• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:09
CEST 07:09
KST 14:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 236ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion1BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion1Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026 Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch 60% Keyboards Viable for Starcraft?
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5954 users

Ladder experience

Blogs > Zozo
Post a Reply
Zozo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil2579 Posts
July 10 2010 00:29 GMT
#1
Before hitting my fellow TLer’s with the wall of text I would like to warn you that I’m gonna whine and vent my frustrations, but I also want to see if some people feel/felt the same way (plus my english ain’t happy).

I was never a great player, but I’m decent. Nothing more then decent.

So the SC2 beta came back: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Hit search button, get a match. I’m Terran and my enemy Zerg, we are fighting in metalopolis. Scout after depot and see a 6 pool, finish wall, win.

Hit search button again, get another TvZ, scout baneling bust, finish wall with rax+fac and win.

Awesome battle reports so far right? Well let me say it happened in other 12 matches and I’m 14-1 so far. I defended 14 cheeses and got raped in a macro game, which led me to my first blog post ever.

It just felt like I took 20 steps back from the last time playing the game, I was schooled beginning to end by this protoss player, it wasn’t even close. I can’t help myself from thinking that winning against 6reaper, 6pool, 2gate proxy and so on was a waste of time, and to top that, I wasn’t having fun.

I enjoyed ladder so much in phase 1, I even got to play against CauthonLuck once (I got demolished, obviously). What happened? Is it just the fact that I have to climb to diamond? Bad luck? People not comfortable with the game? People that get cheesed wanna cheese too?

How can I measure my skill if winning against these guys makes me think the (awesome) match making takes me as a “bad player” and when facing a strong guy it felt like D- vs B?

Is it a mistake to go like: “Oh, I defended the baneling bust, just gonna 2 port banshee now and win”? Should I force these games to go in a different direction? Is it my fault for leaning towards these counters to finish off the deal?

I love playing with my friends, but mostly 2x2 and 3x3, they are FPS players, so we just have fun. They are in the bronze league so practicing 1x1 gets old and it’s not enjoyable for either of us. I also tried the Ppartner thread once, but I lacked the will to play the same matchup 6 times in a row.

Now I ask: Do you enjoy laddering? How do you feel when you defend a cheese? Is ladder the right place to learn the game? Does it also feel weird to you to get more satisfaction from a loss then from an easy win?

Don’t get me wrong, I got into starcraft because of bunker rushes (hi Boxer). The feeling of making your first supply depot knowing you could be under attack in a few seconds is great, but for me, it’s nothing similar to a perfectly timed scan or a double nuke on the warpgate line.

There, I feel better now. I would just like to add that this was probably the least rewarding winning streak of my life, and I’m actually happy it ended.


EGM guides me
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
July 10 2010 00:36 GMT
#2
It'll correct itself over time. Right now the ladder is really compressed and everyone has low wins. A lot of people are going to be trying cheese. A good many of them are probably lower tier players who haven't fallen through to the lower rankings yet.

I've kinda noticed this trend every reset. Your first dozen or so games seem likely to have a fair bit of cheese as you climb past the people who can't really play well and think their cheese wins are going to take them to the top. As the ladder matures and becomes stable you'll outgrow that mid level where people cheese a lot.

As for losing a macro based game, you're probably rusty from the downtime.

Of course a practice partner > ladder, but ladder still seems like good practice if you're not a high tier player.
Logo
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
July 10 2010 00:44 GMT
#3
It's bad luck. I've been 6rax repeared once and 6 pooled once out of 40 games. Welcome shitty allins if you can stop them 100% of the time and laugh at how bad your opponent is.

Yup I love laddering and trying to go as high as possible. Love defending cheese because it makes your opponent realize how bad they are.
wanderer
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States641 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-10 01:08:48
July 10 2010 01:06 GMT
#4
I try to keep things interesting.

Example:

One time I played against a guy who was new to the game (he wasn't lying when he said it, as I found out later), so after he gg'd I ran in with my SCVs and move commanded all of my troops to circle his Nexus. This went on for a few minutes as I waited for him to leave.

Little did I know that he had been massing void rays in a proxy in the most random far away spot the entire time, which is why his 1base didnt have many troops. Me and my 2 base + gold expo got demolished.



I recommend trying to use crazy strategies when you know that you are way the fuck ahead. For example I watched a stream of Gretorp going mass BCs against a Z who 6pooled. It was funny.

Another example of a funny one is when I watched KawaiiRice take all the expos in a 3v3 on Arakan or whatever its called. He got obscene amounts of cash and he just massed Factories and Thors out the ass and then ran in and ruined everyone's shit.



... so in short, take those opportunities to practice macro!
Fuck you, I have a degree in mathematics and I speak 12 languages. (I called the World Cup final in 2008 btw)
The_Pacifist
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States540 Posts
July 10 2010 01:11 GMT
#5
Yeah, ladder resets tend to welcome plenty of cheese players who see the reset as "Oh, boy! This is it! A shortcut chance to make it into that shiny Diamond league! I don't have the skill to actually work my way up so if I just cheese these next few placement games..."

Give it some time. It'll take a while (expect a reset and more cheese after the game release too), but things will stabilize and playing sc2 will be cotton candy and rainbows again.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Crank Gathers S4: Group Stage
LiquipediaDiscussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
23:00
FSL Team League S11 POG vs ASH
Liquipedia
OSC
22:00
Vespene Cup #1
davetesta13
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft627
PiGStarcraft401
Nina 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4023
Soma 77
ZergMaN 43
Icarus 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm198
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 800
Counter-Strike
summit1g9158
Other Games
C9.Mang0372
ViBE166
Maynarde130
Mew2King41
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick31181
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 146
• practicex 28
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt473
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 51m
Serral vs Bunny
ByuN vs GgMaChine
CranKy Ducklings
4h 51m
Afreeca Starleague
4h 51m
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
SC Evo League
6h 51m
ByuN vs Classic
Cure vs Solar
IPSL
10h 51m
Dragon vs Ret
Patches Events
10h 51m
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 4h
IPSL
1d 10h
Bonyth vs Hawk
GSL
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.