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Once someone told me that if there was something irritating me and there was nobody to talk to then I should write it down. I have done that before and it seems to work. My most notable work of this kind is a letter I wrote to me ex-girlfriend. It was written to her but I never meant to give it to her. I never did give it to her and that's a good thing because it probably would have made her cry. This is me writing out my slowly calming frustration and an invitation for anyone else to do the same. But I couldn't care less your opinion about whether Idra should or should not be on some poll that will be forgotten about in a week or so.
ANYWAY, the thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181427 was about how GosuGamers had a poll for the best Starcraft II person of the year but they did not want to include Idra because they had this thing and then he did the other thing and then people k kl fh hasdjkghsjakgnasdglasdjhg...
It was a crazy thread where Zelniq changed the title for kicks and everyone was jumping in to support Idra and rage against the Gosu people and make logical arguments and other shit.
This brings back the memory of the first thread I ever created here on Team Liquid. I called it "Writing Over Reading." It wasn't the best original post ever made and it wasn't a very popular thread. However, I still believe I made a good point about how people read something and even if they read the entire post they still usually throw down whatever the first emotion they felt as they read. People do this when they speak too. It's the old "Do you listen, or wait to speak" thing.
This thread was a great example of emotional posting. When I first read the post I wanted to correct an error that the original poster made saying there was only one North American (Huk) on the list for GosuGamers player of the year. I just wanted to point out that qxc was an American. Then people started to discuss the Idra ordeal and the bad blood between him and GosuGamers. I had pretty much brushed that whole issue aside when I first read the post. So second post in the thread was already the 62nd reply on the fourth page saying, "I just want to know why GosuGamers took this issue the way they did? What is THEIR point of view?" I'm pretty sure my question was completely ignored by dozens of Idra supporters and newly turned GosuGamer haters. I don't really care if you love Idra, hate Idra, love GosuGamers, or hate Gosu Gamers. I just wanted to find out the other side of the story.
Holy shit, it was a prime example of fast, emotionally fueled posting. I posted again later on just saying that the whole thing was not really a big deal but people were still trash talking the GosuGamers poll around then. Shortly after my last post, the thread was closed by Nazgul after saying, "Unbelievable none of you guys have bothered to look for an explanation from gosugamers and judge them so easily nonetheless. Get a clue."
Maybe he was talking about people asking GosuGamers directly. But damn that's when my frustration kicked in. I was trying to figure out why they would feel that way and not want Idra in their poll. My mom always told me there were two sides to every story and I was just curious. I had no emotional outburst until the thread was closed and I felt like I was trying to be sensible and most other people were not. Then the worst part of this entire situation is that I feel like a 13 year old girl writing in her journal after a rough day at school where one of the popular girls made a hurtful joke about my new haircut. Is that even what girls make fun of each other for?
Well, shit. I have rambled enough. There is a good chance I could have organized this and made it somewhat readable, but that would not align with my goal of writing it. I wanted to not care about that stuff and just get down my thoughts before I go to bed. And now I will go to bed without having to worry about the threat of having demented dreams of Idra, GosuGamers, and the legion of Team Liquid crazies.
P.S. I still love you TL. At least for now.
 
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Gosugamers:
IdrA signed up for the Holiday special, qualified for final 8 but then in pure calculated spite against GG.net, he showed up to let us know he was not going to play. We´re not saying he´s not a good player, or maybe even the greatest, but if you´re here to spoil the hard work that we´re putting in for free for you guys (in fact spending €500 on in addition to hard work) then you do not deserve to be on the list.
He was banned from the site as a User and was given a second chance after 2 years and that's how it went.
So he's disqualified from all considerations and its just as simple as that, please accept it and either vote on the other guys and write it off as the non-idra awards or dont, its your free choice as human beings.
Idra:
On January 03 2011 15:53 IdrA wrote:
the incident they're referring to, i qualified for their christmas tour thing
when they messaged me to get online to play the final 8 i realized that i was actually banned from gosugamers so it would be inappropriate to play in the tournament and forfeited my spot.
Bottom line there are always two sides to every story. I think it is impossible for us to know exactly what happened so we'll just have to accept that the truth is somewhere in the middle. That means, to protect your blog from becoming another shitfest, if people are going to speculate on whichever side was right about the original incident without any good reasoning they are going to be warned or banned.
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Gosugamers banned idra so they should have declined his signing from the beginning. Instead, idra realised in the midst of it all that he was banned before gosugamers could realise which is rather incompetent on gosugamers' behalf.
Also, Idra being that the person that he is (charging $150/hr lessons), it seems rather suspicious that he would throw away potential prize money like that. Idra does seem like the type of person to act on impulse, but he never lets it get in the way of his practical success (which is why you don't see him BMing in real life).
Unless i am missing something, this is just gosugamers are the one who are at fault.
User was temp banned for this post and a history of warnings and bans.
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Holy shit, it was a prime example of fast, emotionally fueled posting. I posted again later on just saying that the whole thing was not really a big deal but people were still trash talking the GosuGamers poll around then. Shortly after my last post, the thread was closed by Nazgul after saying, "Unbelievable none of you guys have bothered to look for an explanation from gosugamers and judge them so easily nonetheless. Get a clue."
Maybe he was talking about people asking GosuGamers directly. But damn that's when my frustration kicked in. I was trying to figure out why they would feel that way and not want Idra in their poll. My mom always told me there were two sides to every story and I was just curious. I had no emotional outburst until the thread was closed and I felt like I was trying to be sensible and most other people were not. Then the worst part of this entire situation is that I feel like a 13 year old girl writing in her journal after a rough day at school where one of the popular girls made a hurtful joke about my new haircut. Is that even what girls make fun of each other for?
First of all, Gosugamers posted their side of the story several times in their thread. You could have read any of the number of posts in which they delve into the situation. That info was out there, don't know why you had so much trouble finding it. I agree with Nazgul about the original "incident" between GG and IdrA, and regardless of who was right or wrong (truth is probably somewhere in the middle, as Nazgul said) this entire situation could have been avoided by including him in the poll. No one would have been up in arms about why he was included in a poll of the best foreign players in the world. In fact, it's expected that he'd be there. In fact, NOT having him there is such a glaring omission that it was SURE to be discussed. And GG.net knew this, which is why their first post after the poll was a preemptive answer to the "Where is IdrA?" question. Him not being there appears to be a purposeful stirring of the pot to either increase views or put a spotlight on the entire situation, and this kind of decision making is what many people took issue with.
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From everlast (GG), this might fill in some of the holes.
#115 - I think that anytime you assume or presume something, you should be a bit more humble and include "I think" or "I guess" or something like that.
You are making a statement without facts. IdrA did a random sign-up for one of our events, and then proceeded to qualify for the top 8. On the day of top 8 he decided to turn an old childish vendetta into "oh I guess since I am banned from GG as a member I cant play the tournament"
Well guess what? It´s two different things, and I would think that´d be obvious on its own since we allowed him to play the qualification.
It just comes down to childish sentiments that go back 2-3 years as I understand it. But pulling that stunt in one of our events, intentionally, he did earn him himself a ban indefinitely, to compete in our events.
We´re trying to build up eSports here, having ego-maniacs come in and spoil it for everyone is not aiding our efforts. We run a pro-bono organisation and our admins dedicate their time to provide everyone who comes here (whether for content or tournaments) with things to enjoy. Are we perfect? No, but please keep your accusations straight. If in doubt, ask.
Assumption is the mother of all f-ups
It seems Idra was indeed "banned" around 2 years ago which coincides with the updated explanation. There seems to be some miscommunication here however.
Personal Harrassment @ 3 years ago
Insulting member. @ 3 years ago
Insulting staff. @ 3 years ago
2nd time insulting staff - 2 weeks lock @ 3 years ago
2 accounts - extended to 1 month lock @ 3 years ago
trolling news. perm lock. @ 2 years ago
If what everlast says is true, I respect his decision.
Why?
1) It is titled "GosuGamers Awards 2010: Best Non-Korean of the Year". It's their award, they can decide who to nominate. If you don't like it, make your own poll or just don't vote (and they have stated this in the comments). No one is enforcing/claiming that the results of this poll are absolute about who was the best sc player this year.
2) Let's say I create my own "starcraft of the year award" and one of the potential nominees calls me a useless piece of shit. Am I going to nominate this guy even if he is definitely worthy of nomination skill wise? I think it's quite obvious. This is my award, why would I hand it to some guy who just insulted me? GG clearly felt they were disrespected in this situation.
Anyways I think people are being deliberately controversial about this for no good reason.
Heck people are going crazy over this when I doubt even Idra cares he's on some GG "player of the year" award or w/e
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Its their award. 'GOSUGAMERS Best Non-Kr Player'
They can in/exclude anyone they want.
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I can't see gosugamers trying to promote esports if they are actually so petty that idra just screwed a tournament then decided that they would remove him cause he did that.
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There are still voices of reason, sometimes, faintly... Thanks AirbladeOrange, Liquid`Nazgul, JoeSchmoe.
Didn't know about the poll or the thread, but reading it now it's a pretty sad sight and that even TL representatives/staff have no shame and happily fall to that same level and join the 'fun' is disillusioning. But it's good to know the people around you. Thankfully Nazgul saved the day. Twice.
5 star blog for honesty and prudence, although I won't hold a candle to the army of emotional apes.
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Im glad they excluded IdrA. Just throughing that out there
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Those awards include more than just skills/results. There's also a sportsmanship side to those awards. They've always been there.
Quoting from 2006 awards: "Is awarded to an individual who has superior gaming technique, good manners and displays great sportsmanship."
Now I like IdrA, but that doesn't exactly sound like him, hehe.
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"gosugamers hosting a foreign player of the year award, everyone should go vote for ret! http://bit.ly/hBRAlb 17 minutes ago via web "
-Idrajit
Ironical stab at gg
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Post #9 on GG:
As I said, the voting will be fixed soon, sorry about that. This is a note to all of you; please don't ask "why isn't this guy here?" and stuff like that, picking the nominees hasn't been easy, but after a long consideration, these are the players we decided to go with, for the reasons stated in the article  So instead of asking for your favorite player if he isn't there, praise the nominees instead!
In my mind, this pretty much summarizes it all. They nominated the players for whatever reason, and those are the players you get to vote for. Even if Idra wasn't included in the poll for the reason given, he could've been NOT nominated for any other number of reasons.
This is like watching the final contestants of American Idol and saying, "Where is so and so?" The judges pick who gets to be in the finals, and America votes for who actually wins (if I'm not mistaken, I don't follow American Idol much). If you're not happy with that, don't vote. Not trying to be rude, but I think that's pretty plain and simple.
On a side note: They didn't include Brat_OK so I almost didn't vote, but went with Huk instead.
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Ignoring the poll and GG for now and focusing on the OP i think you bring up an interesting point.
Quite often when you read something you get stuck at one tine part of the whole that you feel you just have to comment on, grammar-nazis (er... hope that term not taken as offensive here) are the most obvious example. One of my IRL-friends is a self-proclaimed grammar-nazi and he sees it as a big problem, when reading a long nice OP if there is a small error in the second sentence that overrules the rest of the content, like a big neon sign in his head flashing "ITS YOU'RE".
So instead of replying to the point of the post, even if it is a really nice insightful post he ends up replying with a one-liner that adds absolutely nothing the the thread. He is well aware of this and is actively trying to ignore his brains first instict and focus on the overlying point of the post. Same thing for plenty of Americans and "QXC" in that thread.
Actually, you see it pretty much all over the place, i bet i could find examples of it in every single thread here at TL.net. That is part of the reason i like it when the mods crack down on posters who only post one-liners, since one-liners quite often is a prime example of this.
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I don't think it really matters anymore. The news got out and ran it's course; few people are going to take this poll as anything more than a European popularity contest.
It's negative publicity for putting personal opinion above objectivity.
What this does is start to cement GosuGamers as *not* being a Starcraft "authority" or hub like Team Liquid, at least in my mind. GosuGamers is being shown more and more to be unprofessional both as its members and as an organization.
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I think I may have a had a little part in Idra getting banned from there so now I feel terrible.
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On January 03 2011 23:34 Zerokaiser wrote:
I don't think it really matters anymore. The news got out and ran it's course; few people are going to take this poll as anything more than a European popularity contest.
It's negative publicity for putting personal opinion above objectivity.
What this does is start to cement GosuGamers as *not* being a Starcraft "authority" or hub like Team Liquid, at least in my mind. GosuGamers is being shown more and more to be unprofessional both as its members and as an organization.
This is an example of why TL.net is going down hill.......actually that whole thread the OP was talking about and a lot of responses in this thread really...really have disappointed me about TL.
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On January 03 2011 23:34 Zerokaiser wrote:
I don't think it really matters anymore. The news got out and ran it's course; few people are going to take this poll as anything more than a European popularity contest.
It's negative publicity for putting personal opinion above objectivity.
What this does is start to cement GosuGamers as *not* being a Starcraft "authority" or hub like Team Liquid, at least in my mind. GosuGamers is being shown more and more to be unprofessional both as its members and as an organization.
I read the replies of teamliquid staffers in the related thread and came to the opposite conclusion. Teamliquid is pretty much uncontested, but that makes it even more despicable to kick the one that is already weaker than you, especially without considering the reasons for his "misbehaviour" fairly. Really only Nazgul hitting the breaks there.
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On January 04 2011 00:18 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 23:34 Zerokaiser wrote:
I don't think it really matters anymore. The news got out and ran it's course; few people are going to take this poll as anything more than a European popularity contest.
It's negative publicity for putting personal opinion above objectivity.
What this does is start to cement GosuGamers as *not* being a Starcraft "authority" or hub like Team Liquid, at least in my mind. GosuGamers is being shown more and more to be unprofessional both as its members and as an organization.
This is an example of why TL.net is gone down hill.......actually that whole thread the OP was talking about and a lot of responses in this thread really...really have disappointed me about TL.
Comments like this make me wonder if people even know the history between the two sites
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There's always 2 sides of the story.
Lets face it, IdrA is a big name.
People love to hate him.
He will draw a crowd.
No wonder GG got a little butthurt after he forfeited his spot, but ALL THIS DRAMA?
What are we in fuckin high school?
Come on people, grow the fuck up. Shit happens, time to move on.
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Because being a dick makes you less of a good player.
This proves in my opinion that GG.net is biased instead of setting aside their own feelings for players and actually let the voters decide who is the best player. Tho it's their decision and I think people should care less considering we all know what IdrA achieved and an award from a site that doesn't nominate people they don't like isn't worth anything anyways.
Imagine the TL Power Rank without Jaedong because the admins don't like him, should say enough about the credibility of such ranking.
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^ Yeah
Gosugamers - Where shit happens, just move on.
"Best Non-Korean of the Year". Manner was not a part of the title or the criteria, which makes this award completely irrelevent for anyone with half a brain.
Sure this is gosugamers own award, so they can choose their rules without announcing them or anything, but that doesn't mean that just because its gosugamers doing the award that it somehow legitimizes it when they exclude players not because of skill but because of their attitude.
They state that they're trying to make e-sport more professional by doing this, but they're doing the opposite when they account for their personal relationship with a player when they're awarding the best player of the year.
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they should've just let it go, invite Idra to Dreamhack and when he's there tell him he can't play because he's banned from gg.net. I seriously can't believe how many people are defending Idra here when it's so clear he did it just to screw someone else' hard work.
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On January 04 2011 01:16 Senx wrote:
^ Yeah
Gosugamers - Where shit happens, just move on.
"Best Non-Korean of the Year". Manner was not a part of the title or the criteria, which makes this award completely irrelevent for anyone with half a brain.
Sure this is gosugamers own award, so they can choose their rules without announcing them or anything, but that doesn't mean that just because its gosugamers doing the award that it somehow legitimizes it when they exclude players not because of skill but because of their attitude.
They state that they're trying to make e-sport more professional by doing this, but they're doing the opposite when they account for their personal relationship with a player when they're awarding the best player of the year.
Agreed, this is exactly how I feel. Obviously they can do whatever they want since its their award, but to me it ruins the professionalism and legitimacy of the award to not only exclude a top player and top candidate for the award, but to do so out of an irrelevant personal vendetta.
On January 04 2011 01:22 ondik wrote:
they should've just let it go, invite Idra to Dreamhack and when he's there tell him he can't play because he's banned from gg.net. I seriously can't believe how many people are defending Idra here when it's so clear he did it just to screw someone else' hard work.
Congrats, you'd have to have quite a massive ego (or just a smaller number of brain cells) to post something this stupid and make such a ridiculous statement with almost no facts or knowledge to back it up.
I just realized how stupid all of this is though. I mean really, does this award actually matter in the slightest?
User was warned for this post
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ondik, I believe IdrA was transplanting TL values onto gg.net. IdrA has been warned in the past that if he were to be permanently banned as a poster, he'd be barred from TL run tournaments. Doubtless it follows that being banned from gg.net should stop him participating in their holiday special. I think it's much more speculative to say he was being underhanded.
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Yeah I agree with a lot of other people in this thread in saying that gg.net shot themselves in the foot here. The reason they made it out to be is somewhat petty in my opinion. It could've been acceptable if one of the criteria was manners, but the criteria are mainly achievements and skill, which is the normal association anyways.
It just baffles me that they did the awards like this. The award doesn't really matter anyways and would be forgotten in a week or two, but they still made something like this to question their credibility as an objective SC news site. Kinda ironic in that sense.
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[B]On January 04 2011 01:28 SubtleArt Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 01:22 ondik wrote:
they should've just let it go, invite Idra to Dreamhack and when he's there tell him he can't play because he's banned from gg.net. I seriously can't believe how many people are defending Idra here when it's so clear he did it just to screw someone else' hard work. Congrats, you'd have to have quite a massive ego (or just a smaller number of brain cells) to post something this stupid and make such a ridiculous statement with almost no facts or knowledge to back it up.
The fuck are you talking about? Did you even read idra's statement nazgul posted on first page? Do you know his history ar gg.net? How can you even doubt he didn't do it on purpouse?
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I see a number of coherence issues with the statements of people here, even though the aim of this very blog was to vent disappointment/anger over the way these issues have taken form in the original thread and to help get them cleared up.
Look, people, first off gg.net apparently holds this or similar awards every year and it's not just their award and their rules, these rules also supposedly aren't anything new and not something they came up with because of IdrA.
It's also not like they excluded him because they don't like him or have a grudge with him, but because he's got a history of disrespect towards other people, users at gg.net and staff at gg.net and then casually without remorse cancelled his participation from their event. Anyone who calls gg.net unprofessional over that and not IdrA has awareness issues.
On top of that it's people on TL and people visiting gg.net that had a hard time of just letting it go. The gg.net staff was obviously content with their decision even though they'd have liked to include IdrA in the poll (as well as many other individuals, but you have to bring it down to a number you can work with).
On top of that TL staffers have been among the people criticising gg.net in a less than commendable manner.
I say all of that as someone who used to be a huge IdrA fan even before MicroMedia was formed, because I liked that he argued for what makes sense and didn't pay homage to people's feelings. He was an active user of the gg.net site and argued with people frequently. Looking back, his penalty record is a reflection of that, but I have stopped using that site a long time ago and have no idea what he got those for. Remember Greg Fields saying that he wanted to become a theoretical physicist but decided in favour of progaming then? Theoretical physics because it is precise, there is no room for conflict. Everything can be solved absolutely crystal clear. Hearing that (it was mentioned in a relatively recent interview) made perfect sense after remembering what I respected his activity for. Unfortunately IdrA has an equal disrespect towards anyone he sees as unworthy and doesn't hesitate to express that on almost every opportunity he gets. Doing it to the gg.net staff again was just crossing the line for them, and TL would do the same thing and actually does do the same thing every day - the amount of people being banned from this site for stupidity or lack of civility is simply amazing.
So please, if you criticise something then follow through with it. Otherwise your opinion...just doesn't have any merit. Hypocrisy, emotional decisions, inconsistence, incoherence, arrogance/pride are all enemies of reason.
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On January 04 2011 02:25 enzym wrote:
Look, people, first off gg.net apparently holds this or similar awards every year and it's not just their award and their rules, these rules also supposedly aren't anything new and not something they came up with because of IdrA.
It's also not like they excluded him because they don't like him or have a grudge with him, but because he's got a history of disrespect towards other people, users at gg.net and staff at gg.net and then casually without remorse cancelled his participation from their event. Anyone who calls gg.net unprofessional over that and not IdrA has awareness issues.
On top of that it's people on TL and people visiting gg.net that had a hard time of just letting it go. The gg.net staff was obviously content with their decision even though they'd have liked to include IdrA in the poll (as well as many other individuals, but you have to bring it down to a number you can work with).
On top of that TL staffers have been among the people criticising gg.net in a less than commendable manner.
That may be, but it just seems contradictory to the news post itself. There aren't any remarks about sportsmanship or manners in the descriptions of the nominees or anywhere in that news post. If it was something that was already considered granted, I can understand the omission.
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On January 04 2011 02:25 enzym wrote:
Look, people, first off gg.net apparently holds this or similar awards every year and it's not just their award and their rules, these rules also supposedly aren't anything new and not something they came up with because of IdrA.
It's also not like they excluded him because they don't like him or have a grudge with him, but because he's got a history of disrespect towards other people, users at gg.net and staff at gg.net and then casually without remorse cancelled his participation from their event. Anyone who calls gg.net unprofessional over that and not IdrA has awareness issues.
On top of that it's people on TL and people visiting gg.net that had a hard time of just letting it go. The gg.net staff was obviously content with their decision even though they'd have liked to include IdrA in the poll (as well as many other individuals, but you have to bring it down to a number you can work with).
On top of that TL staffers have been among the people criticising gg.net in a less than commendable manner.
I say all of that as someone who used to be a huge IdrA fan even before MicroMedia was formed, because I liked that he argued for what makes sense and didn't pay homage to people's feelings. He was an active user of the gg.net site and argued with people frequently. Looking back, his penalty record is a reflection of that, but I have stopped using that site a long time ago and have no idea what he got those for. Remember Greg Fields saying that he wanted to become a theoretical physicist but decided in favour of progaming then? Theoretical physics because it is precise, there is no room for conflict. Everything can be solved absolutely crystal clear. Hearing that (it was mentioned in a relatively recent interview) made perfect sense after remembering what I respected his activity for. Unfortunately IdrA has an equal disrespect towards anyone he sees as unworthy and doesn't hesitate to express that on almost every opportunity he gets. Doing it to the gg.net staff again was just crossing the line for them, and TL would do the same thing and actually does do the same thing every day - the amount of people being banned from this site for stupidity or lack of civility is simply amazing.
So please, if you criticise something then follow through with it. Otherwise your opinion...just doesn't have any merit. Hypocrisy, emotional decisions, inconsistence, incoherence, arrogance/pride are all enemies of reason.
I dont think anyone argues that Idra isn't unprofessional because he's a dick to people and organisations, thats not even the topic of the discussion. We're calling gosugamers unprofessional because they exclude Idra from a poll where the goal is to crown the best player of the year, not the most manner guy whos also done decent-player of the year.
And I dont understand how you can say that they didn't exclude him because they didnt like him when you then go on to say he has disrespected people at gg.net, thats kind of a foundation of dislike isnt it?
And no I really don't believe that TL.net would exclude players from a BEST OF 2010 AWARDs poll because of their personal vendettas with x player. Atleast they wouldn't name the poll that and then just exclude a certain player despite his achievements.
I don't mind that they have their own awards, but don't expect people to not express their opinions on a poll that is based on personal relationships instead of achievements.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Perhaps the TL staff (kennigit, zelniq, myself) could have conducted ourselves better in the topic, no in fact we should have conducted ourselves better in the topic. But the whole situation was so ludicrous that were left thinking "are they actually serious?" and we got caught up in the whole emotional drama of the event. So yeah, not TL's brightest day. Such a lapse in professionalism shouldn't happen, for that we apologise and it won't happen again.
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On January 04 2011 02:56 Senx wrote:
We're calling gosugamers unprofessional because they exclude Idra from a poll where the goal is to crown the best player of the year, not the most manner guy whos also done decent-player of the year.
[...]
And no I really don't believe that TL.net would exclude players from a BEST OF 2010 AWARDs poll because of their personal vendettas with x player. Atleast they wouldn't name the poll that and then just exclude a certain player despite his achievements. Again, these awards are held every year and the rules supposedly aren't newly put in place just to be able to exclude IdrA. Maybe it's a misnomer, but then it has been a misnomer for years on end and it'd be a bit strange to come out now and start attacking them for it.
And I dont understand how you can say that they didn't exclude him because they didnt like him when you then go on to say he has disrespected people at gg.net, thats kind of a foundation of dislike isnt it?
No. It's called breaking the rules.
I don't mind that they have their own awards, but don't expect people to not express their opinions on a poll that is based on personal relationships instead of achievements. I don't. In fact I only expect people to form their opinions based on reality, or to be blatantly honest I do not even expect that anymore. Long exposure to humanity with a lot of time to think about things does things like that.
Yo, Plexa. I'm not holding it against you to the point of it requiring an apology - everybody acts in not so thoughtful ways some of the time, and Nazgul saved the rest. It should not be such an important issue. I can't speak for the others, but what bothered me was only the flood of badly informed, hypocritical hate. Criticism itself is good. Without it no problems can ever get solved. But it should at least be based on something, and that something shouldn't be fantasy. -_-
(I feel somewhat guilty and as though I am part of the motivator for you to post that, even though I only responded to the issue because people were blindly attacking one side but failing to look at the other)
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Well whats the reason to vote if the best player is not on the list ?
After all its about the BEST foreigner and not the most mannered one
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People should stop looking at extremes. The poll was not meant to be JUST about game skill. Whilst this was the most important thing, there are factors that can exclude you from participating, such as exceptionally poor mannerism for example. I've had my fair share of IdrA hate handed to me myself, but what he was banned for at the time wasn't because of spite but because of actions he had committed. If you look at the about page of GosuGamers, it states "We believe that in electronical gaming, as in any sport, fair-play, sportsmanship, respect, and good manners are important. Further establishing these values in the online gaming community is the vision of GosuGamers." Possibly horrid analogy: An athlete that uses doping could be the best athlete in the world, but that doesn't mean he is qualified for the poll. There are rules to adhere to, and IdrA broke one to be eligible for this one.
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Osaka27149 Posts
On January 04 2011 00:19 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 23:34 Zerokaiser wrote:
I don't think it really matters anymore. The news got out and ran it's course; few people are going to take this poll as anything more than a European popularity contest.
It's negative publicity for putting personal opinion above objectivity.
What this does is start to cement GosuGamers as *not* being a Starcraft "authority" or hub like Team Liquid, at least in my mind. GosuGamers is being shown more and more to be unprofessional both as its members and as an organization.
I read the replies of teamliquid staffers in the related thread and came to the opposite conclusion. Teamliquid is pretty much uncontested, but that makes it even more despicable to kick the one that is already weaker than you, especially without considering the reasons for his "misbehaviour" fairly. Really only Nazgul hitting the breaks there.
My sentiments exactly.
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I don't know anything about the incident, but I liked your point about the 'waiting to speak' thing. It's one of the biggest things forums suffer from.
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Extrapolation and speculation from limited facts is a toxic venom.
I hope that this scandal doesn't grow any more than it already has. I actually like quite a few features on GosuGamers, and it would be a shame if all this negative publicity snowballs into their unfortunate demise.
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On January 03 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
Im glad they excluded IdrA. Just throughing that out there
I'm sure your opinion matters a lot. Just throughing it out there.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 04 2011 03:50 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 02:56 Senx wrote:
We're calling gosugamers unprofessional because they exclude Idra from a poll where the goal is to crown the best player of the year, not the most manner guy whos also done decent-player of the year.
[...]
And no I really don't believe that TL.net would exclude players from a BEST OF 2010 AWARDs poll because of their personal vendettas with x player. Atleast they wouldn't name the poll that and then just exclude a certain player despite his achievements. Again, these awards are held every year and the rules supposedly aren't newly put in place just to be able to exclude IdrA. Maybe it's a misnomer, but then it has been a misnomer for years on end and it'd be a bit strange to come out now and start attacking them for it. Show nested quote +And I dont understand how you can say that they didn't exclude him because they didnt like him when you then go on to say he has disrespected people at gg.net, thats kind of a foundation of dislike isnt it? No. It's called breaking the rules. Show nested quote +I don't mind that they have their own awards, but don't expect people to not express their opinions on a poll that is based on personal relationships instead of achievements. I don't. In fact I only expect people to form their opinions based on reality, or to be blatantly honest I do not even expect that anymore. Long exposure to humanity with a lot of time to think about things does things like that. Yo, Plexa. I'm not holding it against you to the point of it requiring an apology - everybody acts in not so thoughtful ways some of the time, and Nazgul saved the rest. It should not be such an important issue. I can't speak for the others, but what bothered me was only the flood of badly informed, hypocritical hate. Criticism itself is good. Without it no problems can ever get solved. But it should at least be based on something, and that something shouldn't be fantasy. -_- (I feel somewhat guilty and as though I am part of the motivator for you to post that, even though I only responded to the issue because people were blindly attacking one side but failing to look at the other)
No the apology is definitely warranted. We were out of line and the community deserves better than that.
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ya, it really does
User was temp banned for this post.
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I'm trying desperately to figure out what the actual problem is here. It sounds like everyone's bitching at everyone for something but the core problem is that gg.net is butthurt about Idra not wanting to play for a community he isn't actually a part of?
Forgive me if I'm wrong, this thread is a pile of convoluted responses and the OP isn't exactly straightforward.
In this case it's pretty obvious that gg.net put drama over professionalism, regardless of how professional/unprofessional Idra acted, and that people have every right to complain/discuss that. How that makes TL look if the discussion occurs on its boards - perhaps a little elite, but that's better than banning the discussion.
I'm glad Plexa has acknowledged an error on their part. Too often admins/mods don't have the balls to do that. It says to me that the TL staff holds the community higher than personal image, and that's truly professional.
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On January 04 2011 02:25 enzym wrote:
I see a number of coherence issues with the statements of people here, even though the aim of this very blog was to vent disappointment/anger over the way these issues have taken form in the original thread and to help get them cleared up.
Look, people, first off gg.net apparently holds this or similar awards every year and it's not just their award and their rules, these rules also supposedly aren't anything new and not something they came up with because of IdrA.
It's also not like they excluded him because they don't like him or have a grudge with him, but because he's got a history of disrespect towards other people, users at gg.net and staff at gg.net and then casually without remorse cancelled his participation from their event. Anyone who calls gg.net unprofessional over that and not IdrA has awareness issues.
On top of that it's people on TL and people visiting gg.net that had a hard time of just letting it go. The gg.net staff was obviously content with their decision even though they'd have liked to include IdrA in the poll (as well as many other individuals, but you have to bring it down to a number you can work with).
On top of that TL staffers have been among the people criticising gg.net in a less than commendable manner.
I say all of that as someone who used to be a huge IdrA fan even before MicroMedia was formed, because I liked that he argued for what makes sense and didn't pay homage to people's feelings. He was an active user of the gg.net site and argued with people frequently. Looking back, his penalty record is a reflection of that, but I have stopped using that site a long time ago and have no idea what he got those for. Remember Greg Fields saying that he wanted to become a theoretical physicist but decided in favour of progaming then? Theoretical physics because it is precise, there is no room for conflict. Everything can be solved absolutely crystal clear. Hearing that (it was mentioned in a relatively recent interview) made perfect sense after remembering what I respected his activity for. Unfortunately IdrA has an equal disrespect towards anyone he sees as unworthy and doesn't hesitate to express that on almost every opportunity he gets. Doing it to the gg.net staff again was just crossing the line for them, and TL would do the same thing and actually does do the same thing every day - the amount of people being banned from this site for stupidity or lack of civility is simply amazing.
So please, if you criticise something then follow through with it. Otherwise your opinion...just doesn't have any merit. Hypocrisy, emotional decisions, inconsistence, incoherence, arrogance/pride are all enemies of reason.
What the hell? That's basically the same thing, you just used bigger words for the second sentence. More characters per word doesnt make your arguments any better or yourself appear any smarter, its just more pretentious. And while we're on that....wtf at the last line lol O-o
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There really are 2 sides to every story. I'm trying to stay informed here.
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Australia8532 Posts
Lol IdrA bouncing from temp ban to temp ban.. i thought it was abit strange TL started in on GG; seemed a bit out of character..
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It's not an IdrA post without some red text after!
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There is always only one side to any story - the truth. Anything else is just an excuse to have your pie and eat it, too.
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Idra got some serious PR issues. I wonder when will he realize that his values not only depends on how well he plays starcraft (which by the way, although he is not bad, he is not that great either), but the way he interact with others as well. This has been shown many times already.
GG is at fault too, for behaving similarly to Idra. We have all encountered people who are mean to us in the past; but that doesn't mean we want to sink to their level.
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On January 06 2011 02:23 Sufficiency wrote:
Idra got some serious PR issues. I wonder when will he realize that his values not only depends on how well he plays starcraft (which by the way, although he is not bad, he is not that great either), but the way he interact with others as well. This has been shown many times already.
how has idra's "bm" been at all detrimental to his sc career so far? And to say he's not that great is pretty ridiculous.
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If TL.net was run in similar fashion as GG.net is run, Idra would have been in a similar situation as naniwa.
As it was said before, it's GG.net best player award, not TL.net. Sure, you can disagree and spam there, but i see no reason to protect Idra for what he's done and why they have removed them.
Maybe TL.net should a contest of their own?
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IdrA is my hero. People can call him bm all they want but's he's such an honorable person.
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10387 Posts
On January 04 2011 01:15 Nyxs wrote:
Imagine the TL Power Rank without Jaedong because the admins don't like him, should say enough about the credibility of such ranking.
ohohohoho the Power Rank has always had a healthy dose of bias 
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On January 06 2011 04:19 Joroth wrote:
IdrA is my hero. People can call him bm all they want but's he's such an honorable person.
Brutus is a honourable man?
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On January 06 2011 08:25 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 04:19 Joroth wrote:
IdrA is my hero. People can call him bm all they want but's he's such an honorable person. Brutus is a honourable man?
He said 'but he is an honorable person.' NOT 'Brutus is an honorable person'. Jeez.
KittenLisk wrote : It's not an IdrA post without some red text after!
There are exceptions to this but it is, unfortunately, true in most cases. If only he can be a little more tactful perhaps we could see him in Team Liquid living with our beloved Liquid Players... Oh, wait I think Nazgul had a heart attack. Call 911!
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On January 06 2011 14:40 stalking.d00m wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 08:25 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 06 2011 04:19 Joroth wrote:
IdrA is my hero. People can call him bm all they want but's he's such an honorable person. Brutus is a honourable man? He said 'but he is an honorable person.' NOT 'Brutus is an honorable person'. Jeez.
Pity you didn't read Shakespeare.
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what a rofl thread... so many people need to just chill the fuck out.
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On January 03 2011 20:45 Shana wrote:
Its their award. 'GOSUGAMERS Best Non-Kr Player'
They can in/exclude anyone they want.
Yes they can and all dramatic matters aside, if you exclude someone who may be viewed by the readers as the best KR player, doesn't that make your "award" seem less credible?
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Who cares.. come on just let it go.
He's a great player and all but they don't like him(with a good reason) and didn't choose him.. wouldn't all of you do the same?? I would..
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On February 04 2011 20:20 shell wrote:
Who cares.. come on just let it go.
He's a great player and all but they don't like him(with a good reason) and didn't choose him.. wouldn't all of you do the same?? I would..
They don't like him because he's a better player than they are and he openly says so. He doesn't play fake humble and it, apparently, makes some people's balls shrink to a hazelnut size. Telling the truth takes balls - balls they don't have, because they chose to play safe and get along with people at the price of their integrity, honesty and pride.
They would like to think that they are just as good as he is, and in their little circle of "humble, nice buddies" they are free to think that. Truth is never a threat in their bubble, but IdrA is.
However, they will never admit to themselves of having such emotions so instead they do shit like ban him from stuff. It's an ugly display of emotionalism (by which I mean making excuses to fit emotions instead of remaining objective).
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Regardless of idras behaviour (I mean 100% regardless of idras behaviour, he could have raped and killed the family of all gosugamers membmers) he should be on a poll that is about being the best player of 2010. And it is gosugamers poll and they have the "RIGHT" to do whatever they want obviously. But at the same time as they are using this "right", they are also trying to portray themselves as a starcraft 2 comunity\news site, and if such a site is biased in what is supposed to be a nonbiased article then obviously the community will react.
Team liquid CAN, and they have the "right" to make a poll for best starcraftplayer of all time, and then make a poll that only has nazgul as an option, but obviously this poll would be a joke no matter what reasoning they have that other players are not included.
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EPT
