• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:57
CEST 02:57
KST 09:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)14ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo23Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) SC2 Planner - The StarCraft II Build Planner [TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th HomeStory Cup In Early July
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ STARCRAFT MOVIE - Last Night at the Command center BW General Discussion Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming! Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 16410 users

Ladder experience

Blogs > Zozo
Post a Reply
Zozo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil2579 Posts
July 10 2010 00:29 GMT
#1
Before hitting my fellow TLer’s with the wall of text I would like to warn you that I’m gonna whine and vent my frustrations, but I also want to see if some people feel/felt the same way (plus my english ain’t happy).

I was never a great player, but I’m decent. Nothing more then decent.

So the SC2 beta came back: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Hit search button, get a match. I’m Terran and my enemy Zerg, we are fighting in metalopolis. Scout after depot and see a 6 pool, finish wall, win.

Hit search button again, get another TvZ, scout baneling bust, finish wall with rax+fac and win.

Awesome battle reports so far right? Well let me say it happened in other 12 matches and I’m 14-1 so far. I defended 14 cheeses and got raped in a macro game, which led me to my first blog post ever.

It just felt like I took 20 steps back from the last time playing the game, I was schooled beginning to end by this protoss player, it wasn’t even close. I can’t help myself from thinking that winning against 6reaper, 6pool, 2gate proxy and so on was a waste of time, and to top that, I wasn’t having fun.

I enjoyed ladder so much in phase 1, I even got to play against CauthonLuck once (I got demolished, obviously). What happened? Is it just the fact that I have to climb to diamond? Bad luck? People not comfortable with the game? People that get cheesed wanna cheese too?

How can I measure my skill if winning against these guys makes me think the (awesome) match making takes me as a “bad player” and when facing a strong guy it felt like D- vs B?

Is it a mistake to go like: “Oh, I defended the baneling bust, just gonna 2 port banshee now and win”? Should I force these games to go in a different direction? Is it my fault for leaning towards these counters to finish off the deal?

I love playing with my friends, but mostly 2x2 and 3x3, they are FPS players, so we just have fun. They are in the bronze league so practicing 1x1 gets old and it’s not enjoyable for either of us. I also tried the Ppartner thread once, but I lacked the will to play the same matchup 6 times in a row.

Now I ask: Do you enjoy laddering? How do you feel when you defend a cheese? Is ladder the right place to learn the game? Does it also feel weird to you to get more satisfaction from a loss then from an easy win?

Don’t get me wrong, I got into starcraft because of bunker rushes (hi Boxer). The feeling of making your first supply depot knowing you could be under attack in a few seconds is great, but for me, it’s nothing similar to a perfectly timed scan or a double nuke on the warpgate line.

There, I feel better now. I would just like to add that this was probably the least rewarding winning streak of my life, and I’m actually happy it ended.


EGM guides me
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
July 10 2010 00:36 GMT
#2
It'll correct itself over time. Right now the ladder is really compressed and everyone has low wins. A lot of people are going to be trying cheese. A good many of them are probably lower tier players who haven't fallen through to the lower rankings yet.

I've kinda noticed this trend every reset. Your first dozen or so games seem likely to have a fair bit of cheese as you climb past the people who can't really play well and think their cheese wins are going to take them to the top. As the ladder matures and becomes stable you'll outgrow that mid level where people cheese a lot.

As for losing a macro based game, you're probably rusty from the downtime.

Of course a practice partner > ladder, but ladder still seems like good practice if you're not a high tier player.
Logo
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
July 10 2010 00:44 GMT
#3
It's bad luck. I've been 6rax repeared once and 6 pooled once out of 40 games. Welcome shitty allins if you can stop them 100% of the time and laugh at how bad your opponent is.

Yup I love laddering and trying to go as high as possible. Love defending cheese because it makes your opponent realize how bad they are.
wanderer
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States641 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-10 01:08:48
July 10 2010 01:06 GMT
#4
I try to keep things interesting.

Example:

One time I played against a guy who was new to the game (he wasn't lying when he said it, as I found out later), so after he gg'd I ran in with my SCVs and move commanded all of my troops to circle his Nexus. This went on for a few minutes as I waited for him to leave.

Little did I know that he had been massing void rays in a proxy in the most random far away spot the entire time, which is why his 1base didnt have many troops. Me and my 2 base + gold expo got demolished.



I recommend trying to use crazy strategies when you know that you are way the fuck ahead. For example I watched a stream of Gretorp going mass BCs against a Z who 6pooled. It was funny.

Another example of a funny one is when I watched KawaiiRice take all the expos in a 3v3 on Arakan or whatever its called. He got obscene amounts of cash and he just massed Factories and Thors out the ass and then ran in and ruined everyone's shit.



... so in short, take those opportunities to practice macro!
Fuck you, I have a degree in mathematics and I speak 12 languages. (I called the World Cup final in 2008 btw)
The_Pacifist
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States540 Posts
July 10 2010 01:11 GMT
#5
Yeah, ladder resets tend to welcome plenty of cheese players who see the reset as "Oh, boy! This is it! A shortcut chance to make it into that shiny Diamond league! I don't have the skill to actually work my way up so if I just cheese these next few placement games..."

Give it some time. It'll take a while (expect a reset and more cheese after the game release too), but things will stabilize and playing sc2 will be cotton candy and rainbows again.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft898
NeuroSwarm 178
ProTech152
Nina 108
RuFF_SC2 86
WinterStarcraft44
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 3259
Rain 3044
Shuttle 587
Artosis 509
Leta 35
Dota 2
capcasts304
canceldota154
League of Legends
JimRising 445
Counter-Strike
summit1g9437
Other Games
C9.Mang0612
shahzam562
Maynarde125
UpATreeSC85
Trikslyr63
Livibee32
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1007
BasetradeTV188
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 109
• HeavenSC 33
• davetesta24
• Mapu5
• mYiSmile14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra682
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
9h 4m
The PondCast
1d 9h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
OSC
2 days
Douyu Cup 2020
3 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.