EPTLet's restrict the discussion to plausible scenarios.
Power Rank 07/02/2010 - Page 48
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okum
France5776 Posts
Let's restrict the discussion to plausible scenarios. | ||
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
 I wonder what Plexa will put more weight on for Bisu's ranking the ro16 games or the proleague playoffs? Personally I would put more weight on proleague, because these playoffs only come around once a year, but I may be biased in this case. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8551 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On July 29 2010 14:57 n.DieJokes wrote: Well, sort of. I think his build was genius but its was pretty gimicky. He basically played FlaSh and grabbed a huge advantage and all credit to him for pulling out the w but it didn't really impress me. A better indicator of his ZvT skill is his game vs Midas which felt underwhelming to me just because Midas played such a crap early to midgame. I think Waxangel put it best in the most recent podcast that Effort is really good when he gets an advantage but he really has to work to get that edge. I completely count his game against Fantasy against him, I sick of his stupid shenanigans. If he wasn't 100% confident that wall was bad he should have had faith in his straight up ZvT. I can't remember the last time effort beat a really solid Terran with pure standard 3 hatch muta->lurk->deflier (sorry Midas, play better) You've totally twisted and turned the facts to suit your argument. There are no accidents in BW (well, okay, canceling storm during a hydra bust, maybe) but EffOrt completely worked over Flash in the battle of the mind-games, and that's a critical part of your play. Midas is a regular A-teamer with reliable TvZ, and EffOrt screwed him over with lings and lurkers. And saying EffOrt didn't have confidence in his ZvT against fantasy is silly, if your opponent 14 cc's, and you 9 pool, should you wait until your opponent has enough defense before attacking, because you want to demonstrate your muta micro would've beaten him anyway? You take calculated risks all the time in BW, and EffOrt's one of the best at it. With fantasy already #3, I don't see EffOrt giving ground to any of the players behind him, barring a total catastrophe against Midas. I can think of one recent non-ZvZ where EffOrt came from behind, and that's his game against fantasy on Fighting Spirit. But players like Jaedong, Flash, fantasy, EffOrt, they rarely start at a disadvantage to begin with. On July 30 2010 01:24 Nick_54 wrote: "I have a strong belief that the games a player loses tells you a lot more about his skill level than the games where he wins." Maybe Kal deserves a spot? I wonder what Plexa will put more weight on for Bisu's ranking the ro16 games or the proleague playoffs? Personally I would put more weight on proleague, because these playoffs only come around once a year, but I may be biased in this case. I think it's safe to say that Bisu will move up, but his PvT is really bizarre, and I'd don't think he'll crack to top four with his current play in that MU. I'd love to see Kal come back on the PR. That was a hell of a series he gave Jaedong. He'll have to win out for the month though. | ||
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Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
 If I was judging the PR off the MSL only, then i'd definitely put Kal up there but lets see how he does against a very strong SKT and in his OSL debut I'm curious to see how Plexa reacts to Jaedong losing to Kal though. Since everyone expected JD to roll him, I wouldn't be surprised if he counts it against JD. I mean, it's a viable argument, but really comes down to whether you see it as Kal playing well, or Jaedong playing sloppy :p That said, best series of the night :D hands down :p | ||
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luckybeni2
Germany1065 Posts
On July 30 2010 00:44 okum wrote: Let's restrict the discussion to plausible scenarios. It certanly is possible. His series against JD showed a very high skill level again. On his A-game he can defeat anyone. I would not put him on the PR even if he beats both fantasy and bisu this month since there are a lot of people who deserved it more. Maybe next time. Anyway I really wonder where Stork rounds up. That was a pretty brutal stomping he gave there. This will be a really interesting one since Baby, Stats and Great will have to drop out and effort should probably go in the lower half and Free has barely played(maybe he drops out, too). | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On July 30 2010 06:14 luckybeni2 wrote: It certanly is possible. His series against JD showed a very high skill level again. On his A-game he can defeat anyone. I would not put him on the PR even if he beats both fantasy and bisu this month since there are a lot of people who deserved it more. Maybe next time. Anyway I really wonder where Stork rounds up. That was a pretty brutal stomping he gave there. This will be a really interesting one since Baby, Stats and Great will have to drop out and effort should probably go in the lower half and Free has barely played(maybe he drops out, too). Stats has to drop off? Because he was cheesed out by Calm? Or "fell prey to his mind games?" | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5572 Posts
On July 30 2010 07:28 TwoToneTerran wrote: Stats should drop. I mean he ONLY had the MSL to prepare for and he threw the game away with a critical mistake -- it was like Jaedong forgetting Swarm, you just can't let something that crucial happen when an attack is coming right at your doorstep. I feel that that kind of mistakes says absolutely nothing about a players skill level. Every player probably hits some random keys every game, and sometimes you just get unlucky. I remember Tasteless once said that he quit a game in a tournament by just hitting the wrong keys in the wrong order lol. | ||
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eNyoron
United States170 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 30 2010 05:28 Yxes2211 wrote: Oh man who new Kal had that series in him If I was judging the PR off the MSL only, then i'd definitely put Kal up there but lets see how he does against a very strong SKT and in his OSL debut I'm curious to see how Plexa reacts to Jaedong losing to Kal though. Since everyone expected JD to roll him, I wouldn't be surprised if he counts it against JD. I mean, it's a viable argument, but really comes down to whether you see it as Kal playing well, or Jaedong playing sloppy :p That said, best series of the night :D hands down :p It'll be like "games a player win don't say much about their skill level, but the ones they lose do. The game where Jaedong lost to Kal proved that he's not good enough for #1 PR". I can just see it. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Difficult month for PR. The games to come will matter a lot me thinks. Effort, Light, Roro, Flash, Bisu, Zero, Jaedong, Sea, and Free all have Starleague games to play and the first day of SKT1 and STX is the last day of the month, giving Fantasy, Bisu and Best all another shot to show where they are. I don't think I'd consider anyone on STX for Power Rank this month regardless of results. Yes, Kal and Calm both had a good showing last night, but it's not enough to make up for months (plural) of failure (Kal being 9-14 since his slaughter at the hands of Effort, 3-7 in his last 10 and Calm being 5-13 since his loss to JD, 4-6 in his last 10). At the end of the day, results do matter. | ||
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Brokenlamp
United States39 Posts
I seem to remember Plexa specifically stating several times in his (wonderful) articles that he is an unabashed Jaedong anti-fan. So this isnt just some made up perceived bias. Placing a 5-6 Flash over an 11-2 Jaedong requires creative logic at best. And unfortunately I'm pretty sure thats what we are seeing here. "Learning more from losses" is the worst kind of cop out when it comes to rankings. Plexa does an awesome job for the most part. But its just common knowledge that Jaedong is going to have to do WAY more than the average pro-gamer to even impress him...let alone begrudgingly earn a spot above flash. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
I could go on for more, but I think I’ve made the point rather clearly by now - Jaedong is to Zerg as Nada is to Terran. Do you know who wrote this? Read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=102206 The main reason for Flash being #1 was that he had just come off of back-to-back dual finals, OBLITERATING Jaedong 3-0 in utterly convincing fashion. A few hiccups and people go "Flash isn't who he used to be." Flash's position is not at all unprecedented. Savior remained #1 on PR even after losing to Bisu. He remained #2 even after losing to NaDa in OGN Masters. Face it: Flash was rewarded for doing things we haven't seen since there was a bonjwa in Starcraft. Even if Flash sucks for the rest of the month (losing 3 games), he'll stay top 5 in Power Rank. If he sucks, he won't keep #1, but PR has always rewarded momentum. But what you fangirls refuse to believe is that Jaedong also gets allowances. Plexa knows how good Jaedong is. Even if he utterly flubs his last game for the month, the worst that will happen is #2. Neither Bisu nor Effort will be allowed to challenge his spot. And even if he sucks next month and gets knocked out of both leagues, he'll stay on the Power Rank. Because of momentum. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8551 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On July 30 2010 14:07 Avidkeystamper wrote: Um, I actually thought that Jaedong would be 2nd last month too, but then Effort snuck in from no where really. I mayaswell say that I expected to rank that month Flash-Jaedong-Effort. That 3-0 was really bad  | ||
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Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
On July 30 2010 15:21 Plexa wrote: I mayaswell say that I expected to rank that month Flash-Jaedong-Effort. That 3-0 was really bad Oh man I do not envy u bro for having to do this months PR D: Unless there is some major chokage you're gonna have some tough decisions D: Best of luck man And friendly push for JD as number 1 :D | ||
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On July 30 2010 15:53 InFdude wrote: Push for what ? This PR is a joke even if Flash loses his next two games and Jaedong wins his game Flash will still be N1 in PR. In the next 16 years Flash will be N1 thanks to his dual finals. Is this kind of post really necessary? There is a method to how I do things and as much as I hate Jaedong I quite clearly am able to give him credit where it's due. ranking 3-10 this month is harder than 1-2 imo | ||
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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