• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:59
CET 23:59
KST 07:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
[D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign 🇺🇦 Ukrainian StarCraft:BroodWar community reborn
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 14343 users

Ladder experience

Blogs > Zozo
Post a Reply
Zozo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil2579 Posts
July 10 2010 00:29 GMT
#1
Before hitting my fellow TLer’s with the wall of text I would like to warn you that I’m gonna whine and vent my frustrations, but I also want to see if some people feel/felt the same way (plus my english ain’t happy).

I was never a great player, but I’m decent. Nothing more then decent.

So the SC2 beta came back: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Hit search button, get a match. I’m Terran and my enemy Zerg, we are fighting in metalopolis. Scout after depot and see a 6 pool, finish wall, win.

Hit search button again, get another TvZ, scout baneling bust, finish wall with rax+fac and win.

Awesome battle reports so far right? Well let me say it happened in other 12 matches and I’m 14-1 so far. I defended 14 cheeses and got raped in a macro game, which led me to my first blog post ever.

It just felt like I took 20 steps back from the last time playing the game, I was schooled beginning to end by this protoss player, it wasn’t even close. I can’t help myself from thinking that winning against 6reaper, 6pool, 2gate proxy and so on was a waste of time, and to top that, I wasn’t having fun.

I enjoyed ladder so much in phase 1, I even got to play against CauthonLuck once (I got demolished, obviously). What happened? Is it just the fact that I have to climb to diamond? Bad luck? People not comfortable with the game? People that get cheesed wanna cheese too?

How can I measure my skill if winning against these guys makes me think the (awesome) match making takes me as a “bad player” and when facing a strong guy it felt like D- vs B?

Is it a mistake to go like: “Oh, I defended the baneling bust, just gonna 2 port banshee now and win”? Should I force these games to go in a different direction? Is it my fault for leaning towards these counters to finish off the deal?

I love playing with my friends, but mostly 2x2 and 3x3, they are FPS players, so we just have fun. They are in the bronze league so practicing 1x1 gets old and it’s not enjoyable for either of us. I also tried the Ppartner thread once, but I lacked the will to play the same matchup 6 times in a row.

Now I ask: Do you enjoy laddering? How do you feel when you defend a cheese? Is ladder the right place to learn the game? Does it also feel weird to you to get more satisfaction from a loss then from an easy win?

Don’t get me wrong, I got into starcraft because of bunker rushes (hi Boxer). The feeling of making your first supply depot knowing you could be under attack in a few seconds is great, but for me, it’s nothing similar to a perfectly timed scan or a double nuke on the warpgate line.

There, I feel better now. I would just like to add that this was probably the least rewarding winning streak of my life, and I’m actually happy it ended.


EGM guides me
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
July 10 2010 00:36 GMT
#2
It'll correct itself over time. Right now the ladder is really compressed and everyone has low wins. A lot of people are going to be trying cheese. A good many of them are probably lower tier players who haven't fallen through to the lower rankings yet.

I've kinda noticed this trend every reset. Your first dozen or so games seem likely to have a fair bit of cheese as you climb past the people who can't really play well and think their cheese wins are going to take them to the top. As the ladder matures and becomes stable you'll outgrow that mid level where people cheese a lot.

As for losing a macro based game, you're probably rusty from the downtime.

Of course a practice partner > ladder, but ladder still seems like good practice if you're not a high tier player.
Logo
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
July 10 2010 00:44 GMT
#3
It's bad luck. I've been 6rax repeared once and 6 pooled once out of 40 games. Welcome shitty allins if you can stop them 100% of the time and laugh at how bad your opponent is.

Yup I love laddering and trying to go as high as possible. Love defending cheese because it makes your opponent realize how bad they are.
wanderer
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States641 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-10 01:08:48
July 10 2010 01:06 GMT
#4
I try to keep things interesting.

Example:

One time I played against a guy who was new to the game (he wasn't lying when he said it, as I found out later), so after he gg'd I ran in with my SCVs and move commanded all of my troops to circle his Nexus. This went on for a few minutes as I waited for him to leave.

Little did I know that he had been massing void rays in a proxy in the most random far away spot the entire time, which is why his 1base didnt have many troops. Me and my 2 base + gold expo got demolished.



I recommend trying to use crazy strategies when you know that you are way the fuck ahead. For example I watched a stream of Gretorp going mass BCs against a Z who 6pooled. It was funny.

Another example of a funny one is when I watched KawaiiRice take all the expos in a 3v3 on Arakan or whatever its called. He got obscene amounts of cash and he just massed Factories and Thors out the ass and then ran in and ruined everyone's shit.



... so in short, take those opportunities to practice macro!
Fuck you, I have a degree in mathematics and I speak 12 languages. (I called the World Cup final in 2008 btw)
The_Pacifist
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States540 Posts
July 10 2010 01:11 GMT
#5
Yeah, ladder resets tend to welcome plenty of cheese players who see the reset as "Oh, boy! This is it! A shortcut chance to make it into that shiny Diamond league! I don't have the skill to actually work my way up so if I just cheese these next few placement games..."

Give it some time. It'll take a while (expect a reset and more cheese after the game release too), but things will stabilize and playing sc2 will be cotton candy and rainbows again.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 130
EmSc Tv 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 8252
Shuttle 399
LuMiX 2
Dota 2
PGG 156
League of Legends
Doublelift4274
JimRising 671
Counter-Strike
jkaem43
Other Games
gofns11290
summit1g6005
Grubby2451
FrodaN850
shahzam460
PiGStarcraft325
C9.Mang0287
Liquid`Hasu256
syndereN172
Fuzer 152
XaKoH 126
NeuroSwarm71
ViBE43
ZombieGrub43
KnowMe33
JuggernautJason20
Railgan20
PPMD14
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV174
Counter-Strike
PGL80
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 18
EmSc2Tv 18
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 20
• Hupsaiya 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki45
• HerbMon 28
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV631
League of Legends
• Nemesis4167
• Jankos3568
• Scarra869
Other Games
• imaqtpie780
• Shiphtur211
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
12h 2m
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
18h 2m
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
20h 2m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 12h
IPSL
1d 18h
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.