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Tayko
Netherlands47 Posts
Hope you can help me out with this, im new to sc2 so im not sure what im doing wrong/what i should be doing i play toss this is my keyboard ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/v8Gbl.jpg) this is how i keep my hand positioned on it atm ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/xBFuZ.jpg) yes i know tiny hands xD any tips/advice on proper hand positioning for a protoss player? thanks in advance! | ||
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Zerebreat
Germany32 Posts
http://starfeeder.gameriot.com/blogs/Tasteless/Secrets-of-StarCraft-Pro-Gamers-The-competitive-keyboard | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
*This assumes you use w for warpgates which I know some people tend to not do. | ||
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
There's also the issue of holding your hand support (3 general options): -Wrist bearing weight -Elbow bearing weight -Shoulder bearing weight (not having elbow or wrist touching anything, just your fingers on the keyboard) I'm not sure which of the above is better, or just based on preference (wrist bearing weight seems a lot more difficult to be mobile on the keyboard to reach upper # buttons). | ||
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NeXiLe
Canada262 Posts
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Vz0
Canada378 Posts
On November 04 2010 05:01 NeXiLe wrote: Coming from FPS's, I generally still have my hand on WASD. Number keys are very close by and I still have instant access to warp gates, attack and stop (although I don't use stop all that often.) Ctrl is pressed with the area below my pinkey^^ ya same ^___^ Because of this I will never be able to be pr0w like all the rts pr0s that can use #s 1-10 on their keyboard. I can only use 1-4, 5 is stretching it. In FPS 1 is your main gun. 2 is your side arm. 3 is your nife. 4 is your flashbang/grenade. Rarely do you go pass that.  | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On November 04 2010 05:01 NeXiLe wrote: Coming from FPS's, I generally still have my hand on WASD. Number keys are very close by and I still have instant access to warp gates, attack and stop (although I don't use stop all that often.) Ctrl is pressed with the area below my pinkey^^ W-A-S-D is really really bad. You almost completely waste your ring and middile fingers. You also limit access to the right side of the keyboard (especially 6,7,8) and your fingers 'idle' either with a really steep arch over a,w/s,d or you have to move your wrist to go for the numbers. Your thumb is also hard to idle near/over v,b. WASD positioning is also really bad for some combos, for example 5sd5sd5sd5sd or 4sd (which I'm not a fan of to begin with) for making drones at your hatcheries requires you to hit the # with your index finger then s with your middle then d with your index. With a shifted hand positioning I can hit 5 with index, s with ring, and d with middle for a very fast key combination. It takes literally maybe 15-20 games to adjust reasonably well to a shifted position. I highly recommend you force yourself to do it. And you can even do it vs AI so you don't have to lose ladder points. | ||
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PandaBlunt
United States292 Posts
-PandaBlunt | ||
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MaliciousOne
United States47 Posts
Very good post. I guess the easy way to name this would be E-S-D-F so that it's easier to remember the position? | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On November 04 2010 05:19 MaliciousOne wrote: @ Logo Very good post. I guess the easy way to name this would be E-S-D-F so that it's easier to remember the position? It might be, but it's not really accurate because that implies you keep your fingers over esdf while you really want to be focusing on keeping your fingers over the # keys as much as possible. Sure as zerg (especially) you may have a finger more naturally over s due to how often you press it, but even then it's still an exception more than anything (and it may be more ideal to neutral it on 2). F/E especially are hotkeys that don't deserve a neutral finger for zerg and Terran as they don't even correspond to anything particularly important. Just make sure you understand that while you might call it e-s-d-f that's not actually where you're idling your fingers and you want your wrist and fingers to be in a position where they have their low arch and comfortable rest when held over the # keys so you don't need to move your wrist often. Basically to me for hotkeys and hand positioning I'm trying to solve the following in order... 1. How can I gain access to the hotkeys I need to hit. 2. How can I reduce the amount of distance I need to move my fingers. 3. How can I reduce the amount of movement in my wrist. 4. How can I create the best cycles of fingers so that I don't reuse the same finger too quickly (5sd being all different fingers rather than index-middle-index for example). This is meant to allow time for my finger to get in position on the next key I want to hit with it before I actually need to hit it. 5. How can I position my hand to be accurate in hitting all of the keys. 6. How can I be comfortable while doing all of the above | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
I'm not the best but my mechanics are pretty up par there (around 136 apm in SC 2, uses Terran) Usually the right way to ctrl+1 group is either: use your pinky for both shift+ctrl then index finger on the numbers from 1 to 3. or if you're like flash+jaedong you can use your pinky for both shift+ctrl and I have no idea how they do it. do not use your thumb, in ctrl-grouping 1-2-3. this is a pretty terrible practice since you're limiting your fingers to doing other stuff (see an episode in Day[9] about keyboard mechanics) from here on out, use your index/middle finger for 4 to 0 keys then force yourself/practice this until you get a feel for it. use these two (index/middle/ring) for the usuall "A" "S" "F" "G" "Q" "W" "E" if ever you press from ctrl 8 to 0 usually I use the ring finger for "S" then if you want to ctrl the 8 to 0. use the right ctrl key. Thumb should be pressing on the following keys "V" "Z" "M" "B" "N" "SPACEBAR" etc. anyway that's how things go for a terran user like me  | ||
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PiousMartyr
Canada176 Posts
My advice: keep your fingers curled like you're playing piano, keep your hand high + fingers curled. Hold your hand on the home row to reach everything fairly easily. Sit with fairly good posture and in an ergonomic position. I typically plant my pinky on the A or shift key and my thumb in the middle of the keyboard. Ring/Middle/Index stay over SDFG. It's also nice to keep your pinky on the A key so that when you move your hand back to the middle it ends up in the right place instead of a key over. I hold my pinky on A so I can reach up to the 7 key comfortable without having to move my hand, can stretch to reach 8/9 and only have to move my hand to hit 0. It's also really easy to drop my pinky down to shift and control. For numbers, I usually use 1-2: ring finger 3-4: middle finger 5-0: index finger but if I'm going quickly and my hand moves around, I use whatever finger is closest/most comfortable. Try holding your hand so it can move around the keyboard quickly and do typing speed tests where your left hand has to press everything up to 6YHN or even 7UJM to get it used using more of the keyboard fast. | ||
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Tayko
Netherlands47 Posts
On November 04 2010 05:30 Licmyobelisk wrote: (see an episode in Day[9] about keyboard mechanics) could you pls link me? :3 | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
What I was wondering, how do you produce zealots/templars (Z/T) with protoss? I've gotten used to using the middle finger for W(arpgate) and then the thumb for Z/T because this way I can immediately go back to my main army with the ring finger on 1 afterwards. How do you do it? Does anybody hit Z/T with index? I simply can't handle holding shift with pinky and stretching with the index to Z/T, but would be curious if anybody does it. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Maetl
United States93 Posts
My advice: keep your fingers curled like you're playing piano, keep your hand high + fingers curled. Hold your hand on the home row to reach everything fairly easily. Sit with fairly good posture and in an ergonomic position. This is what I do, and it works great. I will frequently have my hand a bit sideways though (with my fingers resting on/near ZSDT/5) to keep my fingers near 5-9 (hatcheries, then queens), T (mutalisks), D (drones), S (larva), and Z (zerglings). If I am doing more army control than macro, my fingers move up towards the number keys. | ||
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imperator-xy
Germany1366 Posts
if you play you will just learn what fits best to you. you may use the tutorial by tasteless ( http://starfeeder.gameriot.com/blogs/Tasteless/Secrets-of-StarCraft-Pro-Gamers-The-competitive-keyboard ), but if your new you should be playing and having fun instead of thinking how to become better. this isnt meant to be a negative posting. its just one of those things that come naturally from time to time. | ||
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kko
Germany7 Posts
all videos from the past were deleted ( youtube) :/ | ||
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Nausea
Sweden807 Posts
Playing much and finding what fits you best is a good idea, however it's also good to check what good players use. Because you can find yourself in a position where you have been playing for 2 years and you have a less than optimal setup, now all of a sudden it has become a bad habit and a lot harder to get rid of since you are used to it. Just food for thought. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On November 04 2010 06:21 Logo wrote: Your keyboard has a different layout than US keyboards where z is on the bottom left I think. None the less do you have tiny hands or a big keyboard? I have larger than average hands so shift->y (same spot as your z) is not much of a stretch at all. For reference I can hit left shift+o with my pinky and index finger. Ah, sorry for confusion, yes obviously Z/Y is switched for me - nice catch btw, haven't thought of that Dunno if I have a big keyboard but I have definitely small hands (pain for piano-playing as well), I can't even hit left shift + i let alone o with pinky and index; left shift + u is the best I can do and therefore left shift + Z/Y "feels not right" Before anybody states the obvious: of course nobody should switch away from something he is very comfortable with...I was just asking out of pure interest. EDIT: Did anybody of you who came from other RTS also have problems with the protoss warpgate macro? Reason: shift; I have NEVER used shift when producing units, I have always queued my buildings to something like 5-0 and produce with 5+hotkey, 6+hotkey etc. where my left hand slided to the middle....now with warpgate tech I'm FORCED to also hold shift with the pinky for more efficiency....tbh I felt like a complete RTS noob at my first tries. | ||
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Tayko
Netherlands47 Posts
On November 04 2010 08:02 sleepingdog wrote: Ah, sorry for confusion, yes obviously Z/Y is switched for me - nice catch btw, haven't thought of that Dunno if I have a big keyboard but I have definitely small hands (pain for piano-playing as well), I can't even hit left shift + i let alone o with pinky and index; left shift + u is the best I can do and therefore left shift + Z/Y "feels not right" Before anybody states the obvious: of course nobody should switch away from something he is very comfortable with...I was just asking out of pure interest. i also cant even hit left shift + i, my keyboard isnt big my hands are just kinda small, kinda rly small xD i seem to keep my ring middle and index on 123 and use thumb for ctrl Z/S and pinky on shift | ||
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-CheekyDuck-
Australia398 Posts
to practise i type with just the left hand daily. i also practise hotkeys in a word document. i.e 3is sentrys and 2 is stalkers, example: 3f3g3f3g3f3g3f3g3f3g3f3g3f3g3f3g 2b2b2b2b22b2b2b2b2b2b2b2b2b22b anyway over time it will just be automatic to what will work best for you naturally. hope that helps ; ) | ||
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Cyclon
United States99 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
You have your hotkey stuff on 1-6 while unit abilities are on the lowest row and in awkward spots like z,x,c. For zerg there's also overlap for zerg with hatchery stuff and larva units. So you can quite easily research hatchery stuff when you want to build units but have 0 larva. Just do something like 1z and see how awkward/far it is compared to 1b (blink). | ||
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Seide
United States831 Posts
On November 04 2010 11:38 Logo wrote: Grid layout is kinda bad. You have your hotkey stuff on 1-6 while unit abilities are on the lowest row and in awkward spots like z,x,c. For zerg there's also overlap for zerg with hatchery stuff and larva units. So you can quite easily research hatchery stuff when you want to build units but have 0 larva. Just do something like 1z and see how awkward/far it is compared to 1b (blink). I like grid for terran, nice to have building on 1-4 and units on 5, 6. Easy access to attack move and hold, also easy acess to all unit hotkeys. z, x, c arent that out of the way, you are pretty used to hitting them if you are a WoW player. For Zerg and Protoss though, absolutely hate grid hotkeys for different reasons. Zerg for overlap, and for protoss their standard hotkeys seem more intuitive to me. | ||
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Tuneful
United States327 Posts
I used this podcast as a guide, it's so good. Ask yourself: how can you get to the hotkeys you need to execute your plan quickly and comfortably? Then, try different things and adjust accordingly. | ||
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Tayko
Netherlands47 Posts
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Slakkoo
Sweden1119 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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crw
Canada70 Posts
On November 04 2010 05:03 Vz0 wrote: ya same ^___^ Because of this I will never be able to be pr0w like all the rts pr0s that can use #s 1-10 on their keyboard. I can only use 1-4, 5 is stretching it. In FPS 1 is your main gun. 2 is your side arm. 3 is your nife. 4 is your flashbang/grenade. Rarely do you go pass that. i'm from an FPS, and it takes about 1 day or 2 to get used to using more than 5 on a keyboard. 5 is my hatchery, every queen i get afterwards is 6,7,8,9,0 (most i've had is that many queen teams). u're just lazy  ps. in FPS games you use E for lightning gun, q for Railgun. 1 2 3 4 are just normal, F is rocket launcher... yuh, i'm talking about the only real FPS game ever - Quake. | ||
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EsX_Raptor
United States2801 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2190/snapshot20080706rm5.jpg) | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
On November 10 2010 07:42 EsX_Raptor wrote: I can't believe this picture is still out there lol + Show Spoiler + Lol did you find this from SFW funny pictures :D ?! Made my day. + Show Spoiler + I'm expecting this is not normal position for hand- at all! | ||
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TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On November 04 2010 11:38 Logo wrote: Grid layout is kinda bad. You have your hotkey stuff on 1-6 while unit abilities are on the lowest row and in awkward spots like z,x,c. For zerg there's also overlap for zerg with hatchery stuff and larva units. So you can quite easily research hatchery stuff when you want to build units but have 0 larva. Just do something like 1z and see how awkward/far it is compared to 1b (blink). Yes, grid is pretty bad, even if you ignore the attack=t problem (too many years of rts gaming using a to attack for me to ever get used to grid). I'm hoping and praying that when the implement customizable keys, that they also let you move stuff around on the grid, so you can set up a grid layout that has better positions. | ||
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