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MOD NOTE: Stay on topic and formulate your posts carefully and with dilligence or moderation will follow. No bullshitting around or flaming.
One of my good friends just posted this on facebook.
I am an UN-APOLOGETIC AMERICAN!! I pledge allegiance to the flag of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under GOD, indivisibl e, with LIBERTY and JUSTICE for all!! I grew up reciting this every morning in school. We no longer do that for...fear... of OFFENDING SOMEONE!! Let's see how many AMERICANS will re post this & not care about offending someone!!
Now as an atheist, I was a little offended, but more-so concerned. Being offended isn't enough reason to present an argument to a friend for me. It's usual for me to present an argument to discover the depth of their opinion, if it is at all present. So I replied like this.
Under God was added to the Pledge in 1954. Historically speaking it's been in the pledge for a shorter amount of time than we have been in existence as a nation. Plus a Federal Judge ruled it unconstitutional, which it is, since it is proclaiming that this is a nation under the monotheistic protestant god, and no other. My stance as an atheist is, that you give an inch they take a mile. If I let them treat me as if I'm not part of the country because of my beliefs (or lack thereof), then how is that essentially any different than the oppression people face in some middle eastern countries where they are bonified theocracies.
Not that I'm against religious people, I just think that religion is a personal thing, and whether the country endorses your God or any other god shouldn't have any bearing on your personal relationship with said deity.
It really is the same as if you lived in a country that was catholic and pledge allegiance to the pope, but you are protestant, and you were like sitting in class and everyone says it, and then you don't, and are socially an outcast because of it. If the law of that country didn't pledge allegiance to anything supernatural or religious, that social conflict wouldn't be inflicted unfairly upon children.
And finally religious belief is yours, not everyone's. This country is about freedom. It was founded on the principles of people fleeing from the catholic church, as protestants. The founding fathers were fighting against a theocracy for their freedom as a nation. Most of the founding fathers were deists, meaning they believed there was a god, but they had no belief in the Christian god. They publicly outcried against religion. Not to say they are right, but to proclaim that this is a Christian nation is only true in the sense that the majority of people that are citizens here are Christians. A country being secular, which ours is traditionally in practice governmentally, doesn't take away from your religious practices whatsoever. You are still allowed to teach your children everything you want to. You wouldn't want the schools to take over and teach your children your personal beliefs that you want to pass on to them would you? That's how it feels for atheist parents, like the government is trying to tell them that there isn't a such thing as raising a child as someone who makes up their own mind one day.
I have yet to get a response, and probably won't get one. Just wanted to open a discussion on this topic though. Under god, your stance on it?
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What god?
Edit: Ok, apparently I decided to think after I posted.
Since I'm not American, I don't pledge to the God, the Flag or any of that. In fact, I haven't made any pledges because I'm born in Canada. Apparently, if one is born in the country that one resides in, they're automatically loyal to that country, whereas one that moves in the country is not. Anyways, if you're going to pledge your loyalty to the state, then the pledge of allegiance should be to the state. It's not a matter of political correctness, but of whom you're showing allegiance to.
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On January 16 2011 16:42 The_LiNk wrote: What god?
the god people created in their heads
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On January 16 2011 16:42 The_LiNk wrote: What god?
Well the god in the USA's Pledge of Allegiance is "God". The christian god.
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God shouldn't play a role in anything as he doesn't exist until proven otherwise.
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God is whatever was the catalyst for life imo...
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http://godisimaginary.com/i28.htm
The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
The link goes into more detail. Out of many "proofs" that are available (which are technically not actual "proofs", since they rely on an assumption that "god exists" so that it can be disproven, when there is actually no "proof" that "god exists" to begin with..... well, at least nothing that doesn't fall apart when put up to logical scrutiny), this is the one that I find to be most convincing.
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God is Almighty and Jesus his son died on the cross for our sins. We as Americans have a holy duty to praise His name and acknowledge our sAviOr, for without Him we are lost. America is a Christian Nation and we are all, whether we acknowledge it or not, soldiers in His cause.
Jesus Hwaiting!
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Try mescaline then tell me there's no Supreme Being.
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try mescaline then tell me that dave is not a horse
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it's bullshit (saying under god in the pledge, and really just the idea of the pledge in general) but really who actually recited the pledge in school anway? lol. when i remember doing it in school, only like 3 kids would actually do it.
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We all did it graciously in school; and since prayer in schools has been outlawed by the traitorous liberals, I think it was a healthy dose of Jesus for the heathens.
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It's unconstitutional. The constitution is fallible, but I believe that it's a good thing for a country not to be affiliated with a certain church. People have to be really dumb not to realize that. I have many christian friends who agree that the US is a secular nation. As it is constituted of many religion, the government shouldn't "pick" a religion.
In this day and age, it even seems ridiculous that a government would have a religion. Grow up people.
On January 16 2011 17:08 Gummy wrote: We all did it graciously in school; and since prayer in schools has been outlawed by the traitorous liberals, I think it was a healthy dose of Jesus for the heathens. Prayer was never outlawed, it's just illegal to force children to pray in school. I'm not sure if you were kidding though, I have a hard time with sarcasm on forums - it's such a silly thing to say, but yet...
Anyway this is my second language so if you were kidding, my apologies.
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ehhh, Religion I predict many arguments for today's forecast.
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Hey DJzapz! I'm glad God finally got through to you and you changed your sig away from that vain quote from l1a. Even though you're not American, in God's eyes you're almost as good.
On January 16 2011 17:17 cartoon wrote: ehhh, Religion I predict many arguments for today's forecast.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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On January 16 2011 17:18 Gummy wrote: Hey DJzapz! I'm glad God finally got through to you and you changed your sig away from that vain quote from l1a. Even though you're not American, in God's eyes you're almost as good. Months ago x_x
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I haven't actually recited the pledge since like 5th grade. I'll stand and be quiet, but no way am I just going to pledge to a flag because I have to. That makes it sound more rebellious than I actually am, but it's sorta what I think of it.
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On January 16 2011 17:33 stormtemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 16:57 Impervious wrote:http://godisimaginary.com/i28.htmThe following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." The link goes into more detail. Out of many "proofs" that are available (which are technically not actual "proofs", since they rely on an assumption that "god exists" so that it can be disproven, when there is actually no "proof" that "god exists" to begin with..... well, at least nothing that doesn't fall apart when put up to logical scrutiny), this is the one that I find to be most convincing. Counter argument is that there is no conclusive proof that god DOESN'T exist and thus the fact that some atheists ridicule people of faith for lack of proof and blind faith is hypocritical. It's kinda hard to prove that something doesn't exist when there is no "proof" that it exists anyways.....
Look up "Russel's Teapot" to see what I mean.
Counter-argument my ass.....
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