As the title states, I'm not really enjoying the game right now. I took a few days off because I wasn't really having much fun. This is a list of what happened in the latest games I have played after the break:
(PS I play Protoss and am in mid masters or something like that, if being in the top 1% of all North American Star 2 players matters at all)
Game 1: A PvP on Scrap Station. Oh yay. The only real viable build is 4 gate, so I go ahead and do that. My opponent does the same thing, but apparently he sucks ass so his cyber core is 30 whole seconds later if not longer, had less probes even though I cut the standard fuck-ton you do so when 4 gating in PvP. Needless to say it was an easy, if not hollow and pointless win. It seems that Protoss' are either really good or suck balls. It ashames me that a player who can't even pull off the easiest Protoss build in the game got into masters.
Game 2: PvZ on Steppes. I'd normally ask "Why the hell Zerg's don't veto this map?" but really it's because of all the free wins they get from all-inning. This time it's the 3 roach ling all-in. I scout it, but apparently 4 gate and walling in isn't fast enough to stop it. I almost did too, but what happens is that just when you have almost stabilized and say to yourself "K I got this" A new batch of lings runs up to punch you in the gut.
Game 3: PvP on Steppes. He 2 gate proxied me but those are not very hard to stop. I make another gate, stall for a bit, and just trade zealots with him as my probe advantage comes into play and I can overpower him. Not much to say apart from the fact that this was the most fun game I played today, which is sad.
Game 4: PvT on Xel' Naga. I 4 gate him because he has the word "rush" in his name. He went for a 2 rax expand, so since Terran can expand and fully commit to an attack at the same time he did so, got a free stalker as I moved out to set up my proxy pylon and pushed into my base, easily seeing the 4 gates. I lost a few units but traded evenly, so I went out to set up my pylon again, because from what I have learned from experience is that most Terran's will expand like a robot if that's what their build is, and guess what? As my units set up in his natural he tries to move out down the ramp with a smaller army, CC floating in, and he gets utterly smashed. Every Terran I play seems to see a 4 gate and say to themselves "I guess that means I can make more marauders and expand amirite?" when really its more effective imo than 4 gate in PvZ. At least he GG'd, which is a first. Overall a decent game I suppose, though not the most fun as I don't like 4 gating too much. It's good to work on the micro against imbarines and imbarauders though.
Game 5: PvT with the same guy on Xel' Naga, again. I go for a 1 gate FE because it basically looks like the same thing as a 4 gate until the nexus gets thrown down. It probably worked because all he did was make 4 rax and all in me over and over again. The first 3 times I came out ahead, though he apparently managed to expand in the meantime. In the end I lost because we traded armies so much that the imbastim slowly pushed everything towards into his favor. By the time I had Collosus it was too late because my army was just too small, and then I got mined out in my main and was basically screwed. Terran is the only race who can all in against a FE opponent, completely fail, expand and still win later on. If it were a Zerg or Toss all in you could just counter and win.
Game 6: PvZ on Metalopolis. I breathe a sigh of relief. Until I scout that we were in close positions. See, I have this awful habit of losing no matter what if my race is favored in a certain position. See exhibit A: my PvZ winrate was ~25% on Jungle Basin. Everything looks normal, I deny his hatch first with a pylon, and scout what looks like a speedling opening. I am like, OK, everything is going fine. However, my 2nd and 3rd gate in my 3 gate expand build was probably 10 or so seconds late, and that's what it takes to lose when your opponent roach ling allin's you. Of course it's impossible to scout since he killed the pylon with lings at the standard time, and have lings outside your base so you can't sneak a probe out to see if he actually expanded, which is what I usually try to do. I type "I wish every Zerg I play wouldn't all in me" and after the game he spouts the usual "ZvP close metal is hell for Zerg stfu toss noob" and then "QQ" after the game when I tell him to leave me alone. Funny how Zerg is the only race that can fully justify cheesing the fuck out of everything with imbalance, even though their cheeses are better than everyone elses'.
I find another game vs a random on Xel' Naga. However I realize that the game is no fun so I leave and exit Starcraft. I have done this more than once too :\
A week ago before my break when I played around 20 games in one day I got 50% PvZ, 50%+ of that were all ins, and 50% PvP. The exception is one PvRandom who spawned as Terran on Shakuras.
A protip to all you Terran players out there, if you build 20 tanks and 10+ thors against Protoss you autowin no matter what they build. Also, spend thousands of minerals on turrets everywhere, the frustration of not being able to scout anything worth shit you instill in your Protoss opponent is worth it.
The thing is, I really want to like to play this game. It can be fun at times but not when over 75% (100% in today's case) of every game has at least someone allinning or cheesing.
On a side note: I have been trying to play Brood War a fair bit recently too. Terran to be exact. BW games just look 10x more exciting then every SC2 game, and that's just watching them. Look at any BW VOD. Even the most mediocre games are more exciting than the best SC2 games, and whenever there is an epic SC2 game everyone compares it to BW. The problem I have encountered is twofold however: 1) Goddamn it is impossible to wall properly. The wall in thread is a godsend but it's still incredibly difficult to memorize specific walls that work. Especially on 4 player maps z0mg. and 2) It's impossible to get games on ICCup. Apparently people get offended from seeing "D/D- FS you P" since nobody ever joins, and I'm 99% sure that it is not due to any latency or anything because I never lag and have had people join games before. It's impossible to find an appropriate game to join as well, since everyone is at least D with 1500 points or D+, and is Korean on top of that. Sure I know I have to go through the 0-80 loss streak initiation ritual to get properly used to the game but when it takes 20 minutes to find the game it just isn't worth it to die to 2 zealots who found a hole in my wall.
For the bw part : Glad you like it ! Don't wall unless you mech TvZ. And don't mech TvZ if you're still learning. Whenever I create a game like "D map", people join instantly. Either you're not on the right map or maybe you should drop the P part. Or just play D games, and filter out anyone above 1500. Try OP teamliquid too.
With regards to your comment about games on ICCUP, I wouldn't be so sure that it's not some technical problem. I don't know the details on their networking, but circumstantially my experience is that even with the correct ports opened hosting doesn't always work, sometimes I have to remake the game to get it to show up in the list. Also you should go to channel op teamliquid because there is usually someone willing to play practice games there.
2) It's impossible to get games on ICCup. Apparently people get offended from seeing "D/D- FS you P" since nobody ever joins, and I'm 99% sure that it is not due to any latency or anything because I never lag and have had people join games before. It's impossible to find an appropriate game to join as well, since everyone is at least D with 1500 points or D+, and is Korean on top of that. Sure I know I have to go through the 0-80 loss streak initiation ritual to get properly used to the game but when it takes 20 minutes to find the game it just isn't worth it to die to 2 zealots who found a hole in my wall.
I have never had trouble with people joining "you P" games.
Also, it usually doesn't take long to find games in op teamliquid.
terran in bw is ridiculously hard to play, if i had to guess i'd say you need probably 160+ apm minimum to be able to have enough multitask to get out of D -.-
On February 20 2011 06:03 Geovu wrote: On a side note: I have been trying to play Brood War a fair bit recently too. Terran to be exact. BW games just look 10x more exciting then every SC2 game, and that's just watching them. Look at any BW VOD. Even the most mediocre games are more exciting than the best SC2 games, and whenever there is an epic SC2 game everyone compares it to BW. The problem I have encountered is twofold however: 1) Goddamn it is impossible to wall properly. The wall in thread is a godsend but it's still incredibly difficult to memorize specific walls that work. Especially on 4 player maps z0mg. and 2) It's impossible to get games on ICCup. Apparently people get offended from seeing "D/D- FS you P" since nobody ever joins, and I'm 99% sure that it is not due to any latency or anything because I never lag and have had people join games before. It's impossible to find an appropriate game to join as well, since everyone is at least D with 1500 points or D+, and is Korean on top of that. Sure I know I have to go through the 0-80 loss streak initiation ritual to get properly used to the game but when it takes 20 minutes to find the game it just isn't worth it to die to 2 zealots who found a hole in my wall.
gg.
Haha, I know what you mean. I've just started playing some BW and I was doing siege expand with terran. I played the BO a few times against the AI but it never occurred to me that building the Ebay or CC near the ramp could cause problems So many ways to insta-lose if you mess something up.
BTW liquipedia is good for quickly finding wall-ins.
2) It's impossible to get games on ICCup. Apparently people get offended from seeing "D/D- FS you P" since nobody ever joins, and I'm 99% sure that it is not due to any latency or anything because I never lag and have had people join games before. It's impossible to find an appropriate game to join as well, since everyone is at least D with 1500 points or D+, and is Korean on top of that. Sure I know I have to go through the 0-80 loss streak initiation ritual to get properly used to the game but when it takes 20 minutes to find the game it just isn't worth it to die to 2 zealots who found a hole in my wall.
I have never had trouble with people joining "you P" games.
Also, it usually doesn't take long to find games in op teamliquid.
When I go to that channal there is often only 1 other person there, I don't know maybe it is the time I usually try to play?
Often I end up getting on around 8-12 PM CST, which is according to the internetz right around afternoon in Korea. I didn't know Starcraft players get up that early because the only people I can find at that time are Koreans.
On February 20 2011 06:19 mcht wrote: with that imba/whine mindset its no surprise u have no fun playing the game :D
I have that mindset because all the games I play are shit, not the other way around.
Supply depots go above barracks. Everything you need to know about walling-in with Terran.
If I were you, I'd get some of your SC2 friends to play some BW with you, that way you have people your own level who you can learn the game with.
Sadly in BW there isn't a 'MAKE PEOPLE PLAY WITH ME BUTTON' so you have to be a little sociable Usually you can find someone willing to play on the IRC channel, if nothing else.
20 games a day? It sounds like your real problem, my friend, is simply that you're sick of the game. Try taking a longer break from SC2, playing some other games, and then coming back to it. When you do, try not playing it quite so frequently. You might enjoy it more.
This inspired me to go back to broodwar iccup and my god im sorry but even the nostalgia couldnt win me over game seemed laggy and unresponsive. gotta baby sit all my poor zerglings but they got raped by vultures. might play again later though. like datum said just take a break and come back to it.
i switched to z from t today. not going back, ever. i can see your frustration about all-ins, 70% of tosses i played tried cannon rushing me, they usually switched to a late 4 gate which i rolled with my huge econ advantage and it's not really fun. the 30+ minute macro games are most fun, but they're far and few :<
On February 20 2011 07:02 Datum wrote: 20 games a day? It sounds like your real problem, my friend, is simply that you're sick of the game. Try taking a longer break from SC2, playing some other games, and then coming back to it. When you do, try not playing it quite so frequently. You might enjoy it more.
No kidding, I can't even have sex for 5 hours a day.
On February 20 2011 06:03 Geovu wrote:all in me over and over again
Not to be a dick or anything, but that doesn't make any sense. An all-in attack is one where it either wins the game immediately or loses the game immediately. You can't all-in more than once, you can just fully commit to an attack more than once.
I recommend making some friends online (via op teamliquid for example) and playing them off of the ladder. I find that when it's not a ladder match, players care more about working on their macro-game than they do about doing 1-base or cheese builds for an easy win.
So I see you complaining about all-ins, so far so good, now compare BW with SC2, BW was released over 10 year ago, people have now learned the most efficient way to play the game, SC2 is 8 months old, just wait for the game to develop a bit, make people realize that macro is better than micro. If you want long games more macro games DO play SC:BW, that's why zerg just own MSL and OSL in Korea, they macro like bosses and beat the shit out of P and T,
Like your post :D Believe me I H A T E all-ins hang in there man
Funny how Zerg is the only race that can fully justify cheesing the fuck out of everything with imbalance, even though their cheeses are better than everyone elses'. cough zerg cheeses are better than everyone elses explain?
walls aren't hard to memorize lol, just practice vs comps first before you play on Iccup (reference pro VODs for walls)
and its better just to learn simcity defense (barracks/supply, slip marine back and forth to kill Zealot w.o, taking dmg) instead because not all maps you can wall.
I'll never get all this "BW is so much better to watch" talk. I didn't did into BW early enough to be good at it, and only really started playing SC with SC2...and BW just really isn't that amazing to watch. You like it better because you've played it for 10 years, and understand every tiny little nuance and aspect of the game. From a pure spectator perspective, and without the experience of 10+ years playing the game...SC2 is just as interesting, and way easier on the eyes to watch.
On February 20 2011 13:09 Sm3agol wrote: I'll never get all this "BW is so much better to watch" talk. I didn't did into BW early enough to be good at it, and only really started playing SC with SC2...and BW just really isn't that amazing to watch. You like it better because you've played it for 10 years, and understand every tiny little nuance and aspect of the game. From a pure spectator perspective, and without the experience of 10+ years playing the game...SC2 is just as interesting, and way easier on the eyes to watch.
Ok, it takes like 10 mintues total to explain any matchup to someone and about 5 minutes to describe SC:BW progaming. BW is so much better to watch because there is history there, every current BW progamer started because of their absolute love for the game and thirst for competition. This high level of competition brings not just a mechanical game but a psychological one.
SC2 as it is now is great looking and the fights look amazing but most games are decided in 1 bad engagement with your whole army, but that is just because this game is so new and still gets balance updates. SC:BW and SC2 are two different beasts and should not be compared.
@op, I think it is a latency problem, I logged on to Iccup recently and had no problems finding D-/D game
On February 20 2011 07:02 Datum wrote: 20 games a day? It sounds like your real problem, my friend, is simply that you're sick of the game. Try taking a longer break from SC2, playing some other games, and then coming back to it. When you do, try not playing it quite so frequently. You might enjoy it more.
No kidding, I can't even have sex for 5 hours a day.
When I discovered BW, I played 6 hours a day for 3 years. Then I played less but mainly because a lot of my online friends quit.
On February 20 2011 13:09 Sm3agol wrote: I'll never get all this "BW is so much better to watch" talk. I didn't did into BW early enough to be good at it, and only really started playing SC with SC2...and BW just really isn't that amazing to watch. You like it better because you've played it for 10 years, and understand every tiny little nuance and aspect of the game. From a pure spectator perspective, and without the experience of 10+ years playing the game...SC2 is just as interesting, and way easier on the eyes to watch.
Watch the whole series. Or just the 1st, 2nd (for teh lulz) and 5th if you don't have the time or something. Every game had a player who 1 based and for the majority of the games the guy who tried to expand lost. Yet personally I found the games far more exciting than the majority of SC2 games to watch. You don't even need to understand anything about the MU at all to watch. You don't need to know the stats of a vulture to see them lay down a minefield to protect a line of siege tanks, and then see them zip over to an enemy expansion and see them kill an entire probe line. You don't need any knowledge of the game to see siege tanks blow up dragoons and think "Wow thats pretty cool".
Also, watch this:
TBH, both the players were kinda shitty and it's a little one sided, not much happens for the first half of the game and if it wasn't for the updated UI of SC2 it would be even worse, but I still found it to be quite exciting.
Between that one game and the series above I realized that it wasn't player skill, or the all in problem, or even the graphics that make BW exciting. Even the crappiest BW games are more fun to watch than a lot of SC2 games. If you ask me for a good BW game to watch I could basically pull any single video of a game off youtube and show you it. On the other hand, you have to dig quite a bit to find excellent and entertaining SC2 games. Sure there's a lot, between basically every GSL TvZ on Shakuras, the GSTL finals or the epic Boxer vs Kyrix series, but between all of those are mediocre piles of crap that I honestly wish I didn't spend the time to watch.
I'm not trying to bash SC2, but personally I find BW more exciting ATM. I'm hoping some drastic change in the metagame, a new big patch or the expansions will improve SC2, but those kinds of things are far away. On the other hand, I could just play BW instead of playing these mediocre SC2 games that I don't enjoy. After all, if I ever feel like punching a hole in my monitor captain falcon style I can always start up SC2 again and losing to more roach ling all ins.
And on a side note: It took longer than it probably should of (If there is one piece of hardware I have the most trouble understanding it is the router, lol) but I fixed the latency thing and can host properly now I was flabbergasted at the problem considering people could join customs, games with passwords, etc. but it was only whenever I try to host a public 1 on 1 game that people would never join. Also sorry for the rant, didn't mean to type so much lol T.T
EPT
So many ways to insta-lose if you mess something up.
Usually you can find someone willing to play on the IRC channel, if nothing else.
game seemed laggy and unresponsive. gotta baby sit all my poor zerglings but they got raped by vultures. might play again later though. like datum said just take a break and come back to it.
