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Draconizard
628 Posts
On June 27 2010 05:33 Djzapz wrote: Anyone who affirms without the shadow of a doubt that aliens visit earth is likely pretty messed up. Your statement applies equally well (perhaps even more so) to any of the organized religions to which the majority of the population clings. So, why the stigma against the former and not the latter? | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 27 2010 05:42 Draconizard wrote: Your statement applies equally well (perhaps even more so) to any of the organized religions to which the majority of the population clings. So, why the stigma against the former and not the latter? You mean why isn't there a stigma against religion but there is a stigma against UFO sightings? I didn't want this to go there but I'll explain if you need me to. In modern society, there's this idea that religion is sort of sacred. Even atheists, like myself, try to be respectful of people's religions most of the time. When I visit my gf's parents in TX, I "play along" when they pray at the table before eating a ridiculously good steak. There are obvious reasons for why a person's religion is exceptionally "important" to them and I won't go into details here because I don't want to, but basically, I don't think it's possible for a person in a country like ours to not at LEAST have doubts about whatever "irrational" beliefs they may have. When you question them, it makes them uncomfortable so they largely ignore it. Also you obviously can't have stigma in a society where most people are religious. There's a stigma against Scientology because their cult is openly a scam but the people are so into it that they disregard that fact. Same deal with the Raelians which are part of a cult which believes in UFOs and all that stuff. There's a fairly recent "denomination" of Christianity is also openly a scam (hint: they hate gay people and spent millions dollars grieving them). Yet, people are attached to their scams. There IS stigma against them because they just do things that seem funny and weird to all of us, because we're not used to it. But when you think about it, people from all kind of beliefs have weird ceremonies... Look into a church. Let's pretend we had never seen a church and suddenly people started making statues of a guy with nails in his hands and feet on a cross, it would look REALLY weird and we'd (all) think it's crazy - and then there would be as much stigma against it as there is for all of those little sects. We're just used to it, so when we see Jesus on the cross, we don't really react to it. | ||
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Draconizard
628 Posts
On June 27 2010 05:59 Djzapz wrote: You mean why isn't there a stigma against religion but there is a stigma against UFO sightings? I didn't want this to go there but I'll explain if you need me to. In modern society, there's this idea that religion is sort of sacred. Even atheists, like myself, try to be respectful of people's religions most of the time. When I visit my gf's parents in TX, I "play along" when they pray at the table before eating a ridiculously good steak. There are obvious reasons for why a person's religion is exceptionally "important" to them and I won't go into details here because I don't want to, but basically, I don't think it's possible for a person in a country like ours to not at LEAST have doubts about whatever "irrational" beliefs they may have. When you question them, it makes them uncomfortable so they largely ignore it. Also you obviously can't have stigma in a society where most people are religious. There's a stigma against Scientology because their cult is openly a scam but the people are so into it that they disregard that fact. Same deal with the Raelians which are part of a cult which believes in UFOs and all that stuff. There IS stigma against them because they just do things that seem funny and weird to all of us, because we're not used to it. But when you think about it, people from all religions have weird ceremonies... Look into a church - if we had never done that before and suddenly people started making statues of a guy with nails in his hands and feet on a cross, it would look REALLY weird and we'd think it's crazy - and then there would be as much stigma against it as there is for all of those little sects. We're just used to it, so when we see Jesus on the cross, we don't really react to it. My question was rhetorical; I know full well about organized religion's special shroud of undeserved respectability. I apologize for not being more clear. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 27 2010 06:12 Draconizard wrote: My question was rhetorical; I know full well about organized religion's special shroud of undeserved respectability. I apologize for not being more clear. My bad | ||
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
this one too: good video to watch by a proper scientist  | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
Edit: Keep in mind that Panspermia is an extremely unlikely scenario. He's speculating quite a bit and doesn't actively believe that it happened. The 2nd video is pretty good too. Very true. Perception & You. | ||
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maga33
United States247 Posts
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VTArlock
United States1763 Posts
On June 27 2010 09:41 maga33 wrote: Life outside of our planet, yes. Visited us, not likely. Ya I agree with this statement. I 100% believe in aliens, but I doubt they've visited us. | ||
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Fritts
Canada63 Posts
and yeah, the disclosure project seems fine until it gets to the part about aliens having bases on the backside of our moon, that's when my face contorts a bit. I like to keep an open mind about this sort of thing. There have been thousands of UFO reports over the decades and among them there are many even the brightest minds have trouble coming up with a reasonable explanation for. This doesn't in any way mean they are alien crafts but I don't think we should completely rule out that possibility just because it seems improbable. A little over 100 years ago people told the Wright brothers flying was impossible, today the physics of flight is almost common sense. Not only crazy people consider aliens a possibility, in the past a nobel prize winning physicist was surprised about the lack of evidence for alien visitation. See the Fermi Paradox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox With that said, it doesn't matter what kind of media related to this subject is posted on the net, this subject will always be stigmatized until concrete physical evidence is found. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
the physics of flight is almost common sense Huhuh... I would disagree =P But anyway, I don't give much merit to the Fermi paradox. There's a high probability of intelligent life existing elsewhere in the universe, it's true, but if they sent "messages" of any kind, it wouldn't ever reach our galaxy (assuming that they were outside). The probability of life existing in the milky way is lower. If there's life in the milky way, they can send signals like we do. Those travel "slowly". By the time we receive it, it'll have been tens of thousands of years or more. Maybe we don't even have the technology to intercept those signals but I'm guessing that's not the case. Now, the diameter of the milky way is roughly 100,000 light years, let's say we receive radio signals that are still intact somehow after traveling in space at the speed of light for 50,000 years. It would then take another 50,000 years for them to receive the response. Provided everything goes well, it takes 100,000 for a civilization to hear back from the other unless they're close together. No matter what random numbers you put to it, it's a long time - especially for a civilization, and especially for people who live not much longer than 100 years. Let's say we receive an alien message today and it's found out to be genuine, then we freak out and we respond. Hopefully we have some kind of way to make that message "useful" in that, it's got to be hard to communicate with an entirely different species. Naturally that message would be a broadcast and not just a one time thing. Now though, 100,000 years in, our message reaches their planet. Are they still there? They could have been dead well before we received their message. There are plenty of things that can wipe out a planet or a species or at least slow it down a lot. Right now there are scientists working on "antimatter". Maybe once a civilization reaches a certain point in its scientific discoveries, it inevitably blows itself up. This is just a possibility of course but anybody can see that with a growing world population, there's bound to be important conflicts in the future... Let alone 100,000 years. And LET'S SAY both civilizations are still there, do we go? Do we not go? If we go there what do we do? Do we have the technology for space travel over such long distances? Is such technology even feasible? Who's willing to get on a ship that won't really be able to communicate with earth? When we get there 50,000+ years later, what the shizzle do we do there? Are they still around? Hostile? The thing is, here, it's easy to say "well you assume we're right about physics, maybe it's possible to bend time and space" or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that it's pretty hard to wrap your mind around some wacky "hypothesis" if you will that says it's possible to go faster than light. MAYBE it turns out to be possible but the fact that we don't think so lowers, for us, the odds that aliens may be around. Another argument is, the universe is 14 billion years old. Intelligent life could (probably will) form in the future, and some intelligent life will probably go extinct (well technically eventually it'll all go extinct when the whole Universe is frozen). We've only been around for a tiny tiny nick on a giant timeline. If we don't happen to be around at the same time as whatever other civilization. Personally I wouldn't bet any money on whether or not we'll be around in a million years (and even 1 million is a tiny amount of time in the grand scheme of things). I mean it's true, in the last 100 years we went from not having much to blowing up a 50 megatons nuke that could easily be deployed to kill millions of people. Imagine what we'll be able to blow up in 1000 years. | ||
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Dance.jhu
United States292 Posts
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Art.FeeL
1163 Posts
OT: I don't believe in these UFOs that are closely watching on us or smth. Aliens may exist somewhere else in the universe, but it's highly undoubtedly that they are invading the Earth. Have you ever wondered why the UFO stories started after 1940 and not before? Well it is well known that the Nazis experimented with aircrafts that were very similar to these 'UFO planes' and it is probable that someone else managed to make something of it (USA, Russia,...) Just my two cents. | ||
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Skvid
Lithuania751 Posts
And yea im a fan of sci-fi, and i'm really hoping that we aren't the only ones out here but i don't BELIEVE in it. As for your story OP, no i don't believe it at all. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On June 27 2010 19:10 Art.FeeL wrote: Dude, go read Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I recommend it to every one of you who believe/is suspicious of things like ghosts, UFOs, aliens, witches, and so on. It is really well written and it opens your eyes on some things. Definitively a good read. OT: I don't believe in these UFOs that are closely watching on us or smth. Aliens may exist somewhere else in the universe, but it's highly undoubtedly that they are invading the Earth. Have you ever wondered why the UFO stories started after 1940 and not before? Well it is well known that the Nazis experimented with aircrafts that were very similar to these 'UFO planes' and it is probable that someone else managed to make something of it (USA, Russia,...) Just my two cents. I remember watching a show and the Nazi's apparently had alot of really really advanced tech in testing (i believe theres some anti grav ring?) or some shit in France well thats what people think its for anyway iirc..that they sealed all the tunnels full of concrete after abandoning them(Nazi's did) I have no doubt in my mind they had alotttttttttttt of fucked up shit going on. On Topic, no matter what anyone says after watching some stuff on the Ancient Astronaut thing, i firmly believe in it. It makes sooo much sense, apparently "Chariots of the Gods?" is a good book which ill be getting tuesday :D:D so ill report back then | ||
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Lysteria
France2280 Posts
It's when it speaks of intelligent life I'm a little bit more concerned. The universe is fucking huge, so huge it's absolutely easier to find a needle hidden deeply in the Pacific Ocean. And if the distance wasn't the only problem, time is another. Humanity is young, timely speaking. If an UFO, somewhere in the universe, decided to check our planet at the right time, and made the move to Earth like the pure luckiest UFO in the universe, he'd have the right to play lottery every week. 10.000 years, compared to the timeline of the whole universe, is a blink. And people who see UFO are way too many, so many I just can't believe them. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 27 2010 22:05 arb wrote: On Topic, no matter what anyone says after watching some stuff on the Ancient Astronaut thing, i firmly believe in it. Why would you firmly believe in something which is demonstrably shady and a scam.... Start thinking man. | ||
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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
On June 28 2010 00:21 Djzapz wrote: Why would you firmly believe in something which is demonstrably shady and a scam.... Start thinking man. How is a theory a scam? Unless of course there is no merit to the claims and they just try and sell you stuff ;p | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 28 2010 05:17 TadH wrote: How is a theory a scam? Unless of course there is no merit to the claims and they just try and sell you stuff ;p "How is a theory a scam" Are you serious? You do realize that it's not a scientific theory? It's as much of a theory as the Flying Spaghetti Monster theory. Should you believe it just because it calls ITSELF a theory? | ||
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Issor
United States870 Posts
It's silly to think they don't exist - the notion that we're somehow the one habitable planet with factors that facilitate the development of life is... narrow-minded. There is certainly life out there. At the same time, the notion that we're "actively visited" by aliens is equally silly. To assume that, just because they don't live here, they're somehow SUPER TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED AND CAN LIKE DEFY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS WHOA is nonsensical. I mean I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY unlikely. frankly, we'll probably find evidence of life in our own solar system sometime soon (relative to, say, the time it might take for us to find it outside our solar system), but it will be long-extinct and/or simple single-celled organisms. I'm looking at you, Mars. | ||
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