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Hey all, I come again to TL for my troubles.
So my parents have this old computer - windows xp, 512mb ram, old motherboard and pentium processor - but it suits what they do: just browsing the web, checking email, no need to run stuff like crysis or video editing software.
So the cpu has been acting up lately. I checked the temperature and it goes to around 100 degrees C when doing stuff like watching HD videos on youtube, and sometimes shuts itself down because it's so damn hot. And this is when I disable automatic shutdown due to high cpu temps. If I put automatic shutdown around 60 or even 70 degrees C, it shuts down after a few minutes of use.
My question is, how likely is it the cpu itself is the problem versus it being the fan or the heatsink? I can order a new one (only like $25 including shipping on geeks.com), but it doesn't include a heatsink and fan. If the problem is the cpu, then I can order a new one and use the old heatsink and fan. If the problem is the heatsink or fan, I can just take a heatsink/fan from some old computer sitting in the basement.
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Could be a number of things I guess, I've had the same problem where it was the fans malfunctioning which was easy enough to fix. On the other hand I've had it be the computer just dieing and had to get a different one. More detail?
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clean that cpu fan out (and other shit too)
i guarantee that you will find ridiculous amounts of dust
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Is your room too hot? Since it's the summer, you might need to turn on the Air conditioning. Also try to clean the dust off the fans.
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If you disable automatic shut down due to CPU temperature and the computer still shuts down, consider the possibility that there's another piece of hardware that's the problem while if you put it at 60-70 it shuts down because of that threshold instead of the issue.
If the fan blows and the heatsink is relatively clean, then that's not the problem. First unplug your computer (obviously), remove the heatsink and apply new thermal paste on the CPU after cleaning the old stuff. MAKE SURE it's seated properly and every bracket is in place because if one of the brackets is broken then obviously it won't be seated properly.
You can find guides on the internet about how to do that properly (don't put too much thermal paste but it's absolutely essential to put some). I've seen people try to seat their heatsink without thermal paste and they wondered why it didn't work.
If this isn't it another very plausible possibility is your ram is faulty. Run memtest or try another chip of ram.
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Make sure the fan is spinning at the posted speeds for the model. You can check fan speed in your BIOS, if you don't know how, you probably shouldn't poke around there anyways. Another issue can be your thermal paste degrading. It's a material between your heatsink and processor that helps conduct heat effectively. If all else fails, do it yourself or take it to the shop and tell them you need some new thermal paste applied. Should only be 20-30 bucks or so. Stuff itself is only a few bucks.
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I'm guessing that you have very limited experience with computer maintenance and hardware (stop me if I'm wrong). My best advice would be to take it into a local shop and tell them what is happening. Most likely a proper dust removal with compressed air and re-seating the heatsink will fix the issue.
If you want to do it yourself:
1) make sure everything is clear of dust
2) check that all of your fans are functional
3) check that the CPU heatsink is being held in place firmly. Mounting pressure is important, make sure none of the screws/plastic tabs are loose.
4) If 1-3 do not solve the problem consider re-seating your heatsink. There are many guides on how to do this, while it isn't rocket science proper thermal paste application can be key to a good CPU temp (any half-decent application will fix overheating of this magnitude).
Use a coffee filter and 70% or higher isopropol alcohol to remove the original thermal compound. Get the heatsink and top of CPU as clean as possible. High % isopropol alcohol is ideal since it will evaporate very quickly, making it pretty much impossible to damage the CPU (provided it is a modern CPU with integrated heat spreader, i.e. was purchased within the last 9 years) while easily removing gunk.
As far as applying thermal paste, there are many methods, but you want full coverage on the CPU while trying to achieve a very thin layer of compound. A simple and reliable method if you haven't had alot of practice is to put the CPU in the motherboard, and then squeeze out a bead of compound roughly the size of a grain of cooked white rice. Then apply the heatsink on top and attach clips/screws without moving it around too much. The mounting pressure should be enough to spread the compound, but it certainly doesn't hurt to put some pressure on it as you finish attaching the heatsink.
I would be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that it is a cooling issue which will be solved by following those steps. The only other thing that I could see causing such crazy overheating would be a BIOS misconfiguration. There isn't much chance at all that your CPU is causing the issue.
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If nothing else mentioned in this thread helps, there have been cases of thermal paste hardening so you may want to take off your heatsink to see if your thermal paste is still functioning correctly.
Dust is probably most likely though.
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probably just your cpu. if it's a pentium 4 it's definitely going to have trouble playing HD videos if you don't have a gpu to offload the work on to. you can get a new heatsink but chances are it won't help you play HD videos much.
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On June 25 2010 16:10 mahnini wrote:
probably just your cpu. if it's a pentium 4 it's definitely going to have trouble playing HD videos if you don't have a gpu to offload the work on to. you can get a new heatsink but chances are it won't help you play HD videos much.
A computer shouldn't crash because the CPU is running at 100%.
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On June 25 2010 16:10 mahnini wrote:
probably just your cpu. if it's a pentium 4 it's definitely going to have trouble playing HD videos if you don't have a gpu to offload the work on to. you can get a new heatsink but chances are it won't help you play HD videos much.
Doesn't matter whether its a P4 or something else, it shouldn't be getting that hot. On full load with normal voltages and a stock heatsink it shouldn't go anywhere near the temps he is describing. Even if you overclock the shit out of a CPU it will still last for 5-10 years before you ever get instability and crashing. It's just a heat issue. It's not like old chips run hotter for any reason...
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Thanks for all the advice guys!
It's definitely not a problem with the temperature in the house, the air is on and it's usually like 71 degrees F in the house.
The fan seems to run fine, but I'll try to get rid of all the dust on it and see how the computer runs. Should I remove the fan and dust off under it too?
All the fans are running.
And if getting rid of all the dust doesn't work, then I guess I'll try the thermal paste thing. I'm guessing they'll be cheapest online?
And if that doesn't work, I'll order that new cpu.
And I'm doing all this tomorrow because it's 3:20 AM here.
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Careful with your diagnosis. With the info you gave us, there's a chance that the CPU isn't the issue.
Anywho best luck!
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On June 25 2010 16:19 ieatkids5 wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys!
It's definitely not a problem with the temperature in the house, the air is on and it's usually like 71 degrees F in the house.
The fan seems to run fine, but I'll try to get rid of all the dust on it and see how the computer runs. Should I remove the fan and dust off under it too?
All the fans are running.
And if getting rid of all the dust doesn't work, then I guess I'll try the thermal paste thing. I'm guessing they'll be cheapest online?
And if that doesn't work, I'll order that new cpu.
And I'm doing all this tomorrow because it's 3:20 AM here.
I would bet you my left testicle that it isn't the CPU that is the issue, but rather the cooling solution for the CPU. You should be able to get thermal compound at any local computer shop. There is good thermal paste and bad thermal paste, but with your problem anything is going to help provided it isn't aerosol cheese. (I've seen CPU's run on aerosol cheese and not get as hot as yours). It should only cost you 10 bucks for enough paste to do 5-10 applications, try to get it locally because you will get killed on shipping online. A couple good cheap brands that you will likely be able to find at your local comp shop are arctic silver 5 and OCZ freeze. These are both very high performance and pretty cheap. You should change your thermal paste every 6 months or so (4 months if you are anal, once a year if you just want to maintain performance)
If that doesn't work reset all of your BIOS settings to factory to make sure your CPU isn't getting too much juice. If it isn't what I suggested send me a PM because I will shit a brick in amazement.
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when i say it's the cpu i don't mean replacing the cpu with a new cpu is going to fix it. i'm sure it could be dust clogging the heatsink or the thermal paste (latter seems unlikely). also, just because a cpu is under 100% load doesn't mean it is being pushed to it's thermal limit (linx vs prime95 for example). i would say the most likely cause is the heatsink or case airflow is just inadequate for this amount of stress.
also more details would help a bit so i don't look like an idiot assuming it's a p4 :D
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On June 25 2010 16:34 mahnini wrote:
when i say it's the cpu i don't mean replacing the cpu with a new cpu is going to fix it. i'm sure it could be dust clogging the heatsink or the thermal paste (latter seems unlikely). also, just because a cpu is under 100% load doesn't mean it is being pushed to it's thermal limit (linx vs prime95 for example). i would say the most likely cause is the heatsink or case airflow is just inadequate for this amount of stress.
To be honest... I read your comment and was basically like: "wtf is this idiot smoking". Glad you redeemed yourself. and yeah... A CPU with stock cooling should never reach its tjMax/thermal limit even if its 40C inside and 100% usage.
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On June 25 2010 16:25 Wr3k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 16:19 ieatkids5 wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys!
It's definitely not a problem with the temperature in the house, the air is on and it's usually like 71 degrees F in the house.
The fan seems to run fine, but I'll try to get rid of all the dust on it and see how the computer runs. Should I remove the fan and dust off under it too?
All the fans are running.
And if getting rid of all the dust doesn't work, then I guess I'll try the thermal paste thing. I'm guessing they'll be cheapest online?
And if that doesn't work, I'll order that new cpu.
And I'm doing all this tomorrow because it's 3:20 AM here. I would bet you my left testicle that it isn't the CPU that is the issue, but rather the cooling solution for the CPU. You should be able to get thermal compound at any local computer shop. There is good thermal paste and bad thermal paste, but with your problem anything is going to help provided it isn't aerosol cheese. (I've seen CPU's run on aerosol cheese and not get as hot as yours). It should only cost you 10 bucks for enough paste to do 5-10 applications, try to get it locally because you will get killed on shipping online. A couple good cheap brands that you will likely be able to find at your local comp shop are arctic silver 5 and OCZ freeze. These are both very high performance and pretty cheap. You should change your thermal paste every 6 months or so (4 months if you are anal, once a year if you just want to maintain performance) If that doesn't work reset all of your BIOS settings to factory to make sure your CPU isn't getting too much juice. If it isn't what I suggested send me a PM because I will shit a brick in amazement.
i'd bet your right testicle as well!
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A word of caution - when mounting the heatsink to the motherboard, be careful not to scratch the mobo. If it gets scratched too bad it will also auto-shutdown the computer.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
If it doesn't work, you should buy a new computer instead. P4 isn't even good enough for youtube these days.
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i tried to open my doors in the house only to notice a 15 degree drop in temperatures. I can play SC with no problem but when i play cod4 i have to have my doors open -.-
Also dont listen to the guy who said something about air condition. Think on the environment, if you turn on the AC you are just making the world warmer. So latere you have to increase the "volume" of the AC because the world got warmer, so essentially you put yourself in a battle with the world and guess who will have to quit first when it comes to adjusting temperatures, the world or your AC?
Also i dont want to have my CPU destroyed so it shuts down at 70 degrees C. You should never allow a CPU to reach 100 degrees C.
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I agree with everyone saying clean the fans, it's real easy with a can of compressed air. You mention Youtube specifically. Flash will rape your cpu. I know HTML5 YouTube uses a lot less resources. But you say it happens more often. Make sure the case has 6+ inches of room from the exhaust and intake fans.
On June 25 2010 19:18 Emon_ wrote:
A word of caution - when mounting the heatsink to the motherboard, be careful not to scratch the mobo. If it gets scratched too bad it will also auto-shutdown the computer.
Sounds like you have experience with this  It's ok I have a much more embarassing story. Forgot to put thermal paste on my heatsink. CPU fused to it, while inspecting the problem I decided to reseat all the parts. When I got to taking off the heatsink off, ripped the CPU right out. Pins looked fine but the motherboard... not so much.
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is awesome32274 Posts
I'm going to take a wild guess that you own a PIV prescott. Those things are always in the 60~70 degrees.
Mahnini nailed it imo
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A few questions:
Has this computer been moved, dropped, or mistreated in any manner? (In most cases picking a computer up and moving it across the room can cause these drastic heating issues because resetting computers is a nice way for those terrible stock heatsinks to become unattached to the CPU->motherboard, which would cause a serious heat influx.)
Other useful information to decide on aftermarket cooling:
What socket is your motherboard/processor?
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Hey all, and thanks for all the help! I finally got around to messing around with the computer again, and I ended up taking out the motherboard's fan and heatsink - they were completely filled with dust. So I vacuumed some of it and cleaned the rest with a moist tissue, put everything back, and now the machine is running fine. Doesn't overheat and shut down anymore.
I know I probably should've followed Wr3k about thermal paste, but I didn't wanna go through the trouble of getting it (lazyyyyy). Just cleaning the dust off worked for now, but applying some thermal paste would probably be better. Well, I'll leave that for next time if this computer starts having more overheating issues.
Oh, and Wr3k, you get to keep your left testicle.
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I have a old xp computer as well that overheats pretty quickly. But it's a laptop. How do i measure the temperature? What program do I use? Thanks
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EPT
