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On March 27 2018 05:17 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:06 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:59 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 04:57 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:53 Sermokala wrote:
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum. "gee we see a lot of people disagree with you and wrongly report you so we're just going to go ahead and ban you"
Its not enough that the ban explicitly states that the reporters are wrong. Its not enough that its clearly politically targeted. Its not enough that its apparently only being done to improve the report rates of the people that he puts hours and hours into responding to despite their often rabid fascination with finding even the smallest issues and refusing to move off their sacred points they find comfort in.
I mean is this seriously the thread now? We care more about people who reported wrongly then people who deliver content?
I always worried about the day I'd have to stop posting because of my political beliefs. Never thought I'd see the day though. where does the ban explicitly state that? I don't recall the text of the ban explanation being provided to us at all. From: Seeker TL Staff [ 30309 posts | Profile ]
Subject: Temporary Ban from US Politics Mega-thread
Date: 3/26/18 05:15
Hi Danglars.
The mods have noticed that you have been getting reported rather frequently for your posts in the US Politics Mega-thread as of late. After some internal mod discussion, we've decided to temporarily remove your access to the US Politics Mega-thread. You will be notified when your access has been given back.
-Seeker I don't see any explicit statement there that the reports were correct or incorrect. it could be interpreted to mean that some of the reports were incorrect, and some were correct; and rather than issue a series of warnings on several posts, they chose to just use a temp ban. at any rate, it's not an EXPLICIT statement that the reporters were incorrect. implicit maybe, but not explicit. while it's poor judicial process, that's to be expected, as my push for a better judicial process has not had much support, and proper processes tend to be time consuming. I could understand at the very least that they wanted to do an experiment to see if Danglers was a positive influence on the thread or a negative influence. I could understand that they found a string of posts that were borderline and they wanted to just cool it before everyone went over the line and a time out was the best option decided. But the Idea that his temp ban from the thread is solely because he was wrongly reported is just unacceptable and should be unacceptable by anyone in the thread who believes that they can express their political views without being punished for them. Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:16 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2018 05:06 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 05:03 Plansix wrote:
I don’t consider myself to be unreasonable and I try to own up to my bullshit, liberal or otherwise. But when cross the line I’m either drinking and posting or letting my feeling get the better of me.
Danglars constant passive aggressive self righteousness tone is why he gets such a strong response. I’m of the opinion it is intentional, but the mods have never really done anything. But maybe now posters are more inclined to report people who post in that fashion since the new thread started.
It’s a temp ban, it’s fine. Happens to the best of us. Gee I don't know maybe there was something the moderation could do before a temp ban to let him know that hes been dangerously reported wrongly in the thread. Like warning him that his unpopularity was leading to him being reported excessively and that they were going to ban him if the reporting continued. I mean do me and xdaunt have to worry about our posts being reported too many times that we're going to be auctioned as well? Normally my ass just got banned when I did dumb shit. Then I was left with self reflection on the error of my ways, which normally was because I decided to tell someone how dumb they were. We are all grownups here. Danglars knowns exactly why he got all those reports and other conservatives did not. So you support banning people from the thread for being reported wrongly? I get that Danglers isn't the best reporter but he at least tries to respond to as many people as possible. That is an unreasonable ask for how people are hyenas on him and refuse to debate with anyone else in the thread. I've put out reasonable and moderate arguments and yet they never get traction from the same people who are constantly attacking Danglers and constantly reporting him probably.
I thought I was overwhelming clear that I did not believe the number of reports was the reasoning. To be blunt: He posts like a passive aggressive asshole to provoke a response and then complains about the response.
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United Kingdom10015 Posts
On March 27 2018 05:21 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:06 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:59 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 04:57 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:53 Sermokala wrote:
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum. "gee we see a lot of people disagree with you and wrongly report you so we're just going to go ahead and ban you"
Its not enough that the ban explicitly states that the reporters are wrong. Its not enough that its clearly politically targeted. Its not enough that its apparently only being done to improve the report rates of the people that he puts hours and hours into responding to despite their often rabid fascination with finding even the smallest issues and refusing to move off their sacred points they find comfort in.
I mean is this seriously the thread now? We care more about people who reported wrongly then people who deliver content?
I always worried about the day I'd have to stop posting because of my political beliefs. Never thought I'd see the day though. where does the ban explicitly state that? I don't recall the text of the ban explanation being provided to us at all. From: Seeker TL Staff [ 30309 posts | Profile ]
Subject: Temporary Ban from US Politics Mega-thread
Date: 3/26/18 05:15
Hi Danglars.
The mods have noticed that you have been getting reported rather frequently for your posts in the US Politics Mega-thread as of late. After some internal mod discussion, we've decided to temporarily remove your access to the US Politics Mega-thread. You will be notified when your access has been given back.
-Seeker I don't see any explicit statement there that the reports were correct or incorrect. it could be interpreted to mean that some of the reports were incorrect, and some were correct; and rather than issue a series of warnings on several posts, they chose to just use a temp ban. at any rate, it's not an EXPLICIT statement that the reporters were incorrect. implicit maybe, but not explicit. while it's poor judicial process, that's to be expected, as my push for a better judicial process has not had much support, and proper processes tend to be time consuming. Your push for a better judicial process has not had much support? I literally opened up a thread dedicated to discussing just the moderation for the US Politics Mega-thread and other threads in "General" in the staff forums because of our conversation. And that's how this new thread and our new rules and guidelines got implemented. The thread was opened up in January, and we have not stopped discussing revising our moderation policies since.
Hi Seeker.
Can I make the suggestion that although danglars can be obnoxious sometimes the thread needs someone posting regularly who gets everyone examining their own views, and that the reason his conversations get so bad tempered is more to do with people not enjoying the process of being made to think carefully about whether or not their views make sense than it has to do with danglars' posting style.
I myself have had big rows with him before but the thread would be worse without him there, as can be seen in the UK politics since a certain divisive poster got banned.
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TLADT24920 Posts
While I was not involved in this, I'm having a chuckle whenever I see someone get mad at the number of reports. I'm pretty certain that there's a lot more to it than that.
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People can question their own views on their own. Some random person on the internet isn’t going to push anyone across that line. Especially not someone who spends a lot of time talking down to people. We have plenty of well spoken conservatives in the politicos threat who manage to avoid the passive aggressive tone.
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On March 27 2018 05:21 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:06 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:59 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 04:57 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:53 Sermokala wrote:
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum. "gee we see a lot of people disagree with you and wrongly report you so we're just going to go ahead and ban you"
Its not enough that the ban explicitly states that the reporters are wrong. Its not enough that its clearly politically targeted. Its not enough that its apparently only being done to improve the report rates of the people that he puts hours and hours into responding to despite their often rabid fascination with finding even the smallest issues and refusing to move off their sacred points they find comfort in.
I mean is this seriously the thread now? We care more about people who reported wrongly then people who deliver content?
I always worried about the day I'd have to stop posting because of my political beliefs. Never thought I'd see the day though. where does the ban explicitly state that? I don't recall the text of the ban explanation being provided to us at all. From: Seeker TL Staff [ 30309 posts | Profile ]
Subject: Temporary Ban from US Politics Mega-thread
Date: 3/26/18 05:15
Hi Danglars.
The mods have noticed that you have been getting reported rather frequently for your posts in the US Politics Mega-thread as of late. After some internal mod discussion, we've decided to temporarily remove your access to the US Politics Mega-thread. You will be notified when your access has been given back.
-Seeker I don't see any explicit statement there that the reports were correct or incorrect. it could be interpreted to mean that some of the reports were incorrect, and some were correct; and rather than issue a series of warnings on several posts, they chose to just use a temp ban. at any rate, it's not an EXPLICIT statement that the reporters were incorrect. implicit maybe, but not explicit. while it's poor judicial process, that's to be expected, as my push for a better judicial process has not had much support, and proper processes tend to be time consuming. Your push for a better judicial process has not had much support? I literally opened up a thread dedicated to discussing just the moderation for the US Politics Mega-thread and other threads in "General" in the staff forums because of our conversation. And that's how this new thread and our new rules and guidelines got implemented. The thread was opened up in January, and we have not stopped discussing revising our moderation policies since.
I meant support from the the community (particularly the community of thread-users, as opposed to mods)
also, while what you're doing now is helpful, and I do appreciate the effort, it's not so much an improvement of judicial process, as evinced by the complaints in this thread, wherein several good complaints of due process are raised. there's a difference between higher standards, and the process by which those standards are applied. you've adjusted the standards in a way I support, but the underlying process is still pretty similar.
as to your edit, which was after i'd already written this; I'm a critic by nature, i'm critical of myself and others. my self-control is fine enough, and I do work on it. and it's fine to lay blame where warranted.
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No reasonably honest person is going to buy the argument that Danglars is a qualitatively worse poster than the majority of participants in the thread.
And this idea that removing Danglars will get rid of the "belligerence" in the political threads is one of the dumbest "no shit, Sherlock" ideas that I have ever seen. When you turn the thread into a giant circle jerk, of course the "belligerence" is going to disappear!
Christ, you mods should just come out and say that you don't want to deal with moderating the US politics thread anymore so you'd rather kill it.
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On March 27 2018 05:24 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:17 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 05:06 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:59 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 04:57 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:53 Sermokala wrote:
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum. "gee we see a lot of people disagree with you and wrongly report you so we're just going to go ahead and ban you"
Its not enough that the ban explicitly states that the reporters are wrong. Its not enough that its clearly politically targeted. Its not enough that its apparently only being done to improve the report rates of the people that he puts hours and hours into responding to despite their often rabid fascination with finding even the smallest issues and refusing to move off their sacred points they find comfort in.
I mean is this seriously the thread now? We care more about people who reported wrongly then people who deliver content?
I always worried about the day I'd have to stop posting because of my political beliefs. Never thought I'd see the day though. where does the ban explicitly state that? I don't recall the text of the ban explanation being provided to us at all. From: Seeker TL Staff [ 30309 posts | Profile ]
Subject: Temporary Ban from US Politics Mega-thread
Date: 3/26/18 05:15
Hi Danglars.
The mods have noticed that you have been getting reported rather frequently for your posts in the US Politics Mega-thread as of late. After some internal mod discussion, we've decided to temporarily remove your access to the US Politics Mega-thread. You will be notified when your access has been given back.
-Seeker I don't see any explicit statement there that the reports were correct or incorrect. it could be interpreted to mean that some of the reports were incorrect, and some were correct; and rather than issue a series of warnings on several posts, they chose to just use a temp ban. at any rate, it's not an EXPLICIT statement that the reporters were incorrect. implicit maybe, but not explicit. while it's poor judicial process, that's to be expected, as my push for a better judicial process has not had much support, and proper processes tend to be time consuming. I could understand at the very least that they wanted to do an experiment to see if Danglers was a positive influence on the thread or a negative influence. I could understand that they found a string of posts that were borderline and they wanted to just cool it before everyone went over the line and a time out was the best option decided. But the Idea that his temp ban from the thread is solely because he was wrongly reported is just unacceptable and should be unacceptable by anyone in the thread who believes that they can express their political views without being punished for them. On March 27 2018 05:16 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2018 05:06 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 05:03 Plansix wrote:
I don’t consider myself to be unreasonable and I try to own up to my bullshit, liberal or otherwise. But when cross the line I’m either drinking and posting or letting my feeling get the better of me.
Danglars constant passive aggressive self righteousness tone is why he gets such a strong response. I’m of the opinion it is intentional, but the mods have never really done anything. But maybe now posters are more inclined to report people who post in that fashion since the new thread started.
It’s a temp ban, it’s fine. Happens to the best of us. Gee I don't know maybe there was something the moderation could do before a temp ban to let him know that hes been dangerously reported wrongly in the thread. Like warning him that his unpopularity was leading to him being reported excessively and that they were going to ban him if the reporting continued. I mean do me and xdaunt have to worry about our posts being reported too many times that we're going to be auctioned as well? Normally my ass just got banned when I did dumb shit. Then I was left with self reflection on the error of my ways, which normally was because I decided to tell someone how dumb they were. We are all grownups here. Danglars knowns exactly why he got all those reports and other conservatives did not. So you support banning people from the thread for being reported wrongly? I get that Danglers isn't the best reporter but he at least tries to respond to as many people as possible. That is an unreasonable ask for how people are hyenas on him and refuse to debate with anyone else in the thread. I've put out reasonable and moderate arguments and yet they never get traction from the same people who are constantly attacking Danglers and constantly reporting him probably. From our mod thread: Show nested quote +You remove Danglars and all politics threads in the General forum will probably improve. There will still be a lot of white noise but you'd get rid of a lot of the belligerence we're seeing right now. A temp threadban should prove this theory right or wrong. So, yes. You're right. We want to see what happens.
Then have the report saying that or have someone say that in the thread were people are obviously going to go to complain about this. I don't get why the bullied kid is the one that needs to be punished according to the discussion but if there is a discussion about how to make the thread better we'd all feel better about it.
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United Kingdom10015 Posts
On March 27 2018 05:30 Plansix wrote:
People can question their own views on their own. Some random person on the internet isn’t going to push anyone across that line. Especially not someone who spends a lot of time talking down to people. We have plenty of well spoken conservatives in the politicos threat who manage to avoid the passive aggressive tone.
Yeah danglars can be annoying but I'm genuinely of the opinion that when everyone basically agrees there's no need for a conversation to last more than 2 or 3 posts before everything that can be said will be.
What's the point of a discussion thread on a forum where the discussion stays respectful purely because there is no conflict?
I mean your basic point is that the US politics thread isn't really for discussion but just a place for people to fart their opinions into the ether obliviously.
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On March 27 2018 05:30 Plansix wrote:
People can question their own views on their own. Some random person on the internet isn’t going to push anyone across that line. Especially not someone who spends a lot of time talking down to people. We have plenty of well spoken conservatives in the politicos threat who manage to avoid the passive aggressive tone.
I'm inclined to disagree with that for obvious reasons 
But Danglars seems provocative because he's trying to respond with similar language to that often used to describe conservatives.
Occasionally he's not all wrong about what you guys are doing but I gathered we were aiming for a generally better tone in the new thread so I approve in general but one of the liberals that was arguing with him should probably be wrist slapped too.
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2774 Posts
On March 27 2018 05:32 xDaunt wrote:
No reasonably honest person is going to buy the argument that Danglars is a qualitatively worse poster than the majority of participants in the thread.
And this idea that removing Danglars will get rid of the "belligerence" in the political threads is one of the dumbest "no shit, Sherlock" ideas that I have ever seen. When you turn the thread into a giant circle jerk, of course the "belligerence" is going to disappear!
Christ, you mods should just come out and say that you don't want to deal with moderating the US politics thread anymore so you'd rather kill it.
You can have opposing views without being a dickhead. Bluntly put.
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On March 27 2018 05:37 Nixer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:32 xDaunt wrote:
No reasonably honest person is going to buy the argument that Danglars is a qualitatively worse poster than the majority of participants in the thread.
And this idea that removing Danglars will get rid of the "belligerence" in the political threads is one of the dumbest "no shit, Sherlock" ideas that I have ever seen. When you turn the thread into a giant circle jerk, of course the "belligerence" is going to disappear!
Christ, you mods should just come out and say that you don't want to deal with moderating the US politics thread anymore so you'd rather kill it. You can have opposing views without being a dickhead. Bluntly put.
It would be great if that was applied to everyone in the thread bluntly put.
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On March 27 2018 05:35 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:30 Plansix wrote:
People can question their own views on their own. Some random person on the internet isn’t going to push anyone across that line. Especially not someone who spends a lot of time talking down to people. We have plenty of well spoken conservatives in the politicos threat who manage to avoid the passive aggressive tone. Yeah danglars can be annoying but I'm genuinely of the opinion that when everyone basically agrees there's no need for a conversation to last more than 2 or 3 posts before everything that can be said will be. What's the point of a discussion thread on a forum where the discussion stays respectful purely because there is no conflict? I mean your basic point is that the US politics thread isn't really for discussion but just a place for people to fart their opinions into the ether obliviously.
We have plenty of interesting discussions about a number of topics. From guns to prison reform. We have even had some productive discussions on racism. None of those required a devils advocate.
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Far, far more posters have been actioned for a post responding to Danglars than Danglars or any other regular conservative poster has been actioned.
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United Kingdom10015 Posts
On March 27 2018 05:37 Nixer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:32 xDaunt wrote:
No reasonably honest person is going to buy the argument that Danglars is a qualitatively worse poster than the majority of participants in the thread.
And this idea that removing Danglars will get rid of the "belligerence" in the political threads is one of the dumbest "no shit, Sherlock" ideas that I have ever seen. When you turn the thread into a giant circle jerk, of course the "belligerence" is going to disappear!
Christ, you mods should just come out and say that you don't want to deal with moderating the US politics thread anymore so you'd rather kill it. You can have opposing views without being a dickhead. Bluntly put.
I think one of the reasons that some posters,myself included, see this as harsh on danglars is that there is context here that is very important:
If there's a bad argument in the thread, danglars will almost always be involved. This is because he is putting forward opinions that are held by maybe 2 or 3 people in the thread, whereas the people arguing with him are normally in a huge crowd.
That crowd, taken as a whole, is far worse behaved than danglars but there is no way of punishing 15 posters all at once whereas just banning danglars is easy. He's basically (indirectly) been bullied off the thread.
I'm left wondering who would have got banned if instead of all of those posters reporting danglars, he had reported all of the posters who had become aggressive with him. I get the feeling the result would have been the same.
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On March 27 2018 05:37 Nixer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:32 xDaunt wrote:
No reasonably honest person is going to buy the argument that Danglars is a qualitatively worse poster than the majority of participants in the thread.
And this idea that removing Danglars will get rid of the "belligerence" in the political threads is one of the dumbest "no shit, Sherlock" ideas that I have ever seen. When you turn the thread into a giant circle jerk, of course the "belligerence" is going to disappear!
Christ, you mods should just come out and say that you don't want to deal with moderating the US politics thread anymore so you'd rather kill it. You can have opposing views without being a dickhead. Bluntly put.
No one disagrees with that proposition. But are you really going to argue that Danglars is the worst offender when it comes to being a dickhead in the thread? I wouldn't even put him in the 50% of dickheads in the thread, particularly given the amount of incoming that he has to deal with.
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On March 27 2018 05:24 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:17 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 05:06 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:59 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 04:57 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:53 Sermokala wrote:
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum. "gee we see a lot of people disagree with you and wrongly report you so we're just going to go ahead and ban you"
Its not enough that the ban explicitly states that the reporters are wrong. Its not enough that its clearly politically targeted. Its not enough that its apparently only being done to improve the report rates of the people that he puts hours and hours into responding to despite their often rabid fascination with finding even the smallest issues and refusing to move off their sacred points they find comfort in.
I mean is this seriously the thread now? We care more about people who reported wrongly then people who deliver content?
I always worried about the day I'd have to stop posting because of my political beliefs. Never thought I'd see the day though. where does the ban explicitly state that? I don't recall the text of the ban explanation being provided to us at all. From: Seeker TL Staff [ 30309 posts | Profile ]
Subject: Temporary Ban from US Politics Mega-thread
Date: 3/26/18 05:15
Hi Danglars.
The mods have noticed that you have been getting reported rather frequently for your posts in the US Politics Mega-thread as of late. After some internal mod discussion, we've decided to temporarily remove your access to the US Politics Mega-thread. You will be notified when your access has been given back.
-Seeker I don't see any explicit statement there that the reports were correct or incorrect. it could be interpreted to mean that some of the reports were incorrect, and some were correct; and rather than issue a series of warnings on several posts, they chose to just use a temp ban. at any rate, it's not an EXPLICIT statement that the reporters were incorrect. implicit maybe, but not explicit. while it's poor judicial process, that's to be expected, as my push for a better judicial process has not had much support, and proper processes tend to be time consuming. I could understand at the very least that they wanted to do an experiment to see if Danglers was a positive influence on the thread or a negative influence. I could understand that they found a string of posts that were borderline and they wanted to just cool it before everyone went over the line and a time out was the best option decided. But the Idea that his temp ban from the thread is solely because he was wrongly reported is just unacceptable and should be unacceptable by anyone in the thread who believes that they can express their political views without being punished for them. On March 27 2018 05:16 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2018 05:06 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 05:03 Plansix wrote:
I don’t consider myself to be unreasonable and I try to own up to my bullshit, liberal or otherwise. But when cross the line I’m either drinking and posting or letting my feeling get the better of me.
Danglars constant passive aggressive self righteousness tone is why he gets such a strong response. I’m of the opinion it is intentional, but the mods have never really done anything. But maybe now posters are more inclined to report people who post in that fashion since the new thread started.
It’s a temp ban, it’s fine. Happens to the best of us. Gee I don't know maybe there was something the moderation could do before a temp ban to let him know that hes been dangerously reported wrongly in the thread. Like warning him that his unpopularity was leading to him being reported excessively and that they were going to ban him if the reporting continued. I mean do me and xdaunt have to worry about our posts being reported too many times that we're going to be auctioned as well? Normally my ass just got banned when I did dumb shit. Then I was left with self reflection on the error of my ways, which normally was because I decided to tell someone how dumb they were. We are all grownups here. Danglars knowns exactly why he got all those reports and other conservatives did not. So you support banning people from the thread for being reported wrongly? I get that Danglers isn't the best reporter but he at least tries to respond to as many people as possible. That is an unreasonable ask for how people are hyenas on him and refuse to debate with anyone else in the thread. I've put out reasonable and moderate arguments and yet they never get traction from the same people who are constantly attacking Danglers and constantly reporting him probably. From our mod thread: Show nested quote +You remove Danglars and all politics threads in the General forum will probably improve. There will still be a lot of white noise but you'd get rid of a lot of the belligerence we're seeing right now. A temp threadban should prove this theory right or wrong. So, yes. You're right. We want to see what happens.
From what I saw (disclaimer: I didn't read every word of the exchange) people were piling on Danglars without addressing his actual argument which was essentially correct:
When Constitutional rights conflict (in this case the cake maker's right to free speech, and the customers' equal protection rights) the court compares the parties' interests and determines which are easier to accommodate without creating an undue burden on the other party.
Also I'd still like a response to this:
On March 26 2018 22:25 Mercy13 wrote:Why was this post not actioned? Show nested quote +On March 25 2018 21:26 Excludos wrote:
Again guys, I must reiterate. Danglar is always going to be Danglar. The best ways to deal with his views is to not engage with them. If you find it ridiculous, then stop entertaining them. This thread is consistently derailed by one person and everyone who answers him. I tried to report it but I got to it too late. I'm on board with tightening the posting standards, but it seems like substance-less personal attacks like this are more noxious to discussion than posting articles without comment.
I'll drop it if the mods still don't want to respond, but it's tough to blame Danglars for being aggressive when people are posting stuff like that regularly...
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On March 27 2018 05:41 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:37 Nixer wrote:On March 27 2018 05:32 xDaunt wrote:
No reasonably honest person is going to buy the argument that Danglars is a qualitatively worse poster than the majority of participants in the thread.
And this idea that removing Danglars will get rid of the "belligerence" in the political threads is one of the dumbest "no shit, Sherlock" ideas that I have ever seen. When you turn the thread into a giant circle jerk, of course the "belligerence" is going to disappear!
Christ, you mods should just come out and say that you don't want to deal with moderating the US politics thread anymore so you'd rather kill it. You can have opposing views without being a dickhead. Bluntly put. I think one of the reasons that some posters,myself included, see this as harsh on danglars is that there is context here that is very important: If there's a bad argument in the thread, danglars will almost always be involved. This is because he is putting forward opinions that are held by maybe 2 or 3 people in the thread, whereas the people arguing with him are normally in a huge crowd. That crowd, taken as a whole, is far worse behaved than danglars but there is no way of punishing 15 posters all at once whereas just banning danglars is easy. He's basically (indirectly) been bullied off the thread. I'm left wondering who would have got banned if instead of all of those posters reporting danglars, he had reported all of the posters who had become aggressive with him. I get the feeling the result would have been the same.
Because he argues like an asshole and doesn’t listen to people. The last time I argued with them I agreed he was right, but also pointed out that no one in the thread was talking about what he was objecting to. He ignored what I said and continued to regurgitate this talking points, like I had never said I agreed with him. There are times I believe he doesn’t even read what people are posting in response to him.
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United Kingdom10015 Posts
On March 27 2018 05:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:41 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 27 2018 05:37 Nixer wrote:On March 27 2018 05:32 xDaunt wrote:
No reasonably honest person is going to buy the argument that Danglars is a qualitatively worse poster than the majority of participants in the thread.
And this idea that removing Danglars will get rid of the "belligerence" in the political threads is one of the dumbest "no shit, Sherlock" ideas that I have ever seen. When you turn the thread into a giant circle jerk, of course the "belligerence" is going to disappear!
Christ, you mods should just come out and say that you don't want to deal with moderating the US politics thread anymore so you'd rather kill it. You can have opposing views without being a dickhead. Bluntly put. I think one of the reasons that some posters,myself included, see this as harsh on danglars is that there is context here that is very important: If there's a bad argument in the thread, danglars will almost always be involved. This is because he is putting forward opinions that are held by maybe 2 or 3 people in the thread, whereas the people arguing with him are normally in a huge crowd. That crowd, taken as a whole, is far worse behaved than danglars but there is no way of punishing 15 posters all at once whereas just banning danglars is easy. He's basically (indirectly) been bullied off the thread. I'm left wondering who would have got banned if instead of all of those posters reporting danglars, he had reported all of the posters who had become aggressive with him. I get the feeling the result would have been the same. Because he argues like an asshole and doesn’t listen to people. The last time I argued with them I agreed he was right, but also pointed out that no one in the thread was talking about what he was objecting to. He ignored what I said and continued to regurgitate this talking points, like I had never said I agreed with him. There are times I believe he doesn’t even read what people are posting in response to him.
Yeah this happens I'm not going to deny it. I've come across several posters who's regular posting style is worse than his, though, and nothing happens.
I really think the only reason that its so noticeable with danglars is that he is constantly at odds with the majority of the posters in the thread, and that in itself isn't worthy of a ban IMHO.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37120 Posts
On March 27 2018 05:42 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2018 05:24 Seeker wrote:On March 27 2018 05:17 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 05:06 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:59 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 04:57 zlefin wrote:On March 27 2018 04:53 Sermokala wrote:
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum. "gee we see a lot of people disagree with you and wrongly report you so we're just going to go ahead and ban you"
Its not enough that the ban explicitly states that the reporters are wrong. Its not enough that its clearly politically targeted. Its not enough that its apparently only being done to improve the report rates of the people that he puts hours and hours into responding to despite their often rabid fascination with finding even the smallest issues and refusing to move off their sacred points they find comfort in.
I mean is this seriously the thread now? We care more about people who reported wrongly then people who deliver content?
I always worried about the day I'd have to stop posting because of my political beliefs. Never thought I'd see the day though. where does the ban explicitly state that? I don't recall the text of the ban explanation being provided to us at all. From: Seeker TL Staff [ 30309 posts | Profile ]
Subject: Temporary Ban from US Politics Mega-thread
Date: 3/26/18 05:15
Hi Danglars.
The mods have noticed that you have been getting reported rather frequently for your posts in the US Politics Mega-thread as of late. After some internal mod discussion, we've decided to temporarily remove your access to the US Politics Mega-thread. You will be notified when your access has been given back.
-Seeker I don't see any explicit statement there that the reports were correct or incorrect. it could be interpreted to mean that some of the reports were incorrect, and some were correct; and rather than issue a series of warnings on several posts, they chose to just use a temp ban. at any rate, it's not an EXPLICIT statement that the reporters were incorrect. implicit maybe, but not explicit. while it's poor judicial process, that's to be expected, as my push for a better judicial process has not had much support, and proper processes tend to be time consuming. I could understand at the very least that they wanted to do an experiment to see if Danglers was a positive influence on the thread or a negative influence. I could understand that they found a string of posts that were borderline and they wanted to just cool it before everyone went over the line and a time out was the best option decided. But the Idea that his temp ban from the thread is solely because he was wrongly reported is just unacceptable and should be unacceptable by anyone in the thread who believes that they can express their political views without being punished for them. On March 27 2018 05:16 Plansix wrote:On March 27 2018 05:06 Sermokala wrote:On March 27 2018 05:03 Plansix wrote:
I don’t consider myself to be unreasonable and I try to own up to my bullshit, liberal or otherwise. But when cross the line I’m either drinking and posting or letting my feeling get the better of me.
Danglars constant passive aggressive self righteousness tone is why he gets such a strong response. I’m of the opinion it is intentional, but the mods have never really done anything. But maybe now posters are more inclined to report people who post in that fashion since the new thread started.
It’s a temp ban, it’s fine. Happens to the best of us. Gee I don't know maybe there was something the moderation could do before a temp ban to let him know that hes been dangerously reported wrongly in the thread. Like warning him that his unpopularity was leading to him being reported excessively and that they were going to ban him if the reporting continued. I mean do me and xdaunt have to worry about our posts being reported too many times that we're going to be auctioned as well? Normally my ass just got banned when I did dumb shit. Then I was left with self reflection on the error of my ways, which normally was because I decided to tell someone how dumb they were. We are all grownups here. Danglars knowns exactly why he got all those reports and other conservatives did not. So you support banning people from the thread for being reported wrongly? I get that Danglers isn't the best reporter but he at least tries to respond to as many people as possible. That is an unreasonable ask for how people are hyenas on him and refuse to debate with anyone else in the thread. I've put out reasonable and moderate arguments and yet they never get traction from the same people who are constantly attacking Danglers and constantly reporting him probably. From our mod thread: You remove Danglars and all politics threads in the General forum will probably improve. There will still be a lot of white noise but you'd get rid of a lot of the belligerence we're seeing right now. A temp threadban should prove this theory right or wrong. So, yes. You're right. We want to see what happens. From what I saw (disclaimer: I didn't read every word of the exchange) people were piling on Danglars without addressing his actual argument which was essentially correct: When Constitutional rights conflict (in this case the cake maker's right to free speech, and the customers' equal protection rights) the court compares the parties' interests and determines which are easier to accommodate without creating an undue burden on the other party. Also I'd still like a response to this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2018 22:25 Mercy13 wrote:Why was this post not actioned? On March 25 2018 21:26 Excludos wrote:
Again guys, I must reiterate. Danglar is always going to be Danglar. The best ways to deal with his views is to not engage with them. If you find it ridiculous, then stop entertaining them. This thread is consistently derailed by one person and everyone who answers him. I tried to report it but I got to it too late. I'm on board with tightening the posting standards, but it seems like substance-less personal attacks like this are more noxious to discussion than posting articles without comment. I'll drop it if the mods still don't want to respond, but it's tough to blame Danglars for being aggressive when people are posting stuff like that regularly...
I already went back and warned him. I explicitly told him that publicly calling out Danglars like that is unacceptable.
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On March 27 2018 05:40 farvacola wrote:
Far, far more posters have been actioned for a post responding to Danglars than Danglars or any other regular conservative poster has been actioned.
For good reason? If the reports were correct Danglers would be actioned. The mods admitted that they don't care that the reports are wrong they care more apparently about the number of reports in the thread and seeing if removing Danglers would lower the number of reports.
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