• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:36
CET 05:36
KST 13:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy4ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool8Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win22026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains
Tourneys
2026 KungFu Cup Announcement [GSL CK] #2: Team Classic vs. Team Solar [GSL CK] #1: Team Maru vs. Team herO RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever
Brood War
General
MLB The Show 26 Stubs U4N: TL.net Community ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Season 22 Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Mexico's Drug War Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6816 users

Ladder experience

Blogs > Zozo
Post a Reply
Zozo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil2579 Posts
July 10 2010 00:29 GMT
#1
Before hitting my fellow TLer’s with the wall of text I would like to warn you that I’m gonna whine and vent my frustrations, but I also want to see if some people feel/felt the same way (plus my english ain’t happy).

I was never a great player, but I’m decent. Nothing more then decent.

So the SC2 beta came back: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Hit search button, get a match. I’m Terran and my enemy Zerg, we are fighting in metalopolis. Scout after depot and see a 6 pool, finish wall, win.

Hit search button again, get another TvZ, scout baneling bust, finish wall with rax+fac and win.

Awesome battle reports so far right? Well let me say it happened in other 12 matches and I’m 14-1 so far. I defended 14 cheeses and got raped in a macro game, which led me to my first blog post ever.

It just felt like I took 20 steps back from the last time playing the game, I was schooled beginning to end by this protoss player, it wasn’t even close. I can’t help myself from thinking that winning against 6reaper, 6pool, 2gate proxy and so on was a waste of time, and to top that, I wasn’t having fun.

I enjoyed ladder so much in phase 1, I even got to play against CauthonLuck once (I got demolished, obviously). What happened? Is it just the fact that I have to climb to diamond? Bad luck? People not comfortable with the game? People that get cheesed wanna cheese too?

How can I measure my skill if winning against these guys makes me think the (awesome) match making takes me as a “bad player” and when facing a strong guy it felt like D- vs B?

Is it a mistake to go like: “Oh, I defended the baneling bust, just gonna 2 port banshee now and win”? Should I force these games to go in a different direction? Is it my fault for leaning towards these counters to finish off the deal?

I love playing with my friends, but mostly 2x2 and 3x3, they are FPS players, so we just have fun. They are in the bronze league so practicing 1x1 gets old and it’s not enjoyable for either of us. I also tried the Ppartner thread once, but I lacked the will to play the same matchup 6 times in a row.

Now I ask: Do you enjoy laddering? How do you feel when you defend a cheese? Is ladder the right place to learn the game? Does it also feel weird to you to get more satisfaction from a loss then from an easy win?

Don’t get me wrong, I got into starcraft because of bunker rushes (hi Boxer). The feeling of making your first supply depot knowing you could be under attack in a few seconds is great, but for me, it’s nothing similar to a perfectly timed scan or a double nuke on the warpgate line.

There, I feel better now. I would just like to add that this was probably the least rewarding winning streak of my life, and I’m actually happy it ended.


EGM guides me
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
July 10 2010 00:36 GMT
#2
It'll correct itself over time. Right now the ladder is really compressed and everyone has low wins. A lot of people are going to be trying cheese. A good many of them are probably lower tier players who haven't fallen through to the lower rankings yet.

I've kinda noticed this trend every reset. Your first dozen or so games seem likely to have a fair bit of cheese as you climb past the people who can't really play well and think their cheese wins are going to take them to the top. As the ladder matures and becomes stable you'll outgrow that mid level where people cheese a lot.

As for losing a macro based game, you're probably rusty from the downtime.

Of course a practice partner > ladder, but ladder still seems like good practice if you're not a high tier player.
Logo
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
July 10 2010 00:44 GMT
#3
It's bad luck. I've been 6rax repeared once and 6 pooled once out of 40 games. Welcome shitty allins if you can stop them 100% of the time and laugh at how bad your opponent is.

Yup I love laddering and trying to go as high as possible. Love defending cheese because it makes your opponent realize how bad they are.
wanderer
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States641 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-10 01:08:48
July 10 2010 01:06 GMT
#4
I try to keep things interesting.

Example:

One time I played against a guy who was new to the game (he wasn't lying when he said it, as I found out later), so after he gg'd I ran in with my SCVs and move commanded all of my troops to circle his Nexus. This went on for a few minutes as I waited for him to leave.

Little did I know that he had been massing void rays in a proxy in the most random far away spot the entire time, which is why his 1base didnt have many troops. Me and my 2 base + gold expo got demolished.



I recommend trying to use crazy strategies when you know that you are way the fuck ahead. For example I watched a stream of Gretorp going mass BCs against a Z who 6pooled. It was funny.

Another example of a funny one is when I watched KawaiiRice take all the expos in a 3v3 on Arakan or whatever its called. He got obscene amounts of cash and he just massed Factories and Thors out the ass and then ran in and ruined everyone's shit.



... so in short, take those opportunities to practice macro!
Fuck you, I have a degree in mathematics and I speak 12 languages. (I called the World Cup final in 2008 btw)
The_Pacifist
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States540 Posts
July 10 2010 01:11 GMT
#5
Yeah, ladder resets tend to welcome plenty of cheese players who see the reset as "Oh, boy! This is it! A shortcut chance to make it into that shiny Diamond league! I don't have the skill to actually work my way up so if I just cheese these next few placement games..."

Give it some time. It'll take a while (expect a reset and more cheese after the game release too), but things will stabilize and playing sc2 will be cotton candy and rainbows again.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #18
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 217
Nina 147
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5428
GuemChi 5339
PianO 216
Snow 108
ZergMaN 76
Bale 73
Noble 30
zelot 22
Icarus 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever859
NeuroSwarm154
LuMiX2
League of Legends
JimRising 734
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1620
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox882
C9.Mang0423
Mew2King82
Other Games
summit1g8453
WinterStarcraft376
Sick131
Maynarde127
Trikslyr34
Temp016
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1466
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream222
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH133
• davetesta25
• practicex 7
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 56
• Azhi_Dahaki12
• UltrA 1
• Diggity1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1615
• Rush885
• Stunt417
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
5h 24m
KCM Race Survival
5h 24m
WardiTV Team League
7h 24m
OSC
8h 24m
Replay Cast
19h 24m
KCM Race Survival
1d 5h
WardiTV Team League
1d 7h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 22h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs Zoun
Cure vs ByuN
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs MaxPax
Rogue vs TriGGeR
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Sharp vs Scan
Rain vs Mong
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-18
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.