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On November 27 2010 06:55 TurpinOS wrote:
Bweeee.. gonna edit all of this, this sale could have created a lot of issues with how the corp works but since it was only a 1 day sale we might be lucky and not have to deal with too many people coming in saying ''Sup i never played eve but I bought my account already for 5$''
I fail to see the issue. In the long run, both EVE in general and the TL corp specifically can only profit from the influx of new players. And a 5$ sale of the game is very likely to motivate people to give the game a try.
The worst that could happen is that, yeah, some TL corp member fails to get his free 30 days because a new player already upgraded his account, and a new guy actually gets to explore the game instead of being dragged along by someone else. But I didn't post the link in this thread only so that a lot of old players could get free play time; I posted it for everyone interested in a cheap EVE account, be it new people or veteran players.
Oh, and the approach of giving new players ISK, advice and a 21 day trial for 30 days of play time for the seasoned player isn't guaranteed to yield results either. There are so many people fed up with the game after only a month or two because they got spoonfed everything, didn't have to earn anything and never bothered to explore and experience it from scratch.
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Lalalaland34471 Posts
Shockk - nah they're complaining about the sheer number of people who are going to buy the game because of the discount, have no clue what to do, require lots of help, then decide that this isn't the game for them and quit.
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On November 27 2010 07:46 Firebolt145 wrote:
Shockk - nah they're complaining about the sheer number of people who are going to buy the game because of the discount, have no clue what to do, require lots of help, then decide that this isn't the game for them and quit.
Yeah, I get that. But as I said, I didn't post the link to the sale specifically for the TL corp. I posted it for everyone interested in EVE. Just assuming that the sale will lead to increased numbers of clueless people applying to the EVE corp is ridiculous; there are so many people lurking in this thread who have nothing to do with the TL corp in-game or don't even play EVE in the first place.
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Lalalaland34471 Posts
Yeah I'm okay with that, I'm one of those newbies who are pestering them like crazy right now :D
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It's not fun when your trying to reactivate one of your 3 accounts, not know which character is on that account, what email that account is registered too, what password you had for that account. Go CCP petition go
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On November 27 2010 07:43 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 06:55 TurpinOS wrote:
Bweeee.. gonna edit all of this, this sale could have created a lot of issues with how the corp works but since it was only a 1 day sale we might be lucky and not have to deal with too many people coming in saying ''Sup i never played eve but I bought my account already for 5$''
I fail to see the issue. In the long run, both EVE in general and the TL corp specifically can only profit from the influx of new players. And a 5$ sale of the game is very likely to motivate people to give the game a try. The worst that could happen is that, yeah, some TL corp member fails to get his free 30 days because a new player already upgraded his account, and a new guy actually gets to explore the game instead of being dragged along by someone else. But I didn't post the link in this thread only so that a lot of old players could get free play time; I posted it for everyone interested in a cheap EVE account, be it new people or veteran players. Oh, and the approach of giving new players ISK, advice and a 21 day trial for 30 days of play time for the seasoned player isn't guaranteed to yield results either. There are so many people fed up with the game after only a month or two because they got spoonfed everything, didn't have to earn anything and never bothered to explore and experience it from scratch.
Its a problem because the system right now is working perfectly, and a new player that comes in the game with no help at all will feel overwhelmed and quit.
People coming with prepurchased account would make us have to give them our time and money (without anything back in return) and a VERY VERY high chance of them quitting the game. We also have a very high amount of new players joining right now which is already pretty chaotic (10 new guys in a week), and someone coming in without a mentor would get completely lost. Not only is this bad for him, but it doesnt show a good image for the corp.
This is not about getting a free 30 day, its about the fact that to start this game in an enjoyable way, you need someone that will answer a lot of question, and you need financement (with learnings removed its less of an issue but still, the current mentor program is developed around that greatly). The mentor program as of now is a win win situation, while the mentor gets a free 30 month IF the mentee stays, he still gives a lot of isk and time to the mentee (for example, most mentor give around 200mil to their mentee so they start strong/ buy a plex out of the 21-day trial). A player coming in with a prepurchased 14-day account would have trouble fitting in and would probably quit, which is not a good thing for the corp. (We're not currently IN NEED of members, we love having new members, but its already a bit overwhelming the amount were getting.)
(Also, im not saying that you posting the link was the problem, its cool, im just saying that if it was a sale that would last over a long amount of time, it could have complicated things)
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EVE Online: Incursion 1.0.0 will be deployed on Tuesday, November 30, 2010. Incursion 1.0.0 features a new salvaging ship, the Noctis, a vast number of player-requested improvements and fixes as well as important server-side optimizations. For more information about the Incursion expansion, please visit our expansion website.
FUUUUU. I know what I'm maxing out first with my free skill points. Screw the Tengu, come here Battle Noctis.
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On November 27 2010 10:04 pahndah wrote:
EVE Online: Incursion 1.0.0 will be deployed on Tuesday, November 30, 2010. Incursion 1.0.0 features a new salvaging ship, the Noctis, a vast number of player-requested improvements and fixes as well as important server-side optimizations. For more information about the Incursion expansion, please visit our expansion website.
Oh so excited!
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If only it could fit a cov ops cloak.....
Check Eve-gate: receive:
Per http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=824 CCP are removing all learning skills and giving you the skillpoints you had in them to redisitribute into other skills. I therefore expect all you lazy bastards to have Recon 5, Logistics 5, Command Ships 5 and all the other important skills you haven't been training in favor of Salvaging 5, Industry 5, Looting 5 and GTFO 5.
~Faffywaffy,
I think only the old TL members will get this, but whatever!
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@TurpinOS: Thanks for your extensive answer. I don't want to derail this further, so one last post from me and then I'll leave this sub-discussion on the sale (which is over anyway  ).
As said in my post before, you seem to assume that the majority of new players motivated by the Steam sale would have flocked to the TL corp without the proper preparation. While some would probably have done so, there'd be many others who just stumbled upon the link because they read this thread for general EVE information and not because they're interested in the corp. Also (considering Kwark's angry quote in the OP), people seem to come to the corp with wrong expectations and preparation regardless of the circumstances.
But here I'm just repeating myself; what I actually wanted to commentate upon is this part of your post:
its about the fact that to start this game in an enjoyable way, you need someone that will answer a lot of question, and you need financement
I firmly believe that this is absolutely wrong for the majority of players. For the TL corp and it's demographic it's perfectly right ofc, but you made it sound like a general statement, so I'd like to debate that part.
Exploring the game world, gathering experience, learning the game mechanics and especially earning rewards, skills and ISK are huge factors in building long-term motivation. Give a new player ISK, learning skills, implants, a ship + fits and a guide to the optimal fitting/learning plan and chances are he'll quit just as quickly as someone who's strictly on his own - because he's bored.
You do need help in EVE or you're doomed, sure, but that's what the Rookie Chat, forums and corps like E-Uni are for. Findings answers and getting to know people while learning the ropes really helps with integrating into the community - you don't neccessarily need a mentor for that. Personally, EVE would have been much less fun for me had I not earned my learning skills, my first implant set or my first battlecruiser by myself and from scratch. I believe that every player should get the chance to get to know the game more or less by oneself before engaging in min/maxing or worrying about efficiency.
So ... this post has become way too long, and I'm probably seeing arguments and potential for discussion where there are none to begin with. I just hope the Steam sale motivated some people to try the game and that they have as much fun as I did when I undocked the first time and was amazed by New Eden .
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United States41386 Posts
On November 27 2010 07:43 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 06:55 TurpinOS wrote:
Bweeee.. gonna edit all of this, this sale could have created a lot of issues with how the corp works but since it was only a 1 day sale we might be lucky and not have to deal with too many people coming in saying ''Sup i never played eve but I bought my account already for 5$''
The worst that could happen is that, yeah, some TL corp member fails to get his free 30 days because a new player already upgraded his account, and a new guy actually gets to explore the game instead of being dragged along by someone else. But I didn't post the link in this thread only so that a lot of old players could get free play time; I posted it for everyone interested in a cheap EVE account, be it new people or veteran players. Oh, and the approach of giving new players ISK, advice and a 21 day trial for 30 days of play time for the seasoned player isn't guaranteed to yield results either. There are so many people fed up with the game after only a month or two because they got spoonfed everything, didn't have to earn anything and never bothered to explore and experience it from scratch.
Except people don't explore the game. That'd take initiative, a quality the vast majority of players are extremely lacking in. Instead they sit there waiting for the game to feed them something linear to follow and in EVE it just runs out. Then they decide the single player sucks (which it does) and quit.
By all means if they want to learn the game by themselves and then join the corp then feel free. Nothing would make me happier than getting new members who don't take any work. But if they show up with no clue (and 90% of all players of all ages have no clue) then I need the mentor program to pawn them off. Otherwise it simply gets too overwhelming because the work all falls on me.
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Lalalaland34471 Posts
On November 27 2010 12:04 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 07:43 Shockk wrote:On November 27 2010 06:55 TurpinOS wrote:
Bweeee.. gonna edit all of this, this sale could have created a lot of issues with how the corp works but since it was only a 1 day sale we might be lucky and not have to deal with too many people coming in saying ''Sup i never played eve but I bought my account already for 5$''
The worst that could happen is that, yeah, some TL corp member fails to get his free 30 days because a new player already upgraded his account, and a new guy actually gets to explore the game instead of being dragged along by someone else. But I didn't post the link in this thread only so that a lot of old players could get free play time; I posted it for everyone interested in a cheap EVE account, be it new people or veteran players. Oh, and the approach of giving new players ISK, advice and a 21 day trial for 30 days of play time for the seasoned player isn't guaranteed to yield results either. There are so many people fed up with the game after only a month or two because they got spoonfed everything, didn't have to earn anything and never bothered to explore and experience it from scratch. Except people don't explore the game. That'd take initiative, a quality the vast majority of players are extremely lacking in. Instead they sit there waiting for the game to feed them something linear to follow and in EVE it just runs out. Then they decide the single player sucks (which it does) and quit.
Initiative + someone to help you through everything > pure initiative, in terms of how much you gain + length of time needed + fun.
I can take the initiative solo, but it gets boring quick.
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I think I play into what you guys hate when i joined earlier this summer. I started playing, got all my early missions done, then was completely lost and oblivious as to what to do next. I had done the trial and got someone a free month(I think his name was Gordanfreeman, but after I spent a week after doing my single player missions literally just traveling everywhere looking for any mission, I got insanely bored and quit. I'm considering coming back now though, if TL is willing to teach people how to play now? I don't know, but that's what I'm parsing from this thread right now. Only problem is, I wouldn't have the incentive of a free month to someone, so you guys may not want to take me back 
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On November 27 2010 12:04 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 07:43 Shockk wrote:On November 27 2010 06:55 TurpinOS wrote:
Bweeee.. gonna edit all of this, this sale could have created a lot of issues with how the corp works but since it was only a 1 day sale we might be lucky and not have to deal with too many people coming in saying ''Sup i never played eve but I bought my account already for 5$''
The worst that could happen is that, yeah, some TL corp member fails to get his free 30 days because a new player already upgraded his account, and a new guy actually gets to explore the game instead of being dragged along by someone else. But I didn't post the link in this thread only so that a lot of old players could get free play time; I posted it for everyone interested in a cheap EVE account, be it new people or veteran players. Oh, and the approach of giving new players ISK, advice and a 21 day trial for 30 days of play time for the seasoned player isn't guaranteed to yield results either. There are so many people fed up with the game after only a month or two because they got spoonfed everything, didn't have to earn anything and never bothered to explore and experience it from scratch. Except people don't explore the game. That'd take initiative, a quality the vast majority of players are extremely lacking in. Instead they sit there waiting for the game to feed them something linear to follow and in EVE it just runs out. Then they decide the single player sucks (which it does) and quit. By all means if they want to learn the game by themselves and then join the corp then feel free. Nothing would make me happier than getting new members who don't take any work. But if they show up with no clue (and 90% of all players of all ages have no clue) then I need the mentor program to pawn them off. Otherwise it simply gets too overwhelming because the work all falls on me.
Well KwarK I don't know if you remember asking me questions when you were just a young pod pilot, but pretty much everybody goes through it. Just from reading this thread you appear to have been successful since I left the game, so hats off to you.
FWIW, I'm trying to reactivate my account to join the TL corp., but it appears my account has been banned while I had it de-activated. It was probably hacked and then used to sell ISK or some shit, but hey, at least you'll have one person who doesn't need any help soon. :D
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United States41386 Posts
I'm actually still as ignorant now as I was then, I've just gotten angrier so people don't call me out on my hypocrisy.
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To any new potential pilots: Ignore this idiots discussing whether or not new players are good. They are, and let me remind you that me and motbob created The Hatchery with the sole purpose of training new pilots. Now the corp has evolved into so much more now thanks mostly to Kwark but the objective of easing the process of starting to play EVE is still very high up in the list of priorities for us.
Sure a lot of people join and quit after 15 days (even less) but let me and Kwark deal with that, I am happy to help anyone and if out of 100 apps we get 3 new pilots I'm a happy camper.
Besides the only 2 people that can complain about new players are Dexxus and Jayme because the rest of us are still learning. If you disagree let me know. I'll be happy to give you a little test to show you exactly how little you know about this game.
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United States41386 Posts
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Well, it looks like its going to be a while before I can get my old account back. Would someone mind tossing me a trial key so I can at least fly around?
edit: trial received. Thanks.
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confirming kwark's ignorance
@kizu
that faffy mail seems weirdly aimed at you :p
vorcePA, were you by any chance sonotassadar?
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Yah. I'm one of those people who enjoys starting a game out solo and exploring it. I do it with every MMO I play. Most other games, too. I really dislike having someone hold my hand, but I also started EVE a good bit before I realized TL even had a corporation. I also prefer playing solo in-general, haha. I'm just awkward like that.
I definitely enjoyed the first 2 months of play, but after that I've found that to accomplish much you generally need to join a corporation. Joining a random corporation didn't appeal to me. I'm also online far less often than I would like to be because I'm typically busy at home, at work, or working on my site. I'm a self-employed liqour store owner and owner of a fansite, haha.
I still play EVE, but mostly I just keep my account going so I can train random skills and just fly around and play liesurely. Sometimes I do a few missions, other times I just scan down wormholes in high-sec/low-sec (never been to null-sec) and fly through them with random bullshit ships just to see what's on the other side, sometimes I mine for the hell of it (mining Megathron, werd!), planetary interaction stuff, etc.
But yah, I definitely know almost nothing about PvP. I've watched some, read about it, and thought about it, but none of that translates to real experience. My ships are also probably outfitted so poorly that they'd make some people cry, I assume. I would also assume that other new players who solo would end up in the same scenario if they don't join random corporations.
As much as I think people should take the time to at least figure some stuff out themselves, I think that this initiative TL corp takes with helping people learn the game faster is more important. Most people just don't have the drive to just explore stuff, like Kwark said, and they're very likely to quit if they don't receive help quickly. I know my friends did. It's also a great way to break people into the PvP scene since they'll be more comfortable going in with people they know from outside the game they're playing, even if that place is another game forum. Haha.
For the majority of people the guided technique is great and for the rest I think it works out well because it gives them a place to go to when they finally feel they've hit a wall of progression. All-in-all, I feel this The Hatchery thing is a great idea.
ANYWAY, HOW IS THE WAR GOING?!
Have they sent any more messages regarding their demands for the sparing of The Hatchery? do they want the women and children? Have they threatened you with the wrath of their sun god? Will this be the end of our hero's?
D'=
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EPT
