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Aotearoa39261 Posts
UPDATE: Thanks for the replays everyone! You're more than welcome to keep adding them to the thread if you like!
Hello! This is a rather unusual request to make in the strategy forum but I was wondering if people would be willing to share their replays (win or lose) of this build in action. Specifically: 10pylon, 10gate, 12 gas, 15 core, 18gategategate and they try to build pylons in your main while chronoboosting warpgate
Example: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/sc2_reps/Plexa_vs_Klutch.sc2replay
I am seeking these so that we can improve the Liquipedia page for this topic and that can only be done if there is a wide range data to look at (hence the replays). There were a lot of good replays from beta (particularly Tozar's games) but now that we're in retail we're going to need retail reps!
Any help is appreciated
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Are you looking for specifically "good" or "outstanding" replays or just a bunch or replays with ppl playing that build?
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lol, lots of people was saying that "plexa is working on wrap gate rush count guide".
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On July 31 2010 22:00 peon.power wrote: Are you looking for specifically "good" or "outstanding" replays or just a bunch or replays with ppl playing that build?
just people playing the build, good, bad, amazing, 2 apm. Anything is good
On July 31 2010 22:02 NB wrote: lol, lots of people was saying that "plexa is working on wrap gate rush count guide". Yes and no! It's looking at the build from both sides - I think have an "optimal" response to the build, but working out how to play the build after that or what things can be done differently to make the build more effective are things I need to look at.
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Hihi plexa! u're doing a great job ^_^
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Has anyone found a viable strat against this? I always do 10pylon, 10gate, 12 gas, 15 core, 18gategategate and they try to build pylons in your main while chronoboosting warpgate
because, if i don't, the opponent will do it and i will loose. Tried some stuff but nothing seems to work other then doing yourself an ultrafast warpgate. I even put guys off gas while building gategategate (afterwards put them back). On close rush distance maps (steppes of war) this strat doesn't work. Your opponent will obviously scout it. he will just send 2 zeal kill the pylons in your main.
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As a Protoss player I'll try to help and will try to do this build seeing how effective it is in Diamond ladder. I'll edit my post after a few games (only play during late night).
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It is super effective. I tought all protoss diamond knew about it (and use it).
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On July 31 2010 22:05 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 22:02 NB wrote: lol, lots of people was saying that "plexa is working on wrap gate rush count guide". Yes and no! It's looking at the build from both sides - I think have an "optimal" response to the build, but working out how to play the build after that or what things can be done differently to make the build more effective are things I need to look at. ok, i have not buy sc2 due to exams but in phase 2, i have to say it is 80% unstopable if you do it right.
what make you do it right? 1/saving chrono boost 2/ wall off(partly/totally) ramp using build structure (good on maps like LT or metro) 3/ number of probe mining gas 4/scout timing***
***: scout is really important when you do this build. the scout timing need to be right so that you are not hurt in economy(you basicly sitting ~18 probes) but still can plot the proxy/none-proxy 2 gates zealots pressure. keeping scout alive b4 1st stalker came out also crucial.
now i will start readi the liquid pedia page for moar info :D...
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***: scout is really important when you do this build. the scout timing need to be right so that you are not hurt in economy(you basicly sitting ~18 probes) but still can plot the proxy/none-proxy 2 gates zealots pressure. keeping scout alive b4 1st stalker came out also crucial.
I disagree. You should scout way earlier to see if he is going 2 gate or proxy 2 gate (2 other popular starts). If he is doing so you have to radically change your plans and chronoboost the hell out of zealots to match his number of zealots.
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On July 31 2010 22:56 Anomandaris wrote: It is super effective. I tought all protoss diamond knew about it (and use it). Nope, the Diamond Protoss I face in PvP haven't tried this on me (although I block my ramp off with a probe in case some Protoss canonrush me or wants to scout in my main most of the times). And I haven't seen this play in phase 2 of Beta when I was in Diamond (maybe I'm just lucky or opponent were still too low Diamond/didn't know about this tactic) but I did try this a few times out.
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On July 31 2010 23:11 Anomandaris wrote:Show nested quote + ***: scout is really important when you do this build. the scout timing need to be right so that you are not hurt in economy(you basicly sitting ~18 probes) but still can plot the proxy/none-proxy 2 gates zealots pressure. keeping scout alive b4 1st stalker came out also crucial.
I disagree. You should scout way earlier to see if he is going 2 gate or proxy 2 gate (2 other popular starts). If he is doing so you have to radically change your plans and chronoboost the hell out of zealots to match his number of zealots. how does he know you gona 4 wrap rush so that he gona proxy you? depend on map decided you gate/scout timing. like on step, it easy to getaway with a 10 pylon 10 gate 11/12 scout with a wall at your ramp. remember that if he proxy-ing, you always scout it in time to transition into something different than 4 wrap rush. a good player never "stick" with 1 build that they decided to do b4 the game start. flexibility is what it need to maintain at high level diamond (i dont know about Lz's reapers build in this case but yeah)
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4 warp gate rush Korean Style is so easy to scout. U come in his base. U see he 10 gated. He has no more then 18 probes. He has one gas (maybe probe off gas). he saves chrono. He doesn't make a unit. He has one (maybe 2 pylons) in his base. He chronoboost his cyber. He build 3 extra gates. He build pylons in your main. He warps in and you gg.
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On July 31 2010 22:05 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 22:00 peon.power wrote: Are you looking for specifically "good" or "outstanding" replays or just a bunch or replays with ppl playing that build?
just people playing the build, good, bad, amazing, 2 apm. Anything is good Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 22:02 NB wrote: lol, lots of people was saying that "plexa is working on wrap gate rush count guide". Yes and no! It's looking at the build from both sides - I think have an "optimal" response to the build, but working out how to play the build after that or what things can be done differently to make the build more effective are things I need to look at.
I know you're going to break your counter idea into a separate post or a Liquipedia article, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on how to beat it. I've had success opening 13-gate, cyber, noting his building timing for an early clue, and then pulling scout probe out of his base before his cyber core finishes. If he's going 4-gate, he doesn't want to build a stalker before his additional gateways, so I can just poke back in with my scout probe 15-30 seconds later and respond. I've found that if you constantly build units off of your gateways before warpgate finishes, you can safely defend against his attack with only 3 gateways. What do you think?
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I have a couple of replays. There are not the best but the last two I played:
http://www.mediafire.com/?5l3okvnfwev1mht http://www.mediafire.com/?3o8pzp4ot3wprlb
In the first game for an unknwon reason I decided to place only one pylon in his main and one outside (in stead of 4 in hi main). In the second I microed quite poorly but the guy tried to take out the pylons with probes (<-mistake). I won both games without a sweat in 6min 30. The first warpin start at 5min25sec. I am currently 400 diamond.
I've found that if you constantly build units off of your gateways before warpgate finishes, you can safely defend against his attack with only 3 gateways. Yeah probably. Dont chronoboost probes however and dont take two gas before you started all your gates. Dont pull guys off mining to take out pylons. Huk defeated Tester(who 4 gate rushed) once out of two in the KOTB. ( http://day9tv.blip.tv/ ). Huk also could hold the 4 gate of nani (game 1: http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/32177901). This start also doesnt seem to work on short rush distance maps (Huk vs Nani game2: http://vodpod.com/watch/4102191-day9-launch-event-game-2-huk-vs-nani)
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 01 2010 03:08 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 22:05 Plexa wrote:On July 31 2010 22:00 peon.power wrote: Are you looking for specifically "good" or "outstanding" replays or just a bunch or replays with ppl playing that build?
just people playing the build, good, bad, amazing, 2 apm. Anything is good On July 31 2010 22:02 NB wrote: lol, lots of people was saying that "plexa is working on wrap gate rush count guide". Yes and no! It's looking at the build from both sides - I think have an "optimal" response to the build, but working out how to play the build after that or what things can be done differently to make the build more effective are things I need to look at. I know you're going to break your counter idea into a separate post or a Liquipedia article, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on how to beat it. I've had success opening 13-gate, cyber, noting his building timing for an early clue, and then pulling scout probe out of his base before his cyber core finishes. If he's going 4-gate, he doesn't want to build a stalker before his additional gateways, so I can just poke back in with my scout probe 15-30 seconds later and respond. I've found that if you constantly build units off of your gateways before warpgate finishes, you can safely defend against his attack with only 3 gateways. What do you think? You can check liquipedia for that at the moment!
On August 01 2010 03:38 Anomandaris wrote:I have a couple of replays. There are not the best but the last two I played: http://www.mediafire.com/?5l3okvnfwev1mhthttp://www.mediafire.com/?3o8pzp4ot3wprlbIn the first game for an unknwon reason I decided to place only one pylon in his main and one outside (in stead of 4 in hi main). In the second I microed quite poorly but the guy tried to take out the pylons with probes (<-mistake). I won both games without a sweat in 6min 30. The first warpin start at 5min25sec. I am currently 400 diamond. Show nested quote +I've found that if you constantly build units off of your gateways before warpgate finishes, you can safely defend against his attack with only 3 gateways. Yeah probably. Dont chronoboost probes however and dont take two gas before you started all your gates. Dont pull guys off mining to take out pylons. Huk defeated Tester(who 4 gate rushed) once out of two in the KOTB. ( http://day9tv.blip.tv/ ). Huk also could hold the 4 gate of nani (game 1: http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/32177901). This start also doesnt seem to work on short rush distance maps (Huk vs Nani game2: http://vodpod.com/watch/4102191-day9-launch-event-game-2-huk-vs-nani) Thanks! Will check them out
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Hey, if you're still looking for replays, here's one. First time I tried it, so it's not that crisp overall, but it improved my weak PvP a lot.
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Even I have trouble countering this build. I've quit doing the 4 warpgate rush because I want to actually get better at PvP. Doing this over and over again really hurt my game once other people figured it out.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Looks like you linked the same game twice! I know this build is stupidly popular on SEA atm
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