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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On March 04 2017 01:36 oBlade wrote: You just shouldn't be moderating with this attitude, Drone has much more the right idea with respect to faith in the community and why we get together here. good cop bad cop | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
If you are discussing with someone and they don't see your point and the convo seems to be getting personal, bail out. Let the poster know that you aren't interested in continuing, thank them for the discussion (if you want) and discuss something else. Honestly, it's extremely simple to do. You aren't stuck fighting with a poster that won't get it and have more time to do other things too. | ||
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oBlade
United States5773 Posts
On March 03 2017 12:55 tofucake wrote: get your head out of your ass. that thread is never good isn't a recipe for interacting with the community positively or shepherding things in the right direction. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18133 Posts
On March 04 2017 01:44 BigFan wrote: I don't believe that was tofu's point. I think what he is trying to say was that he believes we're all pretty mature and can avoid all this kind of stuff and attitude. Really, when you make a post, before hitting the post button, go back and read it. If you find you are being too aggressive or insulting, rephrase that part and make sure your point is pretty clear. That's all that needs to be done. If you are discussing with someone and they don't see your point and the convo seems to be getting personal, bail out. Let the poster know that you aren't interested in continuing, thank them for the discussion (if you want) and discuss something else. Honestly, it's extremely simple to do. You aren't stuck fighting with a poster that won't get it and have more time to do other things too. What about if you aren't making a point at all, but just trolling? E.g. On March 04 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote: Long as it wasn't on mail.ru it's all good then. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 04 2017 01:53 Acrofales wrote: What about if you aren't making a point at all, but just trolling? E.g. You mean the type of post that Plansix makes 10 times per day? Or which half a dozen other liberal posters routinely make? | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19162 Posts
On March 04 2017 01:51 oBlade wrote: There's nothing wrong with that part of the point, what I'm saying is the attitude of calling the thread a hellhole, half-joking about closing it forever, talking like this: isn't a recipe for interacting with the community positively or shepherding things in the right direction. I was not joking when I said that thread is awful. It accounts for more mod reports than most other entire forums we have. And it's because nobody is holding themselves accountable. During the election, when we were being very harsh with the actioning, people agreed that it was doing a lot of good. Since we let up a bit and tried to let you guys go back to policing yourselves, it's gone to shit again (if I'm to believe the feedback here). So by evidence supplied by both conservatives and liberals, nobody is able to actually maintain a good thread worth reading. However, I don't have any interest in reading every post and checking sources and trying to figure out tone of voice of posts and actioning things. It's almost as soul crushing as working retail. Nobody is even trying to self police. Everybody antagonizes and pushes others' buttons and then when angry retaliatory posts are made which have little bearing on the actual thread, everyone gets mad. All of you need to take responsibility for your own shitposting if you want other people to stop shitposting. So, to recap: 1. The conservatives say the liberals suck at posting in US Politics 2. The liberals say the conservatives suck at posting in US Politics 3. I say everyone sucks at posting in US Politics 4. Stop sucking at posting in US Politics | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 04 2017 01:20 Acrofales wrote: Please give an example of a liberal post which according to you crossed the line, but wasn't actioned, despite being reported. Also, RiK is still around, as is SoSexy. Plenty of opportunity for rightwing shitposting. I haven't reported anything for weeks, so I couldn't give you a current, concrete example. But here's something from several weeks ago. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18133 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:08 LegalLord wrote: Scratching my head trying to figure out what you think is wrong with that one. Well, I'm still trying to figure out whether you are tongue-in-cheek agreeing with him and poking fun at anybody saying AOL is better than a private server. Or whether you are disagreeing and making fun of him. I initially thought the former. But in either case, this could very easily classify as a "low content post", but in the latter you might also be interpreted as breaking thread rules due to not being evocative, but mean. I don't think under current thread rules it is worth reporting or warning over. I just wondered what BigFan thought of such posts. Of which there have been quite a few lately (and I have made some): they are meant to be primarily funny, rather than primarily discuss anything or make a point. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Only reason to single out that post, though, is airing of grievances. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18133 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote: I haven't reported anything for weeks, so I couldn't give you a current, concrete example. But here's something from several weeks ago. Both look actionable to me. Presumably the first one wasn't actioned because it wasn't reported? The second one Danglars reported and it was actioned. What exactly is the problem (unless the first one was indeed reported, but not actioned). I have so far reported a couple of posts in the expectation that they would not get actioned despite my own very clear opinion that they were actionable and every single one of them has gotten actioned. So either your standards are higher than mine (and you'd need better evidence than those 2 posts, because particularly the former I think is eminently actionable and the latter was actioned), or you're just not using the report button, as you freely admit. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18133 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:23 LegalLord wrote: We are playing a game of "pin the cliche on a Trump surrogate." Might as well add Russian hackers into the mix. Only reason to single out that post, though, is airing of grievances. No. I singled out that post because it was one I had read 10 seconds before I saw BigFan's message. The world does not revolve around you (or Russia, for that matter). You just said yourself that you made the post with the primary aim of being funny, and not contributing to any discussion. So I guess my question to BigFan stands. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:24 Acrofales wrote: Both look actionable to me. Presumably the first one wasn't actioned because it wasn't reported? The second one Danglars reported and it was actioned. What exactly is the problem (unless the first one was indeed reported, but not actioned). I have so far reported a couple of posts in the expectation that they would not get actioned despite my own very clear opinion that they were actionable and every single one of them has gotten actioned. So either your standards are higher than mine (and you'd need better evidence than those 2 posts, because particularly the former I think is eminently actionable and the latter was actioned), or you're just not using the report button, as you freely admit. I reported the first one when it was made. The second one wasn't actioned until I said something after waiting for it to be actioned. Check the timestamps. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
in matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing. | ||
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:14 tofucake wrote: I was not joking when I said that thread is awful. It accounts for more mod reports than most other entire forums we have. And it's because nobody is holding themselves accountable. During the election, when we were being very harsh with the actioning, people agreed that it was doing a lot of good. Since we let up a bit and tried to let you guys go back to policing yourselves, it's gone to shit again (if I'm to believe the feedback here). So by evidence supplied by both conservatives and liberals, nobody is able to actually maintain a good thread worth reading. However, I don't have any interest in reading every post and checking sources and trying to figure out tone of voice of posts and actioning things. It's almost as soul crushing as working retail. Nobody is even trying to self police. Everybody antagonizes and pushes others' buttons and then when angry retaliatory posts are made which have little bearing on the actual thread, everyone gets mad. All of you need to take responsibility for your own shitposting if you want other people to stop shitposting. So, to recap: 1. The conservatives say the liberals suck at posting in US Politics 2. The liberals say the conservatives suck at posting in US Politics 3. I say everyone sucks at posting in US Politics 4. Stop sucking at posting in US Politics If you read the thread guidelines in the OP, it gives the impression that the thread is supposed to be a place where people introduce topics of conversation about US politics and then have an impersonal, data-driven discussion about them. And yet, it always seems to get personal, very quickly. Hell, sometimes it seems like making it personal is almost a rhetorical strategy at this point (look at this guy with his ad hominem shitpost, clearly his criticism of my point is useless and irrelevant). Idk how to stop that though. Maybe locking the thread for a week and then moderating harshly is the right approach. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:30 Acrofales wrote: No. I singled out that post because it was one I had read 10 seconds before I saw BigFan's message. The world does not revolve around you (or Russia, for that matter). You just said yourself that you made the post with the primary aim of being funny, and not contributing to any discussion. So I guess my question to BigFan stands. You singled out that post and called it trolling. Being "humorous" and "trolling" aren't very similar statements. And of course there is the fact that you've been following me around and making low-content side commentary a fair bit, which does suggest that an "airing of grievances" motivation is a perfectly reasonable thing to suspect. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:44 RuiBarbO wrote: If you read the thread guidelines in the OP, it gives the impression that the thread is supposed to be a place where people introduce topics of conversation about US politics and then have an impersonal, data-driven discussion about them. And yet, it always seems to get personal, very quickly. Hell, sometimes it seems like making it personal is almost a rhetorical strategy at this point (look at this guy with his ad hominem shitpost, clearly his criticism of my point is useless and irrelevant). Idk how to stop that though. Maybe locking the thread for a week and then moderating harshly is the right approach. No, this just reflects the reality of how divided the nature of political discourse is right now. Not much you can do when a lot of people simply hate each other that badly. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:11 xDaunt wrote: You mean the type of post that Plansix makes 10 times per day? Or which half a dozen other liberal posters routinely make? Bottom line is, the reporting button itself is moderated by being taken away if enough don't get actioned. So when a dozen slip by from famous liberal shitposters for every snide one liner hurled back, that's an ad hoc thread guideline: nobody's going to report the verbal diarrhea, and people are less likely to make substantial posts when it's guaranteed you will wade through five responses amounting to septic spills to hunt for someone that read and responded. Maybe the thread deserves a week of less restraint from centrists and right-wing posters (like xDaunt's demonstration-if both sides shitposted like the bottom-5 of the left) to illustrate the point ahead of a thread lock. Because some people can't see since they politically agree with the shitposters politics and overlook the shitpost. And a regular guy like TheLordofAwesome comes in and wonders what all the shit is. Yeah, it's mostly a one way street by reason of limited reporting counts of borderline cases and thread tradition, instigation included. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18133 Posts
On March 04 2017 02:45 LegalLord wrote: You singled out that post and called it trolling. Being "humorous" and "trolling" aren't very similar statements. And of course there is the fact that you've been following me around and making low-content side commentary a fair bit, which does suggest that an "airing of grievances" motivation is a perfectly reasonable thing to suspect. Yup. Following you around. Lol. Conceited much? As for "low-content side commentary", if you stopped making so many bad posts (bad as in wrong, not bad as in need moderating), maybe people would stop responding. Reminds me of a week ago when bardtown was complaining that mythical keeps responding to him. At least be happy I still think you're worth responding too. I avoid some posters. | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
On March 04 2017 01:20 Acrofales wrote: Please give an example of a liberal post which according to you crossed the line, but wasn't actioned, despite being reported. Also, RiK is still around, as is SoSexy. Plenty of opportunity for rightwing shitposting. The time I've been banned are from reasons such as "Stop with the hyperbole and derailing and unsourced claims." But users like Plansix, Biff the Understudy goes around calling Pence stupid as an one liner and Biff Understudy just say "Oh yeah we've established that already." without anything to back them up. Then he continues on with the usual insult like: "Looks like a weird monk with no charisma and 1920's opinion was an efficient counterweight to the Donald." And those users end up getting away with it without even a warning. The mods are clearly biased. | ||
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