• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:06
CEST 23:06
KST 06:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners6Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)8[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th153Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser The Korean Terminology Thread
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streaming Impacts Game P…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7390 users

Ladder experience

Blogs > Zozo
Post a Reply
Zozo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil2579 Posts
July 10 2010 00:29 GMT
#1
Before hitting my fellow TLer’s with the wall of text I would like to warn you that I’m gonna whine and vent my frustrations, but I also want to see if some people feel/felt the same way (plus my english ain’t happy).

I was never a great player, but I’m decent. Nothing more then decent.

So the SC2 beta came back: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Hit search button, get a match. I’m Terran and my enemy Zerg, we are fighting in metalopolis. Scout after depot and see a 6 pool, finish wall, win.

Hit search button again, get another TvZ, scout baneling bust, finish wall with rax+fac and win.

Awesome battle reports so far right? Well let me say it happened in other 12 matches and I’m 14-1 so far. I defended 14 cheeses and got raped in a macro game, which led me to my first blog post ever.

It just felt like I took 20 steps back from the last time playing the game, I was schooled beginning to end by this protoss player, it wasn’t even close. I can’t help myself from thinking that winning against 6reaper, 6pool, 2gate proxy and so on was a waste of time, and to top that, I wasn’t having fun.

I enjoyed ladder so much in phase 1, I even got to play against CauthonLuck once (I got demolished, obviously). What happened? Is it just the fact that I have to climb to diamond? Bad luck? People not comfortable with the game? People that get cheesed wanna cheese too?

How can I measure my skill if winning against these guys makes me think the (awesome) match making takes me as a “bad player” and when facing a strong guy it felt like D- vs B?

Is it a mistake to go like: “Oh, I defended the baneling bust, just gonna 2 port banshee now and win”? Should I force these games to go in a different direction? Is it my fault for leaning towards these counters to finish off the deal?

I love playing with my friends, but mostly 2x2 and 3x3, they are FPS players, so we just have fun. They are in the bronze league so practicing 1x1 gets old and it’s not enjoyable for either of us. I also tried the Ppartner thread once, but I lacked the will to play the same matchup 6 times in a row.

Now I ask: Do you enjoy laddering? How do you feel when you defend a cheese? Is ladder the right place to learn the game? Does it also feel weird to you to get more satisfaction from a loss then from an easy win?

Don’t get me wrong, I got into starcraft because of bunker rushes (hi Boxer). The feeling of making your first supply depot knowing you could be under attack in a few seconds is great, but for me, it’s nothing similar to a perfectly timed scan or a double nuke on the warpgate line.

There, I feel better now. I would just like to add that this was probably the least rewarding winning streak of my life, and I’m actually happy it ended.


EGM guides me
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
July 10 2010 00:36 GMT
#2
It'll correct itself over time. Right now the ladder is really compressed and everyone has low wins. A lot of people are going to be trying cheese. A good many of them are probably lower tier players who haven't fallen through to the lower rankings yet.

I've kinda noticed this trend every reset. Your first dozen or so games seem likely to have a fair bit of cheese as you climb past the people who can't really play well and think their cheese wins are going to take them to the top. As the ladder matures and becomes stable you'll outgrow that mid level where people cheese a lot.

As for losing a macro based game, you're probably rusty from the downtime.

Of course a practice partner > ladder, but ladder still seems like good practice if you're not a high tier player.
Logo
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
July 10 2010 00:44 GMT
#3
It's bad luck. I've been 6rax repeared once and 6 pooled once out of 40 games. Welcome shitty allins if you can stop them 100% of the time and laugh at how bad your opponent is.

Yup I love laddering and trying to go as high as possible. Love defending cheese because it makes your opponent realize how bad they are.
wanderer
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States641 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-10 01:08:48
July 10 2010 01:06 GMT
#4
I try to keep things interesting.

Example:

One time I played against a guy who was new to the game (he wasn't lying when he said it, as I found out later), so after he gg'd I ran in with my SCVs and move commanded all of my troops to circle his Nexus. This went on for a few minutes as I waited for him to leave.

Little did I know that he had been massing void rays in a proxy in the most random far away spot the entire time, which is why his 1base didnt have many troops. Me and my 2 base + gold expo got demolished.



I recommend trying to use crazy strategies when you know that you are way the fuck ahead. For example I watched a stream of Gretorp going mass BCs against a Z who 6pooled. It was funny.

Another example of a funny one is when I watched KawaiiRice take all the expos in a 3v3 on Arakan or whatever its called. He got obscene amounts of cash and he just massed Factories and Thors out the ass and then ran in and ruined everyone's shit.



... so in short, take those opportunities to practice macro!
Fuck you, I have a degree in mathematics and I speak 12 languages. (I called the World Cup final in 2008 btw)
The_Pacifist
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States540 Posts
July 10 2010 01:11 GMT
#5
Yeah, ladder resets tend to welcome plenty of cheese players who see the reset as "Oh, boy! This is it! A shortcut chance to make it into that shiny Diamond league! I don't have the skill to actually work my way up so if I just cheese these next few placement games..."

Give it some time. It'll take a while (expect a reset and more cheese after the game release too), but things will stabilize and playing sc2 will be cotton candy and rainbows again.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
19:00
Group Stage - Day 1
eOnzErG vs Mihu
Messiah vs XuanXuan
Jaystar vs TerrOr
Dewalt vs Bonyth
eOnzErG vs XuanXuan
Mihu vs TerrOr
Messiah vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O290
LiquipediaDiscussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeague wk 2 PTB vs POG
Liquipedia
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season Finals: Group Stage 2
RotterdaM262
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 595
JuggernautJason108
BRAT_OK 50
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 4260
ZZZero.O 290
Hyun 53
Dota 2
LuMiX0
League of Legends
Doublelift3548
JimRising 258
Counter-Strike
fl0m9731
Coldzera 901
byalli850
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu366
Other Games
summit1g7670
Grubby3852
Mlord897
RotterdaM262
crisheroes233
Trikslyr36
Tefel16
Livibee10
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1555
gamesdonequick810
BasetradeTV177
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur159
• tFFMrPink 13
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
12h 54m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
17h 54m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
21h 54m
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
1d 13h
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
OSC
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.