Pick Your Power Mafia! - Page 8

On May 02 2010 04:25 Qatol wrote:
Lots of stuff to comment about:

Bill, why are you withholding your number? As I've already explained, your number cannot hurt the town or the SK. It can only hurt the mafia.


If you're really green, you would rather that you have the role Inventor than anyone else have it. If you don't want your targets to have anything good, give them something like a gun without bullets. If you actually want to help the side you just claimed for, you will give out veteran vests or alignment check kits because they don't help the mafia but they help the town. Then it doesn't matter who you gave your inventions to. Nothing else helps the town as much as taking that role. Don't try to out think this, Bill. Just think through the logic of the stuff I have already presented.

Easily compensated for. First of all, it hands us a mafia with one of these 3 roles. That is a big hit for the mafia. Second of all, just consider taking one of them yourself (preference for the earlier ones in the list of 3). Just leave the threat out there that the "best" roles may not fall down to the mafia where they want to take them.

Do not tell us until after the roles are given out. In fact, consider rethinking your choice if you don't trust Bill, L's replacement, or Foolishness.


That should account for your discrepancy. I'll post an updated list at the end of this post.

Agreed. The numbers probably won't help us in the short run (unless the mafia lie and we catch them), but in the long run, it is a way to find mafia and innocents logically (meaning anyone can do it and the mafia can't argue their way out of it).

Thanks for the vote of confidence. You had better pick roleblocker.

Is there a good argument why we shouldn't? I haven't seen one so far.

Not really. Compulsive Vigilante gets to hit every night. Jack gets 1 chance to use the Vigilante role. For the mafia, Investigate (gives alignment) is only useful for finding the SK, talk just isn't that strong except in the hands of very specific people, and Protect doesn't help the mafia much. Shoot is good. Remember, the Jack only gets 1 shot with each role. I'm honestly more worried about Day Vigilante (which can't be blocked).
+ Show Spoiler [Updated number list +
If you haven't claimed, you are a suspect. I expect the mafia to try and hold out as long as possible to give them flexibility about lying (just in case their number was tripled up). Claim your numbers!

On May 02 2010 05:08 Zona wrote:
I'm glad someone's stepping up with the first proposals for the town. Yet once again, in yet another game, I have to take issues with the blind spots in the plan, as well as the "I declare it, thus it must be so" tone and mindset.


I think it's clear to everyone that Inventor and Compulsive Vigilante are by far the most powerful and influential roles in the game, so it's no surprise when you mention them, but I find it curious you lump the roleblocker with them. The roleblocker is a very weak role for town, and while it can be useful for mafia, there are far better picks for them. The only critical situation where I see mafia really wanting the roleblocker is to counter a vocal pro-town bulletproof player, as they will have no other way to get rid of them. It's true that the roleblocker can shut down a town power role, even perhaps the compulsive vig or inventor, but don't overestimate the importance of having such roles active for the town. A compulsive town vig will likely hit a lot of town anyways, and depending on which plan the town inventor follows (night-protect vests, investigate kits, etc), it's similar to a medic, or a cop. To be honest a town inventor might get more mileage out of more wild ideas than the ones presented so far. Still, this is just a relatively minor issue I have with your plan.


More importantly is the lack of focus on town grabbing powers that are important to town success. Particularly, investigative roles (tracker, alignment cop) that are very important for town. Now you mention that these are "very important" in your post but then ask that those near the bottom try to get them? Shouldn't players in the middle or even higher up aim to snag these?

Your proposal seems focused on denying powers to mafia, which is a good thing. But that's only HALF the story, and missing the important other half: grabbing essential powers for the town. Without investigative roles on the town's side, the town's chances of winning are very low. When I was digging through statistics of played games when trying to ensure that the balance in Micro-MAFIA was as best as it could be - I found something very striking. In the absense of cops, even a 5:1 ratio of town to mafia was shown to be mafia favored. And it's striking how many games are lost for town when the cop dies early on. This showed me that investigative powers are core to a town's success. In fact, given the unknown sanity on the alignment cop - the tracker is likely the most powerful investigative role in the game. This is really why I don't like how you list roleblocker as the third thing for town to grab - when tracker and alignment cop are far more important for town members high up in the draft order to choose.

It's all good to deny the mafia strong powers - I agree this is important. But if town gets denied the investigative powers, it will be very difficult to identify the right targets to lynch, unless you are banking on scum making mistakes. But I'll reiterate - in the absense of cops, even a 5:1 ratio of town to mafia was found to be mafia favored. Town needs the investigative powers. Getting investigative powers is as important, if not moreso, than denying mafia killing powers. So focusing on the latter misses at least half of the picture.


Finally, I really dislike how you make a declaration as if your proposal is the only one to be followed, and make statements as extreme as "we will immediately lynch you" if someone steps out of line - especially when your plan is flawed. As well, if the top draft order people actually do listen to you, then they've basically claimed their role day 1, making it a lot easier for the mafia to take steps to mitigate their power. A major part of the mafia's game plan is to identify which players have the power roles which are a threat to them - your plan does that for them. I'd rather players make their picks in secret, and only claim when necessary. This keeps the mafia guessing as to who has what power, and who is really a threat to them.

Summary and a proposed alternative:
Qatol's plan focuses mainly on denying mafia powers (the good part) and misses the boat on grabbing essential town powers, such as investigative roles (the bad part). While he does mention the "importance" of various roles to the town, the way he asks players to pick does not put any real emphasis on getting such roles. Also, he wants certain players to pick certain roles - so if his plan is followed, it's clear to the mafia who owns what powers.

Alternative, better proposal: Follow Qatol's emphasis on the compulsive vig and inventor roles, but not the roleblocker. Include the tracker and alignment cop in the "group of important roles". Do not follow Qatol's plan of person x in the draft order picks role y. Instead, if you are a town player high in the draft order, go for one of these, but don't make it obvious which one you have, so it's harder for mafia to arrange their plans on how to deal with these powers. While it's a risk that certain players in the draft order won't get their pick if not all the picks are laid out beforehand, that risk applies to mafia too. If town members DID in fact follow the plan and picked the role that they were told to, mafia can also pick roles without fear of being bumped into vanilla.