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Would you consider this sentence correct? - Page 2

Blogs > Whole
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dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
September 30 2010 21:23 GMT
#21
English is a bad language and unfortunately for you she is correct.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
drag_
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
England425 Posts
September 30 2010 21:24 GMT
#22
Having taken a few SAT's it's pretty clear the first sentence is grammatically incorrect, but we can still understand its meaning. The two 'they' seem to be referring to the same group of people making it unclear that europeans is changing to Filipinos.
Celesti
Profile Joined April 2010
69 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-30 21:27:04
September 30 2010 21:26 GMT
#23
Teacher is right, although you would probably say "In Europe people played with yo-yos, however in the Philippines they would normally use them for more serious purposes"

Up to you how you phrase it but the original sentence sounds 'wrong' so to speak, you can alter it a number of ways to make it sound better.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-30 21:34:19
September 30 2010 21:27 GMT
#24
The only pronoun in that sentence is "them" which is used correctly. "They" isn't always a pronoun and it's clearly not being used as a pronoun here.

edit: dictionary.com's second definition of they:
people in general: They say he's rich.


So anyone saying to replace "they" with "people" or something similar is just adjusting the sentence based on their preferences, not on grammar. They're synonyms.

edit2: I bet your teacher would have me change "their preferences" to "his or her preferences" too. F that.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
QuothTheRaven
Profile Joined December 2008
United States5524 Posts
September 30 2010 21:31 GMT
#25
On October 01 2010 06:01 Jibba wrote:
Grammar is important. If you ever take the LSATs, you'll see how assumptions like that are a problem.

Not just LSATs--the (relatively) new SAT writing portion has an entire section devoted to correcting sentence grammar, and ambiguous pronouns show up on quite a few of the questions.
. . . nevermore
Celesti
Profile Joined April 2010
69 Posts
September 30 2010 21:38 GMT
#26
On October 01 2010 06:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
The only pronoun in that sentence is "them" which is used correctly. "They" isn't always a pronoun and it's clearly not being used as a pronoun here.

edit: dictionary.com's second definition of they:
Show nested quote +
people in general: They say he's rich.


So anyone saying to replace "they" with "people" or something similar is just adjusting the sentence based on their preferences, not on grammar. They're synonyms.

edit2: I bet your teacher would have me change "their preferences" to "his or her preferences" too. F that.


Very true, what I wrote would be similar to how I would say the sentence, although trying to adapt that bastardised original sentence to speech is fundamentally flawed.
Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
September 30 2010 21:47 GMT
#27
On October 01 2010 06:38 Celesti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2010 06:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
The only pronoun in that sentence is "them" which is used correctly. "They" isn't always a pronoun and it's clearly not being used as a pronoun here.

edit: dictionary.com's second definition of they:
people in general: They say he's rich.


So anyone saying to replace "they" with "people" or something similar is just adjusting the sentence based on their preferences, not on grammar. They're synonyms.

edit2: I bet your teacher would have me change "their preferences" to "his or her preferences" too. F that.


Very true, what I wrote would be similar to how I would say the sentence, although trying to adapt that bastardised original sentence to speech is fundamentally flawed.


The problem is, what's acceptable in speech and general writing isn't always correct for standardised tests. It's one thing that's always annoyed me because I've always though 'he or she' was a sloppy looking construct.
No I'm never serious.
Celesti
Profile Joined April 2010
69 Posts
September 30 2010 22:03 GMT
#28
On October 01 2010 06:47 Nytefish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2010 06:38 Celesti wrote:
On October 01 2010 06:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
The only pronoun in that sentence is "them" which is used correctly. "They" isn't always a pronoun and it's clearly not being used as a pronoun here.

edit: dictionary.com's second definition of they:
people in general: They say he's rich.


So anyone saying to replace "they" with "people" or something similar is just adjusting the sentence based on their preferences, not on grammar. They're synonyms.

edit2: I bet your teacher would have me change "their preferences" to "his or her preferences" too. F that.


Very true, what I wrote would be similar to how I would say the sentence, although trying to adapt that bastardised original sentence to speech is fundamentally flawed.


The problem is, what's acceptable in speech and general writing isn't always correct for standardised tests. It's one thing that's always annoyed me because I've always though 'he or she' was a sloppy looking construct.


Yep, the original sentence is awful for written English and no one would ever construct a sentence like that. Spoken English can help in this regard as this sentence 'sounds' wrong and normally what sounds wrong in our minds whilst reading is grammatically incorrect. Well atleast for me.
Diuqil
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States307 Posts
September 30 2010 22:07 GMT
#29
That's actually not correct, I learned from a recent blog I made as to why its wrong.
Seide
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States831 Posts
September 30 2010 22:14 GMT
#30
You are mad at your teacher being elitist for teaching you proper gramamr like she is paid to?

The general public maybe not care about the grammar mistake, but a mistake is a mistake and should be pointed out.
One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
popnfreshspk
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States93 Posts
September 30 2010 22:22 GMT
#31
I hate that "his or her" bs. Can't English be not PC and just use the masculine pronoun to refer to the crowd like the other languages?
hey you
hofodomo
Profile Joined March 2010
United States257 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-30 22:27:23
September 30 2010 22:25 GMT
#32
Like everyone said, while the sentence is fine for everyday usage, it can still be improved. Though what concerns me the most is that while OP derides the teacher for being elitist (read: doing her job), the OP thinks it's ok to not care simply because he/she lives in a more secluded part of the States.

I'm certain the OP can still pursue his/her desires in life just fine, but writing well is a good skill to keep.

On October 01 2010 07:22 popnfreshspk wrote:
I hate that "his or her" bs. Can't English be not PC and just use the masculine pronoun to refer to the crowd like the other languages?


I do too, though that's more due to the scholars (and not so scholarly ones) that insist on PC, rather than English itself.
Smoke weed ev'ry day.
Asdkmoga
Profile Joined May 2010
United States496 Posts
September 30 2010 22:52 GMT
#33
would the first one imply that all people in Europe take it seriously? and the second imply only Europeans in Europe take it serious, and not any foreigners or natives?
idk, im probably wrong
"Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action and over 600 is clearly the work of an ancient Sumerian demon or some shit."
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-30 23:00:44
September 30 2010 22:59 GMT
#34
The original sentence implies the meaning of they, so I don't think it's a major grammatical error. However, if you ever get into college level English, you'll quickly find that writing a sentence like this will get you in trouble pretty fast. Using the word "they" without defining it is almost always a bad idea. On that note... other bad words to use in a formal paper are "there really are a lot of very good/just people."
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
EchOne
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States2906 Posts
September 30 2010 23:13 GMT
#35
The first sentence is fine, but its meaning may not be as intended. It does not offer the same interpretation range as the second sentence. I wouldn't label either as better or worse, but the second is definitely more specific.

English grammar is often silly, but command of it is important in accurate, professional written communication, especially with non-native speakers who may not hold the same linguistic assumptions as a native speaker.

I don't know the circumstances of your education, but if you wish to enlighten your teacher, I recommend doing so in private, with well-prepared reasoning and evidence, and hopefully with good intentions.
面白くない世の中, 面白くすればいいさ
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
October 01 2010 01:14 GMT
#36
Technically its incorrect.

Pronouns are used as a placeholder for a previously used noun.

In this sentence you can't say "they" because you have not previously specified the noun "Europeans".

Pretty petty, but she technically is right. But yeah man, in casual speech, noone gives a shit.
n3mo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States298 Posts
October 01 2010 01:19 GMT
#37
its ambiguous - you're basically saying in the first case that the yoyos are using 'them' for more serious purposes, where 'them' is unknown.

of course we all know what you're talking about, but just because we can fix your mistake in our mind does not mean that its correct. and if you really refuse to learn this, you'll just score a hundred points less on the SAT, nbd.
My hatred for [banelings] is way greater than my compassion
NobleDog
Profile Joined May 2010
United States65 Posts
October 01 2010 01:26 GMT
#38
The first sentence is fine, not incorrect. Call it casual use of language.

The meaning is clear.

If you were to send a letter to the WSJ or the Pope then I'd recommend a more formal usage.

The teacher should just teach it that way: Formal and informal.

(Prescriptive grammar vs. descriptive grammar. Follow the pronounced rules vs. discover how usage defines the rules.)
Live free or die
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-01 01:40:58
October 01 2010 01:37 GMT
#39
The problem is the context of the sentence. If the sentence is spoken, it's completely fine. If it's for a casual assignment, especially in a non-humanity class (?), the sentence would be borderline acceptable. For any scholarly or formal essays or other writing pieces, the second sentence would be imperative. Formal writing may not contain any ambiguity, which is what the first sentence unfortunately lends. Your teacher is not carping on you for no reason: she is trying to ensure you utilize the correct grammar when it counts. Rather than calling her "obnoxious and elitist," you should (even if you do it reluctantly) accept the fact that she showed you how to correct a very subtle grammatical mistake.

EDIT: The reason the sentence is ambiguous is because the pronoun "they" in the sentence could share an antecedent from the previous sentence. More correct would be to say "people" instead of "they," as someone above pointed out.
Translator:3
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-01 02:04:29
October 01 2010 02:00 GMT
#40
On October 01 2010 07:14 Seide wrote:
You are mad at your teacher being elitist for teaching you proper gramamr like she is paid to?


Except she berates anyone who talks incorrectly, and it gets pretty annoying after a few months of her complaining about the same shit. I won't go into every detail because that is not the point of the blog.

edit:

Conclusion:
It is technically incorrect, and I shouldn't use it at school. Everywhere else, it is fine.
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