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[Physics] Where is my missing Universe??

Blogs > rei
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rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-31 09:38:47
March 31 2010 09:35 GMT
#1
Long Read about MY understanding of the history in how science discover and learn about Dark matter, dark energy. I have many question and looking for answers! Help me all you theoretical physicist and smart asses of teamliquid.


Everything we can see is made of atoms. Everything we can see run under the rule of gravity. We figured everything out, we even used our knowledge about matters and rule of gravity to put people on moon for no purpose other than "ya we can do that". That was almost a century ago.

Then 2 smart asses from Princeton came along trying to figure out how much matter there is in the entire universe by using computer modeling of the universe. (Let's just say for the sake of argument that the data they use as input mainly velocity and mass for their modeling is verified by 300 other smart asses) After they input the data, their computer model kept telling them that the speed at which the stars are moving, will lead to orbit escape velocities from the center of their galaxies. And the galaxies should have never formed in the first place. (but in reality we have galaxies all over the universe) So that suggests 2 possible errors 1) the data they input is wrong. 2) their understand of gravity is wrong. How can Newton be wrong about Gravity? We put people on the bloody moon for crying out loud because of his understand of gravity. over 300 other smart asses out there all agree on the data they have inputed in the computer model saying it is correct. Well then, what can be done? They decided to run their program backward, they input what they see in a galaxy (the stars velocities and their orbit) and let the program calculate the mass. What they found was the mass required for the velocities they see the stars orbiting the center of the galaxies is vastly larger than what they can measure (how do they measure what they can measure? I don't know someone tell me plz ) in fact what they can measure (aka what we can see also aka matters, also aka stuffs made of atoms) only consist of 4% of that total mass calculated by the computer program. They call the 96% missing mass dark matter. ( I hope they check the code for their program at least 100times before they made this decision )

There was another asshole back in 1930s (no not Einstin) who likes to look at stars and galaxies, and he observed that the galaxies should not be moving in the patterns they are with the observable mass that they have. And because this asshole's arrogance knew no bounds everybody hated him a little more than the rest of the assholes so what he found was completely ignored. Especially when an arrogant asshole says "you are wrong and i'm right, and i got the evidence to prove it!" the rest of his colleagues told him to go fuck himself with his evidence.

The 2 assholes from Princeton want to tell everybody their findings, but they need to have someone who agree with them, well they can't find anyone alive at the time. so they start looking for the dead guys, and they happened to came upon that arrogant asshole's work. (Well could all 3 of these assholes be wrong? possibly but the 2 assholes that are still live can always blame it on the asshole that's been dead for a while if they are proven wrong later )

When they published their findings of this matter (matter get it? haha) the rest of the smart asses said to them "roflmao, we can't disprove it because of your evidence, but we still roflmao at your asses for comming up with something so ridiculous" No one was taking them seriously.

Then came along this sexy mom with 4 kids. She said the rule of gravity dictates that orbital velocity decreases as the distance increases from the center of the orbit. Take our solar system for example
[image loading]

If you put the data of each planets' orbital velocity and distance from the sun on a graph it will look something like the above graph. It makes sense, the further you travel from the sun, the weaker you feel its gravity, and the slower you will move. Well galaxies have to work the same way if rule of gravity applies everywhere in the entire universe. When She look outside of our solar system, in the the scale of stars orbiting around a blackhole to form galaxies. to her surprise the graph looked something like this.
[image loading]

Velocity is constant as distance increase!(increment in terms of 10s of light years) The stars are moving way too fast, the stars near the center blackhole and the stars near the edge of the galaxies are moving in about the same speed, yet they are light years apart. If the law of gravity is correct the outer stars should have escaped the orbits long ago. So if we want to savior Sir Newton's legacy then the observed mass has to be assumed wrong. (Question: Why couldn't the extra mass be inside the blackhole???? instead of in form of dark matter. since they can't see the blackhole how do they figure out how much mass is in the blackhole? ) When this hot mama publish her work, everybody took her seriously. (why her but not the other 2 assholes before her? isn't it obvious? she's 10/10 ? ) In the words of one of her colleague "Her image is stunning"

So finally everybody agree that there is missing mass, and they would call it dark matter, and everybody and their mother would rush to find this dark matter, since it is consist of 96% of our universe's mass it shouldn't be that hard to find them now would it? Well how do you find it? hm... let's see, first we can't see it because it is dark, hence the name dark matter (rofl) 2nd it has mass, since it attracts stars to keep a galaxy together while its stars moving at high speed (oh wait a minute, if our solar system doesn't feel the same effect as the larger scale galaxies feel, and our pulto moves a lot slower than mercury doesn't that mean there is no fucking dark matter anywhere near our solar system??????? could it be that all the extra 96% mass is inside the fucking blackhole? and there is no such thing as dark matter after all?) 3) the dark matters are not compose of atoms. They look and look, for many years, they found nothing, no evidence. The next best thing they can do is use their imagination to project what the dark matter would look like, and estimate how much of them could be around. Even their imagination fell short by around 80% of the total missing mass ( really? we call imagination without evidence in science now? Can someone show me some logical details on these imaginations???) But anyways with their best shot, they logically deduced 20% of the total missing mass is dark matter, together with the 4% normal matter they are still missing about 75% (someone on this field please tell me how they deduce that 20% dark matter? how did they come up with the 20%?)

And then the smart asses from UCB try to measure how fast the universe was expanding,they expected the result is "expansion of the universe is slowing down". But what they found was that the expanding universe is speeding up! They can't explain this shit with the current theories of physics, why the fuck would the expansion speed up instead of slow down? what can defy gravity? Well at least they can measure the acceleration and from that estimate the amount of energy required for this acceleration. E=mc^2 they convert this E to mass it matches the 75% of the missing mass!!!!!!! So they call it the dark energy. ( let me get this straight, they imagined that 20% dark matter, and then the new finding on the expanding universe proved their logic right by coming up with the exact match for the rest of the missing mass of the universe???? (EXACT MATCH?????????, I thought it was a fucking estimate????? Someone give me some numbers plz!!! Am i just going to have to take the words of all these assholes who stare on the telescope all day???)

4% atoms, 21% dark matters and 75% dark energy. Tell me how we get that, someone give me some data!!

4% regular matter
How do you figure out how much light matter there is in a galaxy? how do you measure mass by just staring on them with a telescope?

21% dark matter
can someone please tell me how they deduce this number from no evidence???? and then just happened to get an exact match from something totally unrelated and wasn't even looking for dark matter to begin with?

75% dark energy
ok, Doppler effect of wave lengths is evidences that proves galaxies are speeding up, the acceleration can be measured by the red shift in wavelength. Which suppose to lead to the energy it required to cause the expansion. Can someone tell me which formula they use to derive energy from acceleration? And once they find the energy they use E=MC^2 to figure out the mass. Which is exactly 75% of the total mass of the universe.

Ok operation answer my questions ppl

This is not a homework thread, this is a discussion of theoretical physics. Let's have fun, and show me some formulaZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ



*
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
yB.TeH
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Germany414 Posts
March 31 2010 11:02 GMT
#2
our understanding of gravity is very(!) limited, how can you clam that we have figured everything out lol
Kim_Hyun_Han
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
706 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-31 11:10:57
March 31 2010 11:10 GMT
#3
sir newton's legacy doesnt need to be saved imo


if the aplicability of his theories has been true(even tho not in the atomic level)
then he already got his merit


btw ur knowledge about it surpasses mine
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
March 31 2010 11:19 GMT
#4


This should answer some of your questions. Great talk which covers a lot of ground
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-31 11:26:34
March 31 2010 11:25 GMT
#5
imagine if you made a post that said "please explain the programming of every piece of software that's been written in the last 30 years". or "explain to me all the exact details of how a modern jet aircraft works". That's... more or less what you're asking for here. If you really wanna know the answers to your questions, go get some research journals and start reading the astronomy/cosmology articles in them.

also this was pretty funny:
"Everything we can see is made of atoms"
Actually the only thing that we can see, light, is NOT made of atoms.
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2747 Posts
March 31 2010 11:57 GMT
#6
When theoretical science has not been put to practice by means of engineering, you shouldn't worry about it wether it's true or not lol.

There is so little data yet so much theory. I'd suggest you read up on string theory, haha.
JohannesH
Profile Joined September 2009
Finland1364 Posts
March 31 2010 12:15 GMT
#7
No im not gonna explain this shit

Go read for yourself
If you have to ask, you don't know.
lowbright
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
308 Posts
March 31 2010 12:36 GMT
#8
A significant portion of the missing matter of the universe exists but we just aren't looking properly.

I'm not sure as to the veracity of this article, but it seems to make sense

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/03/24/found-90-of-the-distant-universe/

TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #49
SkylineSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States564 Posts
March 31 2010 12:40 GMT
#9
i'm sure the large hadron collider will give the physicists a lot of insight on universe origins and composition
haaduken
Profile Joined March 2010
United States41 Posts
March 31 2010 13:07 GMT
#10
And then the smart asses from UCB try to measure how fast the universe was expanding,they expected the result is "expansion of the universe is slowing down".


I am not sure which smart asses you're referring to, but I perhaps you've heard of George Smoot. He won a nobel prize in Physics for his work in cosmology, specifically detecting dark energy and matter. You might do well to try and read some of his publications if you seek answers. I actually took one of his classes when I was a physics student at UCB, but I never delved deeply into cosmology, astrophysics, or really anything related and wouldn't be able to answer any of your questions intelligently. I did a lot more quantum mechanics (kind of the opposite).

I am curious where you are studying and what brings about your questions. Best of luck and I'd be happy to talk more if you want to hear my half-assed assumptions.
It's actually ↓, ↘, → + PUNCH!
potatoedoughnut
Profile Joined July 2008
United States334 Posts
March 31 2010 14:58 GMT
#11
I stopped reading after you claimed we landed on the moon almost a century ago.
Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines.
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
March 31 2010 15:01 GMT
#12
On March 31 2010 18:35 rei wrote:
This is not a homework thread, this is a discussion of theoretical physics. Let's have fun, and show me some formulaZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.


Firstly, I'd be having more fun if you stopped calling everyone assholes and using a bazillion question markZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

That aside... Secondly, you're going to need a lot more mathematics to understand how the observations birth theories which predict these numbers of 4% etc. Essentially, they arise from a synthesis of concepts incorporated from such fields as classical mechanics, quantum mechanics, statistical mechanics, thermodynamics, general relativity, nuclear physics, solar physics, and no doubt some others I'm forgetting.

If you really want to start on some cosmology I suggest starting with the observations, as they are the easiest to understand and require the least mathematics. I would recommend researching:

1. The Hubble Constant including: cosmic scale factors, characteristic time and length scales, nonlinearity of expansion

2. Measures of Cosmic Expansion including: Type 1a Supernovae, Long-Period Gamma Ray Bursters, Angular Diameter measures, Baryon Acoustic Oscillation Measure, Strong and Weak Gravitational lensing.

3. Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation including: Dipole anisotropy, primordial fluctuations, acoustic peaks from density perturbations in the primordial plasma, multipoles.

4. Large-scale structure including: bubble walls, voids, scales of homogeneity

5. Visible matter and dark matter
Mass of galaxies is determined by Keplar’s 3rd law
Mass of clusters is determined by the galaxy-galaxy correlation function and average masses therein by the virial theorem.
=>Density parameter for the universe which in part determines future evolution of universe (collapse, freeze)

6. Primordial abundances and nucleosynthesis including: abundance anomalies, baryon density fraction and baryon/photon ratio.
(This is where a knowledge of statistical and quantum mechanics is useful).

7. Dark Energy
This seems to be a hot topic so I’ll go into a bit more depth... The figure 74% comes from the “concordance” lambdaCDM parameters. Possibilities for dark energy include:
a). Finely tuned cosmological constant => cosmic coincidence
b). Quintessence
c). Phantom energy
d). Modified gravity => quantum theory of gravity
e). local cosmic structure anomalies affecting measurements => Strong Equivalence Principal


Once you have a vague understanding of the issues and want to go more in depth I would suggest reading up on:
COSMOLOGICAL MODELS
- Spacetime geometry and the spacetime metric
- Minkowski spacetime
- Special relativity
- Mathematical Structure of General Relativity => Einstein’s field equations
- equations of state and energy conditions (weak, dominant, strong)
- Friedmann Equations (IMPORTANT)
- Basic models of the universe (e.g. Einstein Static, de Sitter, Friedmann, Milne, Friedmann-Lemaitre
- Cosmological parameters (hubble, critical density, deceleration)
- Cosmological redshift and luminosity distances (this answers how to make adjustments to measure things far away)
- Conformal time (angular diameters)
- Expansion age and look-back time
- Cosmological redshift of frequency distributions (blackbody spectrum)
- Surface brightness test
- HORIZONS: particle horizons and event horizons (interesting topic)

THE HOT BIG BANG
- Equilibrium thermodynamics (energy density, number density, pressure)
- Relativistic and non-relativistic limits
- Entropy
- Decoupling (local thermal equilibrium) (This covers the period when and how atoms formed as temperatures in the universe became low enough => dark matter)
- Boson and fermion gases
- Relic radiation
- Matter-radiation equality
- Neutrino decoupling
- Photon/electron decoupling and recombination (freezeout)
- The Saha equation (fractional ionization in equilibrium
- Primordial nucleosynthesis (inverse beta decay, production of light elements, bounds of)

STRUCTURE FORMATION
- Perturbations in the radiation fluid (density contrast (a measure of), evolution of)
- composition of matter (dark, elkos? => quantum field theory)
- Causality
- Sound Horizon
- Spherical collapse model (non-linear growth)
- Gravitational instability (Jeans’ analysis => Jeans’ length)
- Perturbation theory (matter fluid velocity, matter fluid density, gravitational potential, rotational peculiar velocity decays)

INFLATION
- Horizon problem
- Flatness problem
- Monopole problem
- Baryon problem
- Models of inflation (old, slow roll) => Quantum gravity?


This list is by no means exhaustive but should cover the more important or critical ideas in cosmology (moreso than say string theory). There are literally thousands of formulas so I haven’t specified any but a search of each topic will give you the relevant formulae. Hopefully this post keeps inquisitive minds busy!
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
glassmazarin
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden158 Posts
March 31 2010 15:22 GMT
#13
Ok, I'm not the most knowledgable person on dark matter, and I need to go to work, but I think I can answer some questions:

1. You can estimate the total mass of a galaxy by looking at its rotation, which you get from spectroscopic measurements. The angular velocity is far so low for us to be able to "see" rotation in a galaxy (by comparing two images taken in different times) but we use the fact that emission lines get Doppler shifted, so one side of the galaxy looks "redder" than the center and one looks "bluer". You can also use a "mass to luminosity" relation, but I believe that is less certain, although I'm no expert on these matters.

2. The velocity profiles of galaxies suggest not only that there is missing mass, it also suggests that the mass is distributed differently in a given galaxy. So you can not add matter to the central black hole and get the same velocity profile, the matter has to be added more smoothly, with some density gradient that is lower than that of the visible matter. This can be understood if you imagine dark matter particles as "collisionless", only interacting by gravity. Then these particles can not lose angular momentum as efficiently as, for instance, the normal gas in a galaxy, and it will have a harder time accumulating in the center of the galaxy (it will accumulate there, but not as big of a fraction as for "normal" matter).

3. There is, supposedly, dark matter all around us! Including our solar system. However, the rotational velocities of a system is dependent on the distribution of that dark matter in the system, and that is different (much more evenly distributed) in our solar system as compaired to a galaxy.

4. The expanding universe is perfectly explainable using current physics! Its was explainable using Einsteins cosmological constant long ago.

5. I'm not sure about how they did it all originally, but here is an example of how you measure the ratio of mass, dark matter and energy in two steps. Remember, I'm no expert in this particular field.

You observe the rotation of a galaxy. You write a computer model, which includes matter distributed in some way, and dark matter distributed in another way. You vary the amount of matter vs dark matter, as well as their distributions, and see how that affects the rotational velocity distribution you would see if you observe the galaxy. When you have a good match to your observations, you have an estimate of that galaxys normal matter versus dark matter.

By observing the density of galaxies in the universe, and estimating their total mass (normal + dark), we can calculate how the universe should behave (the expansion should be slowing down by some amount because of gravity). When we actually look at the universe, we see that the expansion accelerates. We know the effect matter has on the expansion, and if we add some "negative energy density" to this equation, we will arrive at the correct result, accelerating expansion. Thus you get an estimate of how much "negative energy density" (dark energy density) is required compared to the total mass density.

Have a nice day!
glassmazarin
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden158 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-31 16:10:55
March 31 2010 16:09 GMT
#14
On April 01 2010 00:01 ThunderGod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2010 18:35 rei wrote:
This is not a homework thread, this is a discussion of theoretical physics. Let's have fun, and show me some formulaZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.


Firstly, I'd be having more fun if you stopped calling everyone assholes and using a bazillion question markZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

That aside... Secondly, you're going to need a lot more mathematics to understand how the observations birth theories which predict these numbers of 4% etc. Essentially, they arise from a synthesis of concepts incorporated from such fields as classical mechanics, quantum mechanics, statistical mechanics, thermodynamics, general relativity, nuclear physics, solar physics, and no doubt some others I'm forgetting.

If you really want to start on some cosmology I suggest starting with the observations, as they are the easiest to understand and require the least mathematics. I would recommend researching:

1. The Hubble Constant including: cosmic scale factors, characteristic time and length scales, nonlinearity of expansion

2. Measures of Cosmic Expansion including: Type 1a Supernovae, Long-Period Gamma Ray Bursters, Angular Diameter measures, Baryon Acoustic Oscillation Measure, Strong and Weak Gravitational lensing.

3. Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation including: Dipole anisotropy, primordial fluctuations, acoustic peaks from density perturbations in the primordial plasma, multipoles.

4. Large-scale structure including: bubble walls, voids, scales of homogeneity

5. Visible matter and dark matter
Mass of galaxies is determined by Keplar’s 3rd law
Mass of clusters is determined by the galaxy-galaxy correlation function and average masses therein by the virial theorem.
=>Density parameter for the universe which in part determines future evolution of universe (collapse, freeze)

6. Primordial abundances and nucleosynthesis including: abundance anomalies, baryon density fraction and baryon/photon ratio.
(This is where a knowledge of statistical and quantum mechanics is useful).

7. Dark Energy
This seems to be a hot topic so I’ll go into a bit more depth... The figure 74% comes from the “concordance” lambdaCDM parameters. Possibilities for dark energy include:
a). Finely tuned cosmological constant => cosmic coincidence
b). Quintessence
c). Phantom energy
d). Modified gravity => quantum theory of gravity
e). local cosmic structure anomalies affecting measurements => Strong Equivalence Principal


Once you have a vague understanding of the issues and want to go more in depth I would suggest reading up on:
COSMOLOGICAL MODELS
- Spacetime geometry and the spacetime metric
- Minkowski spacetime
- Special relativity
- Mathematical Structure of General Relativity => Einstein’s field equations
- equations of state and energy conditions (weak, dominant, strong)
- Friedmann Equations (IMPORTANT)
- Basic models of the universe (e.g. Einstein Static, de Sitter, Friedmann, Milne, Friedmann-Lemaitre
- Cosmological parameters (hubble, critical density, deceleration)
- Cosmological redshift and luminosity distances (this answers how to make adjustments to measure things far away)
- Conformal time (angular diameters)
- Expansion age and look-back time
- Cosmological redshift of frequency distributions (blackbody spectrum)
- Surface brightness test
- HORIZONS: particle horizons and event horizons (interesting topic)

THE HOT BIG BANG
- Equilibrium thermodynamics (energy density, number density, pressure)
- Relativistic and non-relativistic limits
- Entropy
- Decoupling (local thermal equilibrium) (This covers the period when and how atoms formed as temperatures in the universe became low enough => dark matter)
- Boson and fermion gases
- Relic radiation
- Matter-radiation equality
- Neutrino decoupling
- Photon/electron decoupling and recombination (freezeout)
- The Saha equation (fractional ionization in equilibrium
- Primordial nucleosynthesis (inverse beta decay, production of light elements, bounds of)

STRUCTURE FORMATION
- Perturbations in the radiation fluid (density contrast (a measure of), evolution of)
- composition of matter (dark, elkos? => quantum field theory)
- Causality
- Sound Horizon
- Spherical collapse model (non-linear growth)
- Gravitational instability (Jeans’ analysis => Jeans’ length)
- Perturbation theory (matter fluid velocity, matter fluid density, gravitational potential, rotational peculiar velocity decays)

INFLATION
- Horizon problem
- Flatness problem
- Monopole problem
- Baryon problem
- Models of inflation (old, slow roll) => Quantum gravity?


This list is by no means exhaustive but should cover the more important or critical ideas in cosmology (moreso than say string theory). There are literally thousands of formulas so I haven’t specified any but a search of each topic will give you the relevant formulae. Hopefully this post keeps inquisitive minds busy!


Are you serious? In no way does he need to know all of that in order to get a basic understanding how you measure galaxy mass as well as the expansion rate of the universe. There is no single person I know of that will say he masters all of what you wrote, and many of my friends and coworkers are into dark matter research and cosmology.

EDIT: Its posts like the above that turn people away from science, since it seems to be completely out of reach for 99.99% of the population
Marradron
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands1586 Posts
March 31 2010 16:22 GMT
#15
science is out of reach for 99.99 procent of the people. at the verry least theorical physics
glassmazarin
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden158 Posts
March 31 2010 17:00 GMT
#16
On April 01 2010 01:22 Marradron wrote:
science is out of reach for 99.99 procent of the people. at the verry least theorical physics


Still, "normal people" can very often appreciate the results of science as well as many of the important arguments used to get to the results without being experts in all areas of astrophysics.
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-31 17:50:21
March 31 2010 17:32 GMT
#17
Thanks so much glassmazarin, For answering with very simple language that is easily understood.

Some wise man once said that "if you can't explain something in simple terms you don't know it enough yet" that's the difference between glassmazarin and some of the others. (thx ThunderGod i will look into some of your suggestions) While humbly saying it is not your field, you explain most of what i wanted to know, and gave me a direction on where I should go look for validation of your answers. ( you didn't think i'm ganna roll over and believe you without doing my own research to confirm them now do you ? )

I decide to write the OP the way is did is because I want people who don't know about this have a chance to understand how this all came about. I took out the names of the scientists because their name are not as important as their work. Sometimes i use exaggeration to make a point, a lot of times i just try to lighten up the mood by calling brilliant scientists assholes (I'm thinking of every guy I wrote about is the dude from Big Bang Theory, and i assume everybody can read my mind and instantly understood the joke without me explaining it)

Please everybody join into the discussion, ask question no matter how stupid it sounds, give us your assumptions and theories. it is only stupid because your pride is trying to protect your ego, but this is the internet, you don't have to protect it hahaha let it all go who gives a shit if some asshole says you are incompetent at theoretical physics, admit incompetency and ask them questions, and if they can't give any ignore them. ahhh the power of ignoring ppl over the internet which you can't do the same in real life, oh wait i had been doing that my entire life hm.. then doesn't that make me an asshole ? well i guess I am.... so let's see, i been calling ppl assholes left and right while being the biggest asshole forever since i remember. wow my hypocrisy truly knows no bounds

and marradron if you can read and understood most of what I wrote regardless of my poor mastery at english. you are amongst 0.01 % of the population.

It doesn't take an Einstin to understand what is already known, it does take an Einstin to understand what is unknown. Guess what? it is more likely that we will find an Einstin, if the other 99% of the population can understand what is already known in science, than say only that 0.01% right?

PS thanks for those who post related vidoes too
PPS for those who wonders why i am studying this shit, I was waiting for the OSL round of 16 last night, and the came out of no where someone casted a spell of "time slow" on my ass, the effect of the spell is the following: i look up on the clock it says 12:00, and then i look up again it says 12:01 and against it says 12:01:30 and then i look again hoping it would be 2:30am and time for flash bitch slap kwanro's ass but nope 12:01:31.

So out of frustration i open up a bunch of wikipedia pages and link the history of how we came to know this shit together. and then made a blog about my findings. and finally i look up at the clock after i'm done.

12:02

no in all seriousness I am not studying this for a degree, i'm doing this as an interest. Something interest me and i'm ganna find out what it is, i will ask questions, and it just happened that teamliquid have a lot and a lot of smart ppl on it. So instead of call up my old professors 1am in the morning i would ask you guys instead
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
glassmazarin
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden158 Posts
March 31 2010 18:07 GMT
#18
You're welcome
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-31 20:45:04
March 31 2010 20:38 GMT
#19
On April 01 2010 00:22 glassmazarin wrote:
we will arrive at the correct result, accelerating expansion. Thus you get an estimate of how much "negative energy density" (dark energy density) is required compared to the total mass density.

Have a nice day!


Can anyone go into a little more detail on how you estimate the dark energy from the acceleration of the expansion?

Can someone make sense of the following idea?

As the space expansion accelerates, it creates more volume/space, and since energy and matter is conserved does it mean the dark energy density is decreasing? and if the dark energy density is decreasing, why doesn't the acceleration slowing down? instead evidence suggests that universe's acceleration is constant in all directions.

D=M/V
E=MC^2
conservation of energy says energy can't be create nor destroy

There is M stays the same, because E stays constant, and V is increasing which makes D decreases.

Could it be that because gravity is cause by mass and energy? if the density of matters are decreasing the gravity on the region also is decreasing, hence the dark energy have less resistance from the gravity's nature to contract. and it made it easier to accelerate the expansion? then if that's the case it would increase the acceleration instead of constant acceleration.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-01 02:28:54
April 01 2010 02:24 GMT
#20
On April 01 2010 05:38 rei wrote:
if the density of matters are decreasing the gravity on the region also is decreasing, hence the dark energy have less resistance from the gravity's nature to contract. and it made it easier to accelerate the expansion? then if that's the case it would increase the acceleration instead of constant acceleration.

This is correct.
There's a nice metaphor on the video at page 11 of this webpage "an accelerating universe"

The initial matter density of the universe after freezeout was insufficient to slow the acceleration enough so that gravity remained the dominant force. Hence the universe continues to accelerate in its expansion.
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
April 01 2010 02:33 GMT
#21
On April 01 2010 05:38 rei wrote:
Can someone make sense of the following idea?

As the space expansion accelerates, it creates more volume/space, and since energy and matter is conserved does it mean the dark energy density is decreasing? and if the dark energy density is decreasing, why doesn't the acceleration slowing down? instead evidence suggests that universe's acceleration is constant in all directions.

You're thinking of dark energy in conventional terms. It might help to imagine that dark energy is being 'created' in empty space which causes the space around it to expand.
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
SkylineSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States564 Posts
April 01 2010 03:49 GMT
#22
"science is out of reach for 99.99 procent of the people. at the very least theorical physics"

theoretical physics is not out of reach for 99.99% of people.

more like 99.9999% of the people.

it takes a lot of time to make valid arguments about this. I can watch a few documentaries and read hawking's book and say something "intelligent" but I still would have no idea whats going on.
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