EPTAt least he isn't making 3.00 an hour working in sweat shop conditions because right now he has no choice but to take any job that he can.
uk economics and why it fails - Page 3
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
At least he isn't making 3.00 an hour working in sweat shop conditions because right now he has no choice but to take any job that he can. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On July 02 2010 04:08 Caller wrote: i seriously think that people should be banned from making discussion topics about economics until they've published a paper. The idiocy in this thread is astounding, especially from that guy called Caller. All that's really going on is that people are using a combination of faulty logic, argument from authority, and condescendingly simple versions of what are actually mathematically complex economical models in order to argue in favor of their own personal political bias. I used to argue a lot in these until I started taking economics and realized how l was a huge fucking idiot. That's why I don't argue in these anymore-because it's a whole bunch of people trying to seem far more economically literate than they actually are. I was even going to ignore this but I just lost my temper. You can't get more caricatural than an eco model. Eco-boys are so delusional that they make sociology look like a serious and humble discipline. But yea i miss all your cool graphs with the Edgeworth box or some sort of Solow model  | ||
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
On July 02 2010 06:36 kidcrash wrote:My dad worked 20 years perfect attendance at his job where he made 18 dollars an hour. Then he got laid off due to outsourcing, the same year my mom had to go through brain surgery that completely drained his bank account and retirement account along with having to re mortgage his already paid off house back to the bank. My mom was given a 50/50 chance on life and she lived through it. Now he works for 7.50 an hour at Super K Mart stocking shelves. And? If the job got outsourced it means your dad was being overpaid for his work. Its ridiculous to expect a company to continue overpaying a worker when they have alternatives, no matter what his circumstances are. http://www.scribd.com/doc/33655771/Economics-is-Hard Apparently, if-then thinking is "hard"? This article is pretty silly. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
On July 02 2010 04:08 Caller wrote: i seriously think that people should be banned from making discussion topics about economics until they've published a paper. The idiocy in this thread is astounding, especially from that guy called Caller. All that's really going on is that people are using a combination of faulty logic, argument from authority, and condescendingly simple versions of what are actually mathematically complex economical models in order to argue in favor of their own personal political bias. I used to argue a lot in these until I started taking economics and realized how l was a huge fucking idiot. That's why I don't argue in these anymore-because it's a whole bunch of people trying to seem far more economically literate than they actually are. I was even going to ignore this but I just lost my temper. You clearly haven't taken enough classes then. You are likely correct about your self-assessment, and you're going to make a similar statement in the future after you take classes past the basic level because economics in the end is about intuition more than math. Don't assume "complicated math" is equivalent to "good economics". Oh, don't assume "publishing a paper" makes you a good economist either. Your pathetic attempt at self-deprecation aside, whatever you are saying applies best to your current post more than anyone else in this topic because nearly everyone has approached this from a policy perspective and not much from economics really. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On July 02 2010 06:42 Boblion wrote: You can't get more caricatural than an eco model. Eco-boys are so delusional that they make sociology look like a serious and humble discipline. But yea i miss all your cool graphs with the Edgeworth box or some sort of Solow model THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT. anybody that's arguing about econ without actually bothering to understand the basic principles that support is just as much of an idiot as the communist/capitalist you're arguing with. | ||
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
On July 02 2010 07:57 kzn wrote: And? If the job got outsourced it means your dad was being overpaid for his work. Its ridiculous to expect a company to continue overpaying a worker when they have alternatives, no matter what his circumstances are. Apparently, if-then thinking is "hard"? This article is pretty silly. Here's a nice If-then scenario for you. If you're paying your workers too much then be more careful with how much you pay them, how large your raises are. If you're paying your workers too much then your math was wrong somewhere. Yes, it's hard to predict long term projections, however a mistake is a mistake regardless of how hard it was to calculate. I don't see how the employees should suffer for the companies mismanagement. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
Also, Caller, just...stay away from these threads. Don't even read em. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8086 Posts
On July 02 2010 08:31 Caller wrote: THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT. anybody that's arguing about econ without actually bothering to understand the basic principles that support is just as much of an idiot as the communist/capitalist you're arguing with. You know the problem of what you say? The only logical following is that economic question should be left to specialist, and that people should shut their mouth about it. And as it is also said in the book that economy is the only thing which really matter (it's the economy, idiot!), then we can as well forget about democracy and turn to some kind of technocratic system where specilaist do the job objectively. Now, I will tell you my problem with economics. Economics tell (vaguely) you how to run well the economy of a country. But it doesn't tell you what for, whom, for whom, at what human cost, etc... That's what was called, a long time ago, political economy. Some people here were discussing about minimal wage. I don't give a damn about the 65573 theories the economist invented about if the minimal wage is good or not for the economy. I don't want to live in a country where people can get paid 1$ an hour, that's it. I also notice that some economic theories which have been made very seriously by the most famous economist (Mister Friedman, hi!) had effect that I can only consider as fucking disastrous. So, yeah, I understand what you mean, but somehow, I can't agree. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
You cant do shit on minimum wage, most places that offer it dont even hire people at 40 hrs a week. Someone said that having more lower paying jobs would lead to a decrease in crime? Are you kidding me? The reason people sell drugs is because they can make pennies on minimum wage or make good easy money selling drugs. If the minimum wage was lowered poor people would be exploited, period. If the only job you can get is a minimum wage job, what are you going to do if they lower the wage? You cant do shit thats what, you end up being a slave to your employer. Minimum wage now is around $7.25 or something (it was like 5.60 when I was working a minimum wage job) and that money is nothing. If you decreased that even more what the fuck are people going to do? How can you buy gas? Pay for an apartment? Real Wages in the US have been decreasing for quite a while and it has nothing to do with minimum wage. The people arguing for this are probably upper middle class white kids who have latched on to libertarianism. Get out in the real world for a change. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On July 02 2010 07:57 kzn wrote: And? If the job got outsourced it means your dad was being overpaid for his work. Its ridiculous to expect a company to continue overpaying a worker when they have alternatives, no matter what his circumstances are. Apparently, if-then thinking is "hard"? This article is pretty silly. Wow you are a fucking tool. His job got outsourced because other countries dont play by the same fucking rules as us. Do you really want to be Mexico or China? Get fucking real. Your parents and you are probably being overpaid for your work then. Im sure theres somebody in Mexico or Eastern Europe or Asia/Africa that could do it for cheaper. Some of you are "lucky" to live in a bubble. Someday you will be in for a rude awakening. "And then they came for me....." | ||
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
If the job got outsourced it means your dad was being overpaid for his work. Its ridiculous to expect a company to continue overpaying a worker when they have alternatives, no matter what his circumstances are." "Wow you are a fucking tool. His job got outsourced because other countries dont play by the same fucking rules as us." So which one is it? I understand it could be a combination of both but I was strictly referring to the first point, as it was the one being discussed. (in other words the matter at hand). But as to your point, it was actually out-sourced to the UK not Mexico or China. Please don't just make stuff up, we use facts and logic here, thanks. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
Jobs get outsourced because companies can make a bigger profit paying people pennies in asia or mexico and then sell the product here for a HUGE profit. I dont understand what you dont understand. Do you want to not have labor laws so people can earn pennies here and live in slums? How about you learn how to quote so you can be less confusing. | ||
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
On July 02 2010 11:08 Sadist wrote: here? Ok douche. Whos job gets outsourced to the UK. Almost all jobs in the US get outsourced to Mexico or Asia/India. Dont give me this fact shit. Jobs get outsourced because companies can make a bigger profit paying people pennies in asia or mexico and then sell the product here for a HUGE profit. I dont understand what you dont understand. Do you want to not have labor laws so people can earn pennies here and live in slums? How about you learn how to quote so you can be less confusing. So you call me a douche and are basically calling me a liar because I said my dads job got outsourced to the UK and you refuse to believe me. There is nothing to understand, I'm stating a fact and unless you call me a liar than there is really no "concept" to be understood because it's your word against mine and I have no reason to lie. Are you getting defensive because I proved that jobs get outsourced other places than 3rd world countries from personal experience? I didn't feel the need to quote because I clearly explained what the first quote was and you obviously knew what the second quote was because you said it. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On July 02 2010 11:16 kidcrash wrote: So you call me a douche and are basically calling me a liar because I said my dads job got outsourced to the UK and you refuse to believe me. There is nothing to understand, I'm stating a fact and unless you call me a liar than there is really no "concept" to be understood because it's your word against mine and I have no reason to lie. Are you getting defensive because I proved that jobs get outsourced other places than 3rd world countries from personal experience? I didn't feel the need to quote because I clearly explained what the first quote was and you obviously knew what the second quote was because you said it. I didnt say you were lying, I said WHOS JOBS GET OUTSOURCED TO THE UK? Im from Michigan, all the manufacturing lost tons of jobs to Mexico here (my dad included). The majority of jobs are lost to Mexico due to NAFTA. Others get outsourced to China. If your dad lost his job to the UK I hardly call it outsourcing. | ||
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
1. Economic change ( no ones fault, result of a constantly changing and unpredictable market). 2. Bad choices made by the people in charge (companies CEOs overpaying their workers, spending too much). Although it is not always completely the companies fault, it's still their responsibility to make sure their costs are in balance with their profits. They then have to compensate with finding cheaper work elsewhere. In the end the workers suffer for the companies bad math. 3. Greed. Once again the results are the workers suffering for the choices made by the people running these companies. Usually it's a combination of 2 or 3 of the above points. No matter who or what is responsible, if anything at all, the working middle class suffers the most. I'd say the solution starts at the core of the problem and would involve raising the labor laws and standards in 3rd world countries. | ||
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
On July 02 2010 10:40 Sadist wrote:Wow you are a fucking tool. Umad? Might want to get an argument out before you start the blind insults. His job got outsourced because other countries dont play by the same fucking rules as us. Do you really want to be Mexico or China? Get fucking real. They play by exactly the same rules as us. The difference between Mexico/China and the US is the same as the difference between your average TL player of SC and one of the stereotypical 'norush 15min' players you can find at will. Your parents and you are probably being overpaid for your work then. Im sure theres somebody in Mexico or Eastern Europe or Asia/Africa that could do it for cheaper. That would be quite possible, if any of us were working. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4420 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On July 02 2010 08:29 Milkis wrote: You clearly haven't taken enough classes then. You are likely correct about your self-assessment, and you're going to make a similar statement in the future after you take classes past the basic level because economics in the end is about intuition more than math. Don't assume "complicated math" is equivalent to "good economics". Oh, don't assume "publishing a paper" makes you a good economist either. Your pathetic attempt at self-deprecation aside, whatever you are saying applies best to your current post more than anyone else in this topic because nearly everyone has approached this from a policy perspective and not much from economics really. naw i just don't know anything and you and i both know it | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On July 02 2010 16:01 kzn wrote: Umad? Might want to get an argument out before you start the blind insults. They play by exactly the same rules as us. The difference between Mexico/China and the US is the same as the difference between your average TL player of SC and one of the stereotypical 'norush 15min' players you can find at will. That would be quite possible, if any of us were working. im sure you are ok with 20 hr work days, no safety regulations, and child labor then too. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On July 02 2010 21:59 Sadist wrote: im sure you are ok with 20 hr work days, no safety regulations, and child labor then too. Whoa, it's a slippery slope! Anyone wanna go sledding? | ||
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