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Active: 3659 users

Rant on HBR. - Page 2

Blogs > Raptor[eigen].
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28701 Posts
December 05 2009 21:59 GMT
#21
i think zvp heartbreak is pretty damn zerg favoured
i generally have like 90%+ zvp there going through ladders and only like 60% pvz t.t
Moderator
Raptor[eigen].
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada18 Posts
December 05 2009 22:02 GMT
#22
Hmm. Well I respect and appreciate your insight drone.

If your not busy at the moment, can we play a pvz game on hbr now Drone? Show me how you play has zerg to win on hbr. ~_~
deal
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
December 05 2009 22:24 GMT
#23
ok, we all know it supposed to be Z>P but what DOES make it zerg favored??
Easy third hard fourth seems favorable to me. Only thing that I can think off is that 2 favors sorrounds and backstaps
In the woods, there lurks..
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
December 05 2009 22:29 GMT
#24
On December 06 2009 07:24 Iplaythings wrote:
ok, we all know it supposed to be Z>P but what DOES make it zerg favored??
Easy third hard fourth seems favorable to me. Only thing that I can think off is that 2 favors sorrounds and backstaps

It's easy for the Zerg to deny the Protoss the third, and it's hard for the Protoss to break the Zerg's third. Once the Protoss takes the third it gets hard for the Zerg though.
Oystein
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Norway1602 Posts
December 05 2009 22:30 GMT
#25
HBR is highly Zerg favored. You get 5 bases from defending 2 spots and one of them being a ridge that is a bitch for P to break, also the 2 points you have to defend are close by so you can always move troops fast to the other spot if P decides to attack the other place. Also Drops are insanely strong on this map since P have to move big distances to protect his main or 5th. In general its heaven for a defensive macro oriented Zerg style of play.
God Hates a Coward
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
December 05 2009 22:32 GMT
#26
I hate HBR too. It gives an excuse for people to complain about when they lose not to mention rubbing in the fact that "protoss" is so easy
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
December 05 2009 22:34 GMT
#27
On December 06 2009 06:55 iamtt1 wrote:
contain is useless on hbr because p has easy access to the 2nd exp

Uh... I definitely saw lurker contains on HBR in pro matches, succeeding against the world's best Protoss players. The second expo should be easy to block because Protoss has to move through a tiny little choke to reach it.
My strategy is to fork people.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10011 Posts
December 05 2009 22:37 GMT
#28
almost any build can work once in a while but your not accomplishing much by containg p on hbr
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
asl-ninja
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
78 Posts
December 05 2009 22:41 GMT
#29
mine out the back mineral and run lines in wins most of time for me
Entusman #41 asl-ninja!
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
December 05 2009 22:42 GMT
#30
sounds like the heat of the break ridge is getting to you
asl-ninja
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
78 Posts
December 05 2009 22:42 GMT
#31
o and put lurkers up on the ridges if u want ez wins
Entusman #41 asl-ninja!
lazz
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia3119 Posts
December 05 2009 22:44 GMT
#32
PROTOSS IS SO OVERPOWERED AND GAY AM I RIGHT GUYS
Raptor[eigen].
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada18 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-05 22:47:55
December 05 2009 22:45 GMT
#33
On December 06 2009 07:30 Oystein wrote:
HBR is highly Zerg favored. You get 5 bases from defending 2 spots and one of them being a ridge that is a bitch for P to break, also the 2 points you have to defend are close by so you can always move troops fast to the other spot if P decides to attack the other place. Also Drops are insanely strong on this map since P have to move big distances to protect his main or 5th. In general its heaven for a defensive macro oriented Zerg style of play.


2 big spots, which I meantioned previously. One spot that has two entrances, threw the middle and the side. One of those zerg expansons beside the protoss main. 2 huge spots. Protoss is the aggressor, and uses this very concept to his advantage on this map in mid/late game in my experiences and the vods i have seen. I'm not saying your right im wrong or vice virsa. I'm saying show me how. Show me in a demonstration game on iccup by playing me zvp, or finding a different zerg to play, or a vod of a zvp that does not have zerg getting an advantage in the first 8 minutes. Followed by winning in that way in the mid/late game on hbr.



deal
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10011 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-05 22:56:25
December 05 2009 22:53 GMT
#34
i dunno why you say the spots are big.. thats where you gain your advantage from, the only areas you have to defend are the ramps leading to your 12/6 exp and the area right outside your nat
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Oystein
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Norway1602 Posts
December 05 2009 23:02 GMT
#35
On December 06 2009 07:45 Raptor[eigen]. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2009 07:30 Oystein wrote:
HBR is highly Zerg favored. You get 5 bases from defending 2 spots and one of them being a ridge that is a bitch for P to break, also the 2 points you have to defend are close by so you can always move troops fast to the other spot if P decides to attack the other place. Also Drops are insanely strong on this map since P have to move big distances to protect his main or 5th. In general its heaven for a defensive macro oriented Zerg style of play.


2 big spots, which I meantioned previously. One spot that has two entrances, threw the middle and the side. One of those zerg expansons beside the protoss main. 2 huge spots. Protoss is the aggressor, and uses this very concept to his advantage on this map in mid/late game in my experiences and the vods i have seen. I'm not saying your right im wrong or vice virsa. I'm saying show me how. Show me in a demonstration game on iccup by playing me zvp, or finding a different zerg to play, or a vod of a zvp that does not have zerg getting an advantage in the first 8 minutes. Followed by winning in that way in the mid/late game on hbr.




They are not huge and the one spot you have a ridge helping you tremendously, also that small choke they have to attack through also helps you since they can`t really engage with more than a few units at a time unless they just run in and take tons of lurker damage before attacking. The spot outside your natural you can easily help fortify with adding a few sunks\spores there since you will have creep from your natural there anyway.

If you want an example of defensive macro play there go watch Zero vs Bisu (the queen game, watch how easily he defends Bisus attempts to break any of those spots). Also there is Zero vs Pure if I remember correctly, where he just demolishes Pure with the same kind of defensive macro play that is perfectly suited for this map.
God Hates a Coward
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25986 Posts
December 05 2009 23:20 GMT
#36
zvp is so textbook there. after scourge, get lurkers at 2 spots, hold that for 10 until youve secured your side and move into ultradefiler with drops.
Moderator
NeO)PhOeNiX
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Canada250 Posts
December 05 2009 23:26 GMT
#37
HI RAY (Sorry I cannot offer any sort of technical advice to resolve your zvp issues on HBR.) !!!
SC1: B_Saint[LighT]
Raptor[eigen].
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada18 Posts
December 05 2009 23:28 GMT
#38
On December 06 2009 08:02 Oystein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2009 07:45 Raptor[eigen]. wrote:
On December 06 2009 07:30 Oystein wrote:
HBR is highly Zerg favored. You get 5 bases from defending 2 spots and one of them being a ridge that is a bitch for P to break, also the 2 points you have to defend are close by so you can always move troops fast to the other spot if P decides to attack the other place. Also Drops are insanely strong on this map since P have to move big distances to protect his main or 5th. In general its heaven for a defensive macro oriented Zerg style of play.


2 big spots, which I meantioned previously. One spot that has two entrances, threw the middle and the side. One of those zerg expansons beside the protoss main. 2 huge spots. Protoss is the aggressor, and uses this very concept to his advantage on this map in mid/late game in my experiences and the vods i have seen. I'm not saying your right im wrong or vice virsa. I'm saying show me how. Show me in a demonstration game on iccup by playing me zvp, or finding a different zerg to play, or a vod of a zvp that does not have zerg getting an advantage in the first 8 minutes. Followed by winning in that way in the mid/late game on hbr.




They are not huge and the one spot you have a ridge helping you tremendously, also that small choke they have to attack through also helps you since they can`t really engage with more than a few units at a time unless they just run in and take tons of lurker damage before attacking. The spot outside your natural you can easily help fortify with adding a few sunks\spores there since you will have creep from your natural there anyway.

If you want an example of defensive macro play there go watch Zero vs Bisu (the queen game, watch how easily he defends Bisus attempts to break any of those spots). Also there is Zero vs Pure if I remember correctly, where he just demolishes Pure with the same kind of defensive macro play that is perfectly suited for this map.


Well I just finished watching zero vs bisu. Easily is a strong word, perhaps a little too strong for this game. But anyways, this was a good demonstration, I really enjoyed this vod. Killing off those temps before he got to use any of them at the most important moment except for 1 templar really helped A LOT. That's something I will note! =]


deal
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
December 05 2009 23:28 GMT
#39
On December 06 2009 08:02 Oystein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2009 07:45 Raptor[eigen]. wrote:
On December 06 2009 07:30 Oystein wrote:
HBR is highly Zerg favored. You get 5 bases from defending 2 spots and one of them being a ridge that is a bitch for P to break, also the 2 points you have to defend are close by so you can always move troops fast to the other spot if P decides to attack the other place. Also Drops are insanely strong on this map since P have to move big distances to protect his main or 5th. In general its heaven for a defensive macro oriented Zerg style of play.


2 big spots, which I meantioned previously. One spot that has two entrances, threw the middle and the side. One of those zerg expansons beside the protoss main. 2 huge spots. Protoss is the aggressor, and uses this very concept to his advantage on this map in mid/late game in my experiences and the vods i have seen. I'm not saying your right im wrong or vice virsa. I'm saying show me how. Show me in a demonstration game on iccup by playing me zvp, or finding a different zerg to play, or a vod of a zvp that does not have zerg getting an advantage in the first 8 minutes. Followed by winning in that way in the mid/late game on hbr.




They are not huge and the one spot you have a ridge helping you tremendously, also that small choke they have to attack through also helps you since they can`t really engage with more than a few units at a time unless they just run in and take tons of lurker damage before attacking. The spot outside your natural you can easily help fortify with adding a few sunks\spores there since you will have creep from your natural there anyway.

If you want an example of defensive macro play there go watch Zero vs Bisu (the queen game, watch how easily he defends Bisus attempts to break any of those spots). Also there is Zero vs Pure if I remember correctly, where he just demolishes Pure with the same kind of defensive macro play that is perfectly suited for this map.


hbr zvp is not good for defensive macro play, yeah you can defend 4 gas with 3 chokes but on most 3/4 player maps you can defend it with 2. hbr is mainly just good for aggressive contains with lurkers/hydras since you need map control to expand.
Raptor[eigen].
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada18 Posts
December 05 2009 23:28 GMT
#40
haha sup ken
deal
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