person that doesn't believe in talent, or inherent skill.
i DO feel that some people pick up things faster, but with the right training, training frequency, and mindset you can make up for it.
i'd highly recommend having a skilled friend watch you when you play and give you advice. it really works wonders. you might think you're doing something well, but you're not. you get analysis with the same information you had available to you at the time.
make sure you write down the advice and keep it in mind for next time because if you spend too much time relearning what you forgot you'll never learn anything new.
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I think it mostly lies in how quickly thing's "click" when you're trying to understand a game. Especially if you didn't play bw (or other rts at a high level) it's going to be much more difficult for your brain to really make decisions quickly and accurately in-game, especially if you're nervous.
I know people that played counter strike with me for years, and wouldn't improve at all after hundreds of hours played. Then suddenly, something would click (they don't even know what they did differently) and suddenly improvement started happening, and at a very rapid rate.
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I do believe some people are just inherently bad at this game. Most of my friends that play are decent, but one is pretty bad and since beta we have been trying to teach him the basics and he just cant grasp how to properly play. It'll be 10 minutes into a game and he will still be on 10 drones. The idiot insists on opening 10pool because once in a while he gets a free win, and then if he doesnt get the free win he doesnt build more drones. He just masses units non stop. Doesnt matter how many times we explain this is a bad way to play he still does it.
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I don't think many people are per definition unable to be successful at SC2 or any other game for that matter. It's also mentionworthy that the people with <200 games diamond are most likely players with substantial rts or gaming experience.
I believe in the main benefactor for success is will, or how much you want that master badge / insert goal, sure some individuals have certain handicaps but they're both a. a minority and b. in many cases able to overcome said disadvantage, just look at the TL Deaf interviews.
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I think this is a common scenario in rts games in general. I know people who've remained at the d/d+ level for years on iccup back in bw. Albeit they didn't play for hours and hours everyday, but they did play regularly. I'd suggest making friends with higher level players or people you know you could learn from to get some perspective. I'm no pro, but players of different skill levels view the game entirely differently.
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On March 11 2011 09:52 kainzero wrote:
i feel like i'm the only person that doesn't believe in talent, or inherent skill.
i DO feel that some people pick up things faster, but with the right training, training frequency, and mindset you can make up for it.
i'd highly recommend having a skilled friend watch you when you play and give you advice. it really works wonders. you might think you're doing something well, but you're not. you get analysis with the same information you had available to you at the time.
make sure you write down the advice and keep it in mind for next time because if you spend too much time relearning what you forgot you'll never learn anything new.
I have a friend who's really book smart and studies a lot but would usually do poorly on any pop quizzes and such. He can be decent at the game if he practices, but it's clear that he has no on-the-fly decision making. This is something that people cannot develop. He'll go into a game with a certain plan and try to execute that plan without taking any risks or deviating from it. Sure if he got training from the best players in the world he would get better, but he would still be missing that critical decision making element.
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I think you just need some good practice partners or someone willing to point things out for you.
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Lazy post inc... tbh icba to read the responses. so sorry if its repost. The reason you are still in gold is prolly that you are grinding out ladder games. take a break and watch stream/Gsl. talk to people about strats / read strat frum on tl.. tbh if you dont have anyone close to you that playes you have an disatvantage. other than that .... day9?
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some people are more naturally talented than others, but there's always room for improvement, especially if you focus on the stuff that's letting you down.
that said, it can be hard to progress in leagues since cheesing is so effective and you are always up against strats that are very low difficulty to execute but high reward. If you can learn to beat whatever you most commonly lose to that would be a good start. But keep in mind that you have to play heaps of games to really get anywhere.
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I'd rather say that some people are more naturally inclined to the kind of thinking Starcraft demands than others.
I'm also pretty sure that most gamers were terrible at the games they played when they first started out, but forgot about it because they were 6 years old when they started.
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I think practice and mass-gaming should be able to improve just about anyone's play.
That said, its relatively easy to plateau. In fact its very common and happens to pros even. It sounds like you just haven't correctly identified the *real* reason that you are not improving.
There are exceptions though: if you have little background in gaming and strategy then learning to be good at a game like SC is obviously more difficult. I wouldn't expect my mother to get into masters within 200 games. She just lacks basic control and multitasking abilities that require years of development. That said, if you do have a gaming/strategy background and are proficient at other games, control, multitasking, etc. Then I see no reason for you to plateau at diamond. You should probably grab an hour or two of coaching - that will almost certainly reveal the root of your problems... And once you are actively resolving those issues, your skill will improve by leaps and bounds
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I think when people who are skilled say "Some people are just plain bad at sc2", they are being bm; and when people who are unskilled say "Maybe I just can't play this game" they are making excuses.
Of course it's true that some people have natural talent, and some people will be able to progress much faster than some others. I don't believe that anyone can play at pro level "if they just practice enough", any more than I will ever be a star Olympic skater no matter how many hours I put in.
But a reasonable level of competence is well within the scope of any normal human being with a reasonable amount of time to practice and solid motivation.
Re the whole "Why am I still in [insert league here]", really, ignore that stuff. Work on improving your game. If you drop 10 ranks or even a league, but you lost all those games because you were working your posterior off getting your macro game in order and forcing yourself to use hotkeys - congratulations, you have actually improved.
Ranks and ladder are great but don't let them stop you from playing.
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General rule: people better than you have no life and people worst than you are stupid noobs. This stands whether you are in master league or in bronze league!
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On March 11 2011 09:17 Treetop wrote:
[...]
I step into a game with a AI opponent, my play is pretty smooth. I hit my opening timings just as I need to and get myself off on a good foot for the game. When I hit the ladder, or even play a friend, that opening falters, the build collapses, tunnel vision sets in and I miss Overlords left and right.
[...]
There is something primal taking control of you as if you were in a fight to the death with a leopard or something, despite it only being a game. You could try seeing this as something positive: this is a chance to learn more about your mind and body without actually being in dangerous situations. Other people take up free-climbing, bungee jumping or skydiving and have fun.
I bet you can derive fun out of your situation, if you approach this as some kind of hobby science research project, trying to find out what exactly your brain is making you do while you are in a game. At least it was that way for me, playing FPS competitively.
Years ago, I played in a handful Quake3 1v1 LAN tournaments and actually won first place at two 500 man LANs (because the really good players were all not present). In the matches against players where I had to give it my best to win, I never managed to stay cool and implement what I practiced. Timing the items went out the window, because I could not calculate that while being nervous, so I reverted back to simply deciding with my gut when to switch from defensive play to recklessly rushing at them and aiming them to death.
+ Show Spoiler +My theory about the game and what I practiced for was this: The correct approach for winning would have been to try to have the exact timings for the respawn of several items on the map, having an estimate about the health of the enemy and his position on the map. Then calculate what his best route through the map would be and then deny it to make him settle for lesser items and lower his chances for winning fights. Fights should be approached like poker, weighing the hit chance with various weapons to what the incoming damage would likely be plus your health and the enemy health. This was only possible for me in practice games, but never in tournament matches. In tournaments every decision was made 100 % by gut feeling.
My practice still helped me a lot. I guess the "gut feeling" was actually programmed through practice to be pretty near to what would actually be the best decisions. It was also possible to imagine myself in an important match while practicing, to get myself to be nervous despite it being an unimportant game.
When I tried looking for it, I noticed fun stuff about myself. For example, I was holding my breath while maneuvering in fights, which does not make sense because you are not actually jumping around with your real body and breathing does not interfere with moving the mouse and pressing keys. After I noticed that, I could change it by concentrating on my breathing while in practice games.
What was also an interesting experience was playing clanwars with your team at set dates. This meant you could not choose to not play when you noticed you had a day where you are playing bad, your aim is off etc. The same was the case with LAN tournaments: having a bad day on that weekend felt pretty depressing. This prompted fun research into causes and remedies.
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I've said this in many posts, but people who find that they cannot improve no matter how much they ladder, no matter how much they watch replays, etc, need to find a few good, close friends to practice with on a daily basis. If you have fun while playing and don't care too much about whether you win or lose, you will naturally improve without all the analyzing. Trying your hardest will not necessarily make you learn any faster.
Playing on ladder = stress and analyzing replays = tiresome work, play for fun, try new strategies out with someone you can laugh with but still stay competitive with. Find a rival who always tries to be better than you and you will find even more motivation to improve. Finding someone to look up to is also good as you will try to mimic his/her play and learn faster than trying to develop your own style. It doesn't have to be a pro.
You need to practice against people of all skill levels at a consistent rate to understand the game. Practice against 1 match-up consistently with someone who is at a much higher level that can point out what you are doing wrong and then put those improvements to the test against someone who is at a similar level to you or lower.
It's true that some people learn faster than others, some people may take 100 games to reach diamond whereas others may take as much as 1000. But you can most definitely always improve if you play enough and practice the right way. Have fun with it.
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.... No such thing as "inherently bad" in playing Starcraft(or any RTS at all). Its about your knowledge of the game. I've been playing BW lately and I've been play to C people last season and I begin to notice how bad my timings are. And from there you start to improve
Same to SC2 you got play. Learn from your mistakes and start playing with less mistake. Some people tend to ignore there mistakes and say how good they play. I have a friend who thinks he plays so good but I barely do anything to beat him I try to tell him why you do this why you build this but he keeps ignoring me and thats how you become "inherently bad''.
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Yes, there is such thing as talent. However, that talent alone will only take you so far. And yes, you probably need some of that talent to reach the very top. Someone who's a hard worker but not as talented will do well (e.g. pro-levels) but may never reach the pinnacle.
However, for those that does not aspire to these pro-levels and just want to reach Diamond/Master, I would say anyone can do it if they have the proper dedication. It would also immensely help if these people have a good coach just to point them in the correct direction.
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I want to thank everyone immensely for the great and positive response to this blog. You've all given me a lot to think about and given me some perspective about my play and I thank you very much for that.
Reliable practice partners and/or mentors are a common theme in the responses here and I'd love to have them. However, I've used the practice partner thread, chatted with people I had particularly good games with on ladder afterwards and all that, but we play a few games and they kind of disappear. I tried joining a clan even to get regular practice, but all it ended up being was 15 people in one party watching people 1v1 one at a time. It didn't help me. If I did have someone of higher skill to play with and yell in my ear on Skype when I'm messing up, that would be great. Or having someone I can count on day to day to play a bunch of games with me that would also be great. Just having a hard time finding those things...
As for coaching, I payed for three hours with two different professional coaches. One was pretty helpful and the other just told me to do 5 things all at once and my scatter brain couldn't handle all that information at once. So, I know a mentor would really help as long as he can take it at my pace.
Any one offering? Heh. Treetop.694 if you want! No pressure if not. Zerg player by the way.
Thanks again for all the helpful advice. I really appreciate it.
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I've been helping people in my spare time, so add me @ Ziddy.366 and msg me and I'll see what I can do.
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Some of it honestly sounds likes a nerves/focus problem. Either way, if you're in gold you have a macro issue.
Now earlier in the blog you mentioned that you try to, and in the AI games you do it reasonable enough. What this means is one of two things. Either you get nervous as hell as everything goes to shit, or you get in a real game situation and place way more emphasis on less important things because you're worried about not dying. If you can macro in practice games but can't in real games it means your focus is changing in real games to things it should not be one. Its deeply ingrained for you so you need to do drills to break it most likely.
In either event, you need to break this cycle. Play your regular 1v1's with only one thing in mind. Macro.
If you can't even get your barracks down because you'll miss scv's to do it, thats fine. Same thing, if you can't scout for some cheese, or micro against a cheese because you'll miss a production round or depot don't worry about it. Your mindset of practice vs play is completely off, you really need to drill yourself out of it.
Yes, there are people that are just not talented at video games. That bar is certainly nowhere near gold though. Maybe somewhere in diamond, but probably masters.
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This has probably been said already. But if could be that you are nervous which can significantly change your play.
Try listening to music that relaxes you while you play, at a reasonable volume of course. Also if you get frustrated take a small break then play some more.
edit, feel free to hit me up for practice games Ulfsark.345
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On March 11 2011 10:10 awu25 wrote:
I have a friend who's really book smart and studies a lot but would usually do poorly on any pop quizzes and such. He can be decent at the game if he practices, but it's clear that he has no on-the-fly decision making. This is something that people cannot develop. He'll go into a game with a certain plan and try to execute that plan without taking any risks or deviating from it. Sure if he got training from the best players in the world he would get better, but he would still be missing that critical decision making element.
people can easily develop on-the-fly decision making once you guide them towards it and if they practice it.
in fighting games most people develop decision making through tons and tons of experience and practice. it might not be obvious in the beginning and they might feel like there's a plateau, but by grinding through it and having people point out when these situations happen, they learn to see through it.
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Mindsets, proper practice, and proper strategic, technical styles (mechanics), and tactics really are graspable by most people - though overcoming all these barriers at once is daunting, I think most people that don't have a handicap of some sort are capable.
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I have some RL friends that I am pretty confident could never hit masters.
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On March 11 2011 16:51 Bosu wrote:
I have some RL friends that I am pretty confident could never hit masters.
I think anyone can. Obviously if everyone did the scene would be a lot different BUT I do think its possible. Learning to execute in-game a solid/optimal plan will take you to the highest levels of master imo. Most people who think they play really tight in diamond or whatever are actually making tons of mistakes and bad reads/decisions all through out the game and nothing needed to fix it comes down to physical ability or "Speed" in-game, it all just comes down to better use of your time and knowing when and where to do things that are trivial to even low level players.
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I think I'm gonna get crap for this...
There are a plurality of people who are not smart enough to be good at competitive games, including SC/SC2. It's not a matter of lack of practice or devotion. They just do not possess the specific mental faculties needed to succeed at a fast-paced strategy game.
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On March 11 2011 17:18 tirentu wrote:
I think I'm gonna get crap for this...
There are a plurality of people who are not smart enough to be good at competitive games, including SC/SC2. It's not a matter of lack of practice or devotion. They just do not possess the specific mental faculties needed to succeed at a fast-paced strategy game.
True, but dumb people don't really practice or work hard at anything, so it's hard to tell the difference here.
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On March 11 2011 17:18 tirentu wrote:
I think I'm gonna get crap for this...
There are a plurality of people who are not smart enough to be good at competitive games, including SC/SC2. It's not a matter of lack of practice or devotion. They just do not possess the specific mental faculties needed to succeed at a fast-paced strategy game.
It takes minimal intelligence to make workers, follow a tight build, and macro, and make extremely basic responses to scouting intel. These things alone get you into masters. You said good, so I don't know specifically what threshold of good you mean, but I think its is an exceptionally small percentage of the population that is incapable of making masters (obviously if everyone wanted to make masters and worked correctly for it that wouldn't be true. but that doesn't happen anyway).
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Eh although i said some people are probably inherently good/bad i forgot to say anyone can get to masters. If it's the equivalent of D+ iccup like i keep hearing there's no reason to not be able to reach that level. Although it may be the top 2% there's so many inactive and bad players who don't learn and just play the same every time. Once they reset the ladder i suppose it will balance out a bit more.
As long as you got a reasonable minimum APM you play at, around 100 lets just say, i think masters is well within reach. It's enough to do what you need to do and you can reach it with minimal hotkey use and mostly clicking so i think anyone should be able to.
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This is my first time reading this, so forgive me if somebody already stated this opinion.
There is no way to be inherently bad at SC2, there is definitely the potential to be worse than another player or a natural at the game much like sports or math or writing. Each human has specifics traits that they are inherently better that than other humans at a given task, or worse. Not inherently bad or good, just better or worse, it's all relative to your sample size.
There are ways to get better. In high school I was on the wrestling team and wasn't very good my first year. However with training, i was able to improve and actually become ranked fairly well in the state. I continued on into college and found that I did not progress further. Was I inherently bad compared to Olympians? or was I inherently good compared to everyone I beat. It's a matter of sampling a populace and POV.
So no, there is no way to be inherently bad at SC2. You can be worse than someone else, and you can train to become better, but there is always a peak based on your natural skill and your ability to learn.
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of course there's people who will always be inherently better or worse at a particular activity due to conditions beyond their control (phsyical or mental traits, etc)
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EPT
