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Chinese traditional characters: worth learning? - Page 3

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peanutter
Profile Joined February 2009
Australia165 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 01:13:29
November 02 2009 01:10 GMT
#41
Being a person who learnt traditional first, I think it is a bit hard to read simplified when so much has been taken out. My gf who learnt simplified first has a much easier time reading traditional though.

Having said that, I think simplified looks ugly as hell but that's just my personal opinion. Traditional will definitely teach you more culturally if you're bothered.

Edit: Also I forgot you'll be able to communicate in writing effectively with anyone since everyone is "supposed" to be able to read traditional.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
November 02 2009 01:39 GMT
#42
Yes of course. And I'm from mainland
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Pieguy314
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada262 Posts
November 02 2009 01:45 GMT
#43
Hi, just to offer my input.
I am a chinese born canadian (in vancouver)
That means my parents use simplified, while my environment around me uses a ton of simplified chinese. As a result, I am quite fluent in both, and really it all depends where you live. If you're living in South China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, you are going to have lots of traditional exposure. However, if you live around north, or east China (besides Fu Jian) you are going to have lots of simplified exposure. I recommend learning both. I personally learnt traditional first, then simplified (although I had about 8 years of simplified, 2 years of traditional). But I enjoy writing traditional characters more because of the way they look and how they are really nice looking. Also, you might want to consider that in the computer age, it doesn't really matter how long it takes to write something, since all you need to type is the pinyin or zhuyin.
asdfasdf
Sad[Panda]
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States458 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 01:58:41
November 02 2009 01:46 GMT
#44
On November 02 2009 08:37 blue_arrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2009 08:31 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
The majority of the contents here are old. You can ask anyone on the street and they can get you way better contents except there is no references. If you can find a less-stupid article out there, let us know.


yeah thats the entire point of not asking random ppl on the street, no references = no credibility on an anonymous internet forum, no matter how seemingly excellent a piece of content you provide, content can always always be fabricated dude

edit: this article isn't complete and absolute bullshit that should be eradicated from the face of the earth, it provides facts and references and an education on the topic, perfection notwithstanding; it has so far done a better job of providing knowledge to us than this thread. so why not build upon it? slamming down the entire article and influencing others to not read it is not the way to go.

also i find this whole ordeal regarding wikipedia contributors' comments incredibly, incredibly ironic


Its hard to reference "facts" when you really dont have any... even the "facts" presented are all opinions to that person as to why they think pro traditional or pro simplified.

Edit: also I think we did a better job debating it here than in there for the facts that by a landslide most people posted traditional first = harder to read simplified, simplified first = easier to read traditional, and that we are generally staying on topic t.t; as apposed to the wiki article where its a he said she said clusterfuck t.t;

Edit2: oh csheep quoted some dude who raped your wiki article and makes this pointless meh w.e xD
( O.O) ("\(t.t )/") ~ I'm just looking for someone to hug
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
November 02 2009 01:52 GMT
#45
Of course this is debatable. But if you want to really understand the art behind the language, traditional is better (In my opinion of course). Because they were all derived from images/hieroglyphics, I feel that knowing the traditional characters is better for that purpose.
OmgIRok
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Taiwan2699 Posts
November 02 2009 02:09 GMT
#46
its hard to say........ one or the other will become obsolete in a few generations because not everyone knows both.... and then it's still hard to say because sometimes knowing traditional characters means higher/upper class social status, whereas simplified brings convenience

"Wanna join my [combo] clan?" "We play turret d competitively"
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 02:19:52
November 02 2009 02:17 GMT
#47
Yes, traditional makes more sense in terms of how the characters are constructed, but simplified is probably the more practical one in most of the areas you'll be going to. If you're learning both, that's fine and good. In my Chinese class right now actually, the teachers teach traditional but we are allowed to use simplified if we want, so I can recognize both fairly easily. The only complaint I have about traditional is that because sometimes they have more strokes, on the computer they are kind of difficult to see and look like blotches of black sometimes. Still, for the cultural understanding of Chinese, learning traditional is fine.

Of course, from my perspective, learning simplified with traditional alongside is extremely easy. I can't always recognize traditional characters that we haven't read yet, but traditional supplementing simplified is pretty easy to do. I recommend you continue simplified and learn the traditional versions for each of the words you study. Also, most of the words are nearly identical with a few less strokes in simplified, and there are many words that are the same in both simplified and traditional, so learning both is not that difficult. Even the word 书, although pretty different in simplified, looks pretty similar to the traditional version.

As well, you'll see a lot of patterns, like the differences in strokes between radicals like in 门, 学, 又, etc - so many of the changes from traditional to simplified are just simplification of radicals (the radical on top of 学 is crazy in traditional o.o).
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
November 02 2009 03:27 GMT
#48
Nice to see so many (proportionally) Taiwanese, Chinese, and HK'ers commenting here ^_^

I would say definitely learn Traditional. Perhaps my perspective on how useful it actually is might be skewed given that I'm from Taiwan and hence knowing Traditional is a must. Personally, I find Traditional easier to read given that the characters are more distinct from each other than they are for many words in Simplified. But Superiorwolf is correct in noting that Simplified is definitely more practical, but if you have the chance to, then do both.

On a related note, for my major I have to take a Chinese Proficiency test and lo and behold, the one needed at the U of M is the HSK, offered by the Chinese government... and hence, it's ONLY Simplified, which really puts me at a disadvantage. Took the mock exam yesterday, and for the life of me couldn't figure out what "书" was.
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
imDerek
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1944 Posts
November 02 2009 03:30 GMT
#49
I love traditional chinese
Least favorite progamers: Leta, Zero, Mind, Shine, free, really <-- newly added
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
November 02 2009 03:55 GMT
#50
traditional looks 24091290129 times better seriously i hate how simplified looks lol.

but if for practical reasons then yea maybe simplifid is better. lol
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21242 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 04:00:17
November 02 2009 03:59 GMT
#51
I never understand why people thought traditional looked better.

Besides, it's a very...subjective measurement, and as such, shouldn't really be used as a reason either for or against the usage of traditional...
TranslatorBaa!
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 04:07:47
November 02 2009 04:07 GMT
#52
The "simplified is corrupting Chinese heritage" argument is bullshit. Foot binding is a heritage, why don't we reinstate that?
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Loser777
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
1931 Posts
November 02 2009 04:14 GMT
#53
Depends on taste, and what materials you want to read. In Southern California, all of the "chinese" newspapers are taiwanese, the radio stations are taiwanese, and 99 Ranch is taiwanese.
So, you can see a lot of traditional.

On the other hand, the big chinese websites, like baidu etc etc will be in simplified.
6581
Retsukage
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1002 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 04:18:40
November 02 2009 04:18 GMT
#54
On a separate but related note, I am currently doing Chinese/Japanese calligraphy in a course in my university. Does anyone have some cool star craft driven phrase I could write out? I mean does anyone know the character for strategy? that kind of thing?
In case anyone happened to be interested here is one character I wrote, and then imposed on a photo of mine.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/-goodmorning-/4067407890/
To change is to improve, to change often is to be perfect - Winston Chruchill
blue_arrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 04:33:10
November 02 2009 04:18 GMT
#55
On November 02 2009 10:46 Sad[Panda] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2009 08:37 blue_arrow wrote:
On November 02 2009 08:31 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
The majority of the contents here are old. You can ask anyone on the street and they can get you way better contents except there is no references. If you can find a less-stupid article out there, let us know.


yeah thats the entire point of not asking random ppl on the street, no references = no credibility on an anonymous internet forum, no matter how seemingly excellent a piece of content you provide, content can always always be fabricated dude

edit: this article isn't complete and absolute bullshit that should be eradicated from the face of the earth, it provides facts and references and an education on the topic, perfection notwithstanding; it has so far done a better job of providing knowledge to us than this thread. so why not build upon it? slamming down the entire article and influencing others to not read it is not the way to go.

also i find this whole ordeal regarding wikipedia contributors' comments incredibly, incredibly ironic


Its hard to reference "facts" when you really dont have any... even the "facts" presented are all opinions to that person as to why they think pro traditional or pro simplified.

Edit: also I think we did a better job debating it here than in there for the facts that by a landslide most people posted traditional first = harder to read simplified, simplified first = easier to read traditional, and that we are generally staying on topic t.t; as apposed to the wiki article where its a he said she said clusterfuck t.t;

Edit2: oh csheep quoted some dude who raped your wiki article and makes this pointless meh w.e xD


umm... you are completely correct my bad your worthiessness
you know what i'm just going to stop here and give up. a big fucking sigh is all i have left to give... =(

On November 02 2009 13:07 writer22816 wrote:
The "simplified is corrupting Chinese heritage" argument is bullshit. Foot binding is a heritage, why don't we reinstate that?


i agree!!! =o =o =o =(
| MLIA | the weather sucks dick here
blue_arrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1971 Posts
November 02 2009 04:28 GMT
#56
On November 02 2009 11:17 Superiorwolf wrote:
Yes, traditional makes more sense in terms of how the characters are constructed, but simplified is probably the more practical one in most of the areas you'll be going to. If you're learning both, that's fine and good. In my Chinese class right now actually, the teachers teach traditional but we are allowed to use simplified if we want, so I can recognize both fairly easily. The only complaint I have about traditional is that because sometimes they have more strokes, on the computer they are kind of difficult to see and look like blotches of black sometimes. Still, for the cultural understanding of Chinese, learning traditional is fine.

Of course, from my perspective, learning simplified with traditional alongside is extremely easy. I can't always recognize traditional characters that we haven't read yet, but traditional supplementing simplified is pretty easy to do. I recommend you continue simplified and learn the traditional versions for each of the words you study. Also, most of the words are nearly identical with a few less strokes in simplified, and there are many words that are the same in both simplified and traditional, so learning both is not that difficult. Even the word 书, although pretty different in simplified, looks pretty similar to the traditional version.

As well, you'll see a lot of patterns, like the differences in strokes between radicals like in 门, 学, 又, etc - so many of the changes from traditional to simplified are just simplification of radicals (the radical on top of 学 is crazy in traditional o.o).


yeah this is like the most sound advice so far, you may as well learn the traditional characters right beside the simpified ones since many times it's basically the radicals that are simplified. over time you will be able to dervive certain traditional characters from simplified and vice versa.
| MLIA | the weather sucks dick here
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
November 02 2009 04:54 GMT
#57
if you want to work in classical translation or do business in taiwan or hongkong learn tradish.
if you plan on living on the mainland then simplified.

i started with tradish since i thought i was going to move to taiwan.
after college i decided to move to beijing instead and started learning the simplified.

its a practical question.
Pieguy314
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada262 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 05:25:05
November 02 2009 05:23 GMT
#58
On November 02 2009 13:18 Retsukage wrote:
On a separate but related note, I am currently doing Chinese/Japanese calligraphy in a course in my university. Does anyone have some cool star craft driven phrase I could write out? I mean does anyone know the character for strategy? that kind of thing?
In case anyone happened to be interested here is one character I wrote, and then imposed on a photo of mine.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/-goodmorning-/4067407890/

life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery"
Simplified: 命的活泼到活到命的整个生命谢到茅盾电池
Traditional: 命的活潑到活到命的整個生命謝到茅盾電池
asdfasdf
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21242 Posts
November 02 2009 05:55 GMT
#59
感谢护盾电池活圆满生活
TranslatorBaa!
Pieguy314
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada262 Posts
November 02 2009 06:06 GMT
#60
On November 02 2009 14:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
感谢护盾电池活圆满生活

not as good cause it makes grammatical sense =P
asdfasdf
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