• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:39
CEST 11:39
KST 18:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call7[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!18Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week0Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 Pros React To: First 'Fastest' Map in ASL History New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [ASL22] Ro24 Group E [ASL22] Ro24 Group D [ASL22] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5115 users

Rant on HBR. - Page 4

Blogs > Raptor[eigen].
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Epicfailguy
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Norway893 Posts
December 06 2009 15:19 GMT
#61
ZvP feels really easy on HBR if you ask me, I just lurker contain and autowin.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
December 07 2009 00:17 GMT
#62
On December 06 2009 11:31 Oystein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2009 10:48 iamho wrote:
On December 06 2009 09:02 Oystein wrote:
On December 06 2009 08:28 iamho wrote:
On December 06 2009 08:02 Oystein wrote:
On December 06 2009 07:45 Raptor[eigen]. wrote:
On December 06 2009 07:30 Oystein wrote:
HBR is highly Zerg favored. You get 5 bases from defending 2 spots and one of them being a ridge that is a bitch for P to break, also the 2 points you have to defend are close by so you can always move troops fast to the other spot if P decides to attack the other place. Also Drops are insanely strong on this map since P have to move big distances to protect his main or 5th. In general its heaven for a defensive macro oriented Zerg style of play.


2 big spots, which I meantioned previously. One spot that has two entrances, threw the middle and the side. One of those zerg expansons beside the protoss main. 2 huge spots. Protoss is the aggressor, and uses this very concept to his advantage on this map in mid/late game in my experiences and the vods i have seen. I'm not saying your right im wrong or vice virsa. I'm saying show me how. Show me in a demonstration game on iccup by playing me zvp, or finding a different zerg to play, or a vod of a zvp that does not have zerg getting an advantage in the first 8 minutes. Followed by winning in that way in the mid/late game on hbr.




They are not huge and the one spot you have a ridge helping you tremendously, also that small choke they have to attack through also helps you since they can`t really engage with more than a few units at a time unless they just run in and take tons of lurker damage before attacking. The spot outside your natural you can easily help fortify with adding a few sunks\spores there since you will have creep from your natural there anyway.

If you want an example of defensive macro play there go watch Zero vs Bisu (the queen game, watch how easily he defends Bisus attempts to break any of those spots). Also there is Zero vs Pure if I remember correctly, where he just demolishes Pure with the same kind of defensive macro play that is perfectly suited for this map.


hbr zvp is not good for defensive macro play, yeah you can defend 4 gas with 3 chokes but on most 3/4 player maps you can defend it with 2. hbr is mainly just good for aggressive contains with lurkers/hydras since you need map control to expand.

lol you are clueless, its perfectly suited for defensive macro play (and by defensive I mean take your 4th as soon as you gain map control and then start defending, and you will get some form of map control regardless with what you open with be it mutas, lurkers, hydras etc unless you take some serious damage early on). Its not 3 places you need to defend (unless you are talking about the new one witch nobody plays yet) its 2 spots the ridge covers both entrances to that spot and you can defend 5 bases with 4 gases from 2 spots that is HUGE. You will get early map control pretty much regardless what you open up with, and once you take the expos you start making mass lurkers to hold the 2 spots while you wait for 5base eco to kick in and roll them with ultra\ling\defiler and abuse drops and your greater mobility. If they can`t break any of your 2 choke points within the time you get ultra you should pretty much never lose on hbr.



r u for rela? you can pretty much defend 4 gas on every map with 2 choke points

if you let the zerg play both defensively and have map control at the same time then the problem is you, not the imbalance

Getting 5 bases on 2 choke points with one of them being at a high ground advantage is NOT common lol. Only kind of maps that happens are at special ones like Blue Storm or Andromeda, on normal map you can get 4 bases from 2 chokes but you never get a high ground advantage and a min only on the trade. If you fail to comprehend how big advantage having high ground is in BW I guess there is no sense discussing with you anymore.


It should be added that the two points you're talking about aren't that far apart either, making it easy to simply pick up and move lukers to the right spot for defense. I also find it a really good map for Zerg drops, but not particularly good for Protoss drops. Protoss harrassment options are more limited imo.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
December 07 2009 00:24 GMT
#63
On December 06 2009 13:24 Sadistx wrote:
Now, we've seen all 3 races whine about HBR...

haha balanced for no race
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 2022
Bisu 952
Larva 239
Killer 224
Mind 110
Pusan 72
Jaedong 52
Hm[arnc] 50
Sharp 38
Aegong 33
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 29
Rush 28
Bale 21
NotJumperer 20
yabsab 19
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Shine 11
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1472
olofmeister1075
pashabiceps345
edward56
kRYSTAL_31
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King104
Other Games
singsing1492
ceh9764
WinterStarcraft463
Sick175
crisheroes173
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 46
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH407
• StrangeGG 54
• LUISG 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV296
• lizZardDota2163
League of Legends
• Rush1343
• Stunt564
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
22m
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
1h 22m
PiGosaur Cup
14h 22m
Afreeca Starleague
1d
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
Replay Cast
1d 14h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-24
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
SCTL 2026 Fall
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.