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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On December 31 2010 11:10 udgnim wrote: playing Super Meat Boy gives me a greater sense of accomplishment than playing Starcraft 2 SMB is one of the few games that have ever made me contemplate suicide. | ||
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kaisr
Canada715 Posts
2b arbiter PvT is probably the sickest strat in the history of rts games | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
On December 31 2010 11:06 Garrl wrote: I've found that the people who do this are the people who want to play SC2 just for cash, instead of playing it for the love and passion of the game. It's the reason I resent most of the BW -> SC2 proes: immediately after the SC2 beta came out, most of them switched. Maybe I just want a game to be actually good before it turns into an esport, instead of "it's an esport so everyone plays it for $". Either way, it hasn't been proven for lasting effect yet, and it'll turn out like WC3 - had huge potential and huge tournaments when it first came out, and then died out. Well you have to make money somehow so I don't resent them for switching, but I do get annoyed when people try to hype a mediocre SC2 game up to the level of BW. | ||
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Vortigan
Denmark306 Posts
For instance; the intensity of BW was both what made it so great and what made it unplayable at times. I loved BW and still do. But i can only play very few games in a row because it is so demanding and intense. i simply have to step away because after a big game (whether u win or lose) I just feel like a wreck. In SCII I can continue playing. Even though i never mass game, I like the fact that i feel I can. With that being said, i'm still feeling concerned with some aspects of SCII like the strength of "stupid" all-ins on small maps. Which are a big part of the map pool. The fact that the game rewards the kinds of rather skill-les "strategies" is not very satisfying. I also agree on the lack of "Danger moments" in SCII which sometimes make the game feel somewhat pre decided and generic. This is not only something u notice while playing, but also as a spectator. So even though i don't really play BW anymore, and really enjoy SCII i actually mostly watch BW as a spectator. It's just more exciting. I hope and have faith in the development of SCII though. here's for hoping  | ||
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WackStr
United States14 Posts
When I won an sc2 game I would think that it was easy or that I didn't have to do much. When I would be winning a broodwar game I would get super excited and happy. Looking at how Flash/Bisu/Jaedong play leaves me in total awe. But looking at the current pro scene of sc2 kinda disgusts me at times honestly. Many people who are recognized as "pro" are just doing dumb plays with all ins etc. True sc2 still needs to be figured out, but with tiny maps and minimum mechanics requirement, you will see people like BitByBit take the spot of people like NaDa. Most sc2 games seem as follows (slightly exaggerated :p ): 1) make units 2) put in one control group 3) fight in the middle (with minor spells (that can be smartly cast) or small positional adjustment as an excuse for micro 4) repeat. There isn't really any sense of timing in the game yet. Not that I'm hating on the game, ofcourse all the automation and multi selection capabilities that blizzard introduced are an improvement, but the game doesn't feel as challenging or rich as brood war does. I do have a feeling that sc2 can be refined to the status of brood war, but that would require a lot of work - maps, units, balance etc. For now, to be honest, sc2 is staying on top by clinging on to the legacy of broodwar. | ||
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mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
Lately there have been moments when I questioned the point of playing SC2, whether I should really spending time and effort getting good at this game and whether I am enjoying it for what it is or just because it was BW sequel. In the last 10 years of playing BW I never ever questioned why I spent so much time on it. The game was just unquestionably good. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
Thanks for this LuckyFool, it was very insightful ! 5/5 | ||
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kaisr
Canada715 Posts
On December 31 2010 10:57 Chef wrote: I don't really understand why people are always saying 'maybe one day sc2 will be as good as bw, so I will keep playing it.' Why not just play/watch the game you like best today? "Wow that game was almost like a BW game!" You know what game was exactly like a BroodWar game? A BroodWar game. I understand the excitement of a new game and figuring out new things, but if your ultimate hope is that the game will be like a game that already exists, it seems kind of pointless. BW isn't just good because of nostalgia, it's good because it's actually a damn good game that's stood the test of time. I'm not saying anything about the validity of sc2. I don't personally like it, so I don't play it. I just want to point out that it seems silly to try and make one game like another, when the game you're trying to make it like already exists. IF you love BroodWar and think it's really fun, you should come back and play it  If you find yourself wondering why SC2 isn't as fun as BroodWar, you should slap yourself and ask why you're playing a game you don't like as much. Likewise, if you find another game more fun than BroodWar, you wouldn't feel it necessary to play BroodWar just cause it's legendary and you're a fool if you don't like it.while i agree with a lot of this, I find the reason I play sc2 instead of bw even though I think BW is a superior game is that the sc2 community is huge and much more active especially the foreign scene. I have 0 friends who play BW now and like 10 who play SC2 actively. Not to mention all the foreign sc2 tournaments and content that is being generated. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On December 31 2010 10:57 Chef wrote: I don't really understand why people are always saying 'maybe one day sc2 will be as good as bw, so I will keep playing it.' Why not just play/watch the game you like best today? "Wow that game was almost like a BW game!" You know what game was exactly like a BroodWar game? A BroodWar game. I understand the excitement of a new game and figuring out new things, but if your ultimate hope is that the game will be like a game that already exists, it seems kind of pointless. BW isn't just good because of nostalgia, it's good because it's actually a damn good game that's stood the test of time. I'm not saying anything about the validity of sc2. I don't personally like it, so I don't play it. I just want to point out that it seems silly to try and make one game like another, when the game you're trying to make it like already exists. IF you love BroodWar and think it's really fun, you should come back and play it If you find yourself wondering why SC2 isn't as fun as BroodWar, you should slap yourself and ask why you're playing a game you don't like as much. Likewise, if you find another game more fun than BroodWar, you wouldn't feel it necessary to play BroodWar just cause it's legendary and you're a fool if you don't like it.Because the game that's best today literally died overnight when sc2 came out. at least from a foreign standpoint. foreign broodwar died instantly when sc2 came out. I've spent plenty of time talking about this in the past. Almost everyone I knew and 90% of the community left broodwar for sc2. All of the big foreign tournaments that were fun to follow, all the colorful players and personalities, all of the foreign professional excitement vanished instantly. there will probably never be another team liquid starleague for broodwar, there will never be broodwar at blizzcon or wcgs as epic as 2003-2008. when sc2 came out foreign broodwar players were presented with two games/options now. On one hand you have broodwar, the game they love which has a server with a couple hundred people still playing and no real tournaments or events with coverage. (there are still korean servers/tournaments, courage but that's all korean and not very inviting for a foreign player) or you have sc2 which might be far less of a game or much less exciting depth wise, but that's where all their friends are and hundreds of thousands players and dozens of streams with thousands watching at almost all times, and massive tournaments and lans, huge coverage and all of the top players around...... If broodwar was completely unaffected by sc2 I would probably have continued playing broodwar and not even looked at sc2 the same way I never even considered or looked at commend and conquer or supreme commander. sc2 was not just another game in terms of how it directly affected broodwar and its community. | ||
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gamecrazy
United States421 Posts
After playing iccup and just having my heart pound like crazy in massive battles during 200/200 macro games in BW, SC2's often "gimmicky" playstyle is not half as exciting. Viva la Brood War. | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
On December 31 2010 10:48 simpy wrote: Would it be worth buying a copy of BW now? It is never too late to start BW | ||
Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
On December 31 2010 10:09 Loser777 wrote: I wish there would be some BW events (Community, LANs, TL-Attack, etc), as I've really been missing those. ICCup has been organizing many events recently, including A-B rank tournaments and ICCup Attack! The problem is that we don't get much exposure because TL doesn't feature our events. I've made posts in the BW General and BW Tournaments forums whenever there's an event, but it seems a lot of people only check those for the Proleague threads and ignore everything else  | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
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blamous
United States377 Posts
I know the game is young, and it may happen again the same way, but so far I don't have that same feeling of getting stuck on the plateau I used to have in BW. In this game I feel like I can still get better, even if certain aspects of my game are a hindrance. That may have to do with things outside of the game itself, like the matchmaking system, and things like that. But so far I have to say as far as experience is concerned, I am liking SC2 a lot better than broodwar. But I'm a nuub, what do I know? | ||
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Ideas
United States8141 Posts
On December 31 2010 12:45 LuckyFool wrote: Because the game that's best today literally died overnight when sc2 came out. at least from a foreign standpoint. foreign broodwar died instantly when sc2 came out. I've spent plenty of time talking about this in the past. Almost everyone I knew and 90% of the community left broodwar for sc2. All of the big foreign tournaments that were fun to follow, all the colorful players and personalities, all of the foreign professional excitement vanished instantly. there will probably never be another team liquid starleague for broodwar, there will never be broodwar at blizzcon or wcgs as epic as 2003-2008. when sc2 came out foreign broodwar players were presented with two games/options now. On one hand you have broodwar, the game they love which has a server with a couple hundred people still playing and no real tournaments or events with coverage. (there are still korean servers/tournaments, courage but that's all korean and not very inviting for a foreign player) or you have sc2 which might be far less of a game or much less exciting depth wise, but that's where all their friends are and hundreds of thousands players and dozens of streams with thousands watching at almost all times, and massive tournaments and lans, huge coverage and all of the top players around...... If broodwar was completely unaffected by sc2 I would probably have continued playing broodwar and not even looked at sc2 the same way I never even considered or looked at commend and conquer or supreme commander. sc2 was not just another game in terms of how it directly affected broodwar and its community. yea I've found it quite disgusting how fast most of the community just left once sc2 came out. like I thought the BW community was one that wouldnt just flock to the new shiny game all the time (I meant it's based on a 12 year old game ffs) but i guess name-value really does mean more to most people than I thought it did. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
You could have not have expressed my sentiments and feelings any better. I mean, l agree with everything you said. I am not a Brood War homer or a SC2 hater either, (I love both games and played them at pretty high levels) but I can't help but feel the same way. In Brood War, it just has that feeling where you have control over everything...it's like chess, like a tactical warfare on the computer with you being in the center of all things that happen. SC2, not quite. It's not the same excitement. | ||
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[Eternal]Phoenix
United States333 Posts
There's no elegance to sc2. There's no connection between units and player. There's no way to look at a player and tell whether he's incredible, or just pretty good. It's all the same. Battles are linear. Fights are so much lower apm than in BW. It makes games not a constant struggle to outdo your opponent, and that's why BW was the best game of all time. | ||
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
It's not that Sc2 is bad, but it isn't at it's full potential yet. If we can see a more interesting combination of units , new different tech paths and a stoppage of all the all-ins.... It's not the best. Hopefully things DO change. And i'm glad to see so many people in this thread feeling the same way I do! BW will not die. And honestly, the campaign sucked in WoL. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On December 31 2010 13:19 Ideas wrote: yea I've found it quite disgusting how fast most of the community just left once sc2 came out. like I thought the BW community was one that wouldnt just flock to the new shiny game all the time (I meant it's based on a 12 year old game ffs) but i guess name-value really does mean more to most people than I thought it did. That's partly because of how hard TL pushed it (throwing BroodWar forums down to the bottom of the page and other not so nice stuff), but to say BroodWar died is a huge misconception. BroodWar didn't die at all, not even for the foreign community. Just because you moved because you wanted to go where the flood of new users and easy competition was, doesn't mean everyone did. People still write about BroodWar, talk about the players amiably, play BroodWar, etc. It just doesn't seem as big because we've got all the new users who will hop onto the next big thing in a year still, so it's making BroodWar look small by comparison. But whenever people talk about SC2 it is usually not very amiably. All the players suck, the games are boring, the streams aren't worth watching, the tourneys are full of people doing uninteresting but very powerful strategies... All I hear from people is complaints about SC2. The only thing people like about SC2 is TLO, and even his presence isn't really felt anymore. Day9 is pushing SC2 and even still people know this game is not meeting their expectations. To say BroodWar died is really insulting and just not true. People are always talking about how much they miss BW, like there's some wall stopping them from coming back. There isn't. Just come back if you like BW more, it's still alive and your BW-related contributions will be well appreciated. I don't know. It is really asinine to hear someone talk about how much they miss BroodWar and then claim that BW is dead lol. You are defeating your own argument and proving BW is still alive in you. Guess what, you've got a thread full of people who agree with you LOL. Play BW and shut up about how much you miss it, ya drama queens. I mean how insane is it that people play SC2 thinking "one day this will be fun" !!? Would you do that for any other game? Why do you play SC2 like it's an investment in your future? That is so bizarre. Only the internet. | ||
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