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On March 10 2010 10:14 Ace wrote:
Well erm...even if the rest of the town is open to sniping an unkillable DT is going to rape face. Worse if the DT also gets 3 votes v_v
Just letting you know ahead of time this is hella broken but o well ^_^
DT just isn't that strong of a role. I'm more afraid of unkillable Ver or unkillable MBH than I ever would be of an unkillable DT. Besides, if the medics stack on the BG, hit the town hard. You know the town is stupid about revealing their roles/ acting funny when they have a role. So kill the blues. By the time unkillable DT has actually established trust, the blues are in shambles. Also, KP is usually higher than medic count. I don't know that is the case this time, I'd say it's a pretty fair guess. If the mafia really really want someone dead, they can probably kill that person.
Note: elected roles weren't my idea either, but I like them especially in a game without clues. I think activity tends to stagnate when you don't have clues or elected officials because there isn't that much to talk about in the early game. That won't be entirely true in this game because of the Bus Driver, but just look at mini mafia 3.
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On March 10 2010 10:31 flamewheel91 wrote:Read the rules.
O SHI-
WILL I ACTUALLY GET ZAPPED FOR SPAMMING?
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On March 10 2010 10:33 Abenson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 10:31 flamewheel91 wrote:On March 10 2010 10:29 Abenson wrote:
I meant by how it'll get me fried Read the rules. O SHI- WILL I ACTUALLY GET ZAPPED FOR SPAMMING?
All jokes aside, I would prefer it if you didn't spam. It makes it easier for me and the rest of the players/viewers.
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On March 10 2010 07:09 Malongo wrote:
Dont give me a vigi role, im killing the first one that double posts. No kidding.
I guess you're killing citi.zen. He double posted on page 3!
*goes off to bully flamewheel into making Malongo vigi**
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DT is the strongest role in the game. It's just that very few players know what to do with it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't make your game break-proof.
Even and unkillable Ver or MBH can't argue against the word of a cop sitting behind 2 layers of protection. Here let me break the game before it even starts:
25 players.
Ace wins the election, L gets Pardoner.
Ace: Guys I'm a detective.
Mod says the 2 publicly announced bodyguards are Bill Murray and Malongo.
Medics dont have to do anything but protect these 2.
After night 1:
Guys, these are the results of my investigation.
Mafia kill 2 people the next night.
Next day someone dies. We're down to 22 players with a cop investigation, another night, no dead BGS, no dead medics, and still the possibility of another cop out there. Not to mention other killing roles.
Many people don't realize the real power of the cop isn't finding Mafia but also confirming innocents. Every night the cop lives, the game becomes a numbers game. Unfortunately it also becomes a game of find the medic. This is no longer a game based on out thinking anyone.
So what is the Mafia going to do? Keep hitting from the pool of townies which unfortunately for them means screwing themselves over? What are they going to do when a SECOND cop role claims? In a 25 person game you're looking at 5, maybe 6 Goons. Do you seriously think hitting the town is a proper response to a game breaking strategy? It's not.
If players don't know how to make the game start without elections or clues then they either have to get better or the Mods as a whole need to add more interesting mechanics. Something that lends itself to breaking isn't a solution.
The more I look at this setup the more I see it so easy to break and so hard for the Mafia to win. Do you want a game where we have to use our heads, or have to follow our Blue roles to victory? If it's the latter I'll actually just withdraw so I don't grief the town.
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On March 10 2010 10:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 10:24 Qatol wrote:On March 10 2010 09:32 Ace wrote:
just as an aside, Detectives normally don't get results of their checks back until the daytime. I thought all mods knew that? o.0
and elected roles again? seriously? :/ Detectives have been getting the results of their rolechecks back as soon as the mod sees the rolecheck request since like forever. I honestly can't think of a game where DTs got the rolechecks back at the end of the night before this one. It was like that from way way way back. I've only been a DT once on TL so I didn't know mods were doing that. Technically no one is supposed to talk at night. So if a cop gets an RC during the night before it ends it kinda screws the Mafia over. Hence even if the Cop dies that night his information still got out. If they get their information back before night ends then they are daytime cops and should be called as such.
You were DT like a few games ago though. Hell, if I remember correctly, I was the one who replied to your rolecheck.... in the middle of the night. And yeah, the Cop being able to get the info out fast was just kinda a feature of the role I thought. At least we don't have Cops checking in the middle of the day and affecting the day 1 lynch any more.
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Yes I think thats the only time I've ever been a Detective.
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On March 10 2010 10:45 Ace wrote:
DT is the strongest role in the game. It's just that very few players know what to do with it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't make your game break-proof.
Even and unkillable Ver or MBH can't argue against the word of a cop sitting behind 2 layers of protection. Here let me break the game before it even starts:
25 players.
Ace wins the election, L gets Pardoner.
Ace: Guys I'm a detective.
Mod says the 2 publicly announced bodyguards are Bill Murray and Malongo.
Medics dont have to do anything but protect these 2.
After night 1:
Guys, these are the results of my investigation.
Mafia kill 2 people the next night.
Next day someone dies. We're down to 22 players with a cop investigation, another night, no dead BGS, no dead medics, and still the possibility of another cop out there. Not to mention other killing roles.
Many people don't realize the real power of the cop isn't finding Mafia but also confirming innocents. Every night the cop lives, the game becomes a numbers game. Unfortunately it also becomes a game of find the medic. This is no longer a game based on out thinking anyone.
So what is the Mafia going to do? Keep hitting from the pool of townies which unfortunately for them means screwing themselves over? What are they going to do when a SECOND cop role claims? In a 25 person game you're looking at 5, maybe 6 Goons. Do you seriously think hitting the town is a proper response to a game breaking strategy? It's not.
If players don't know how to make the game start without elections or clues then they either have to get better or the Mods as a whole need to add more interesting mechanics. Something that lends itself to breaking isn't a solution.
The more I look at this setup the more I see it so easy to break and so hard for the Mafia to win. Do you want a game where we have to use our heads, or have to follow our Blue roles to victory? If it's the latter I'll actually just withdraw so I don't grief the town.
I don't think DT is a particularly strong role because of all the uncertainty roles (millers, GF, in this game BDs) inserted which just don't show up properly to role checks.
However, I'll address your situation anyways:
First of all, the DT has to get themselves elected. That isn't a trivial task. We've had what? 2 DTs elected in 20+ games? After that, the DT needs to get themselves trusted. The easiest way to take out an elected DT is to just lynch them. Wasn't that your problem as an unkillable elected DT?
Yes, it puts more pressure on the mafia early, but it is also partially the mafia's fault for letting the DT get elected in the first place.
If both of those situations pass, then yes, I expect the mafia to hit the pool of townies. Specifically, they hit the pool of players who have been rolechecked if they are announced. If they aren't announced, the mafia need to bluesnipe or just stack hits. It isn't a broken strategy if the only reason it is so strong is because the mafia suck too much to get around it.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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It doesn't matter that it can't happen. The fact that if it does happen then the game is instantly over. How does that show good balance? The reason we don't have many elected DTs is simply because of the fact that the people who can get elected usually don't roll DT. "Making sure they dont get elected" isn't going to do much once the guy roleclaims in office.
In fact I've just seen another possible addendum to make the town win even faster. Flamewheel please find a replacement for me. I think if I played this game and rolled Mafia I'd rage.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On March 10 2010 10:57 tree.hugger wrote:
Spot left?
Sure.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On March 10 2010 11:01 Ace wrote:
It doesn't matter that it can't happen. The fact that if it does happen then the game is instantly over. How does that show good balance? The reason we don't have many elected DTs is simply because of the fact that the people who can get elected usually don't roll DT. "Making sure they dont get elected" isn't going to do much once the guy roleclaims in office.
In fact I've just seen another possible addendum to make the town win even faster. Flamewheel please find a replacement for me. I think if I played this game and rolled Mafia I'd rage.
Alright Ace, sorry to see you go.
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On March 10 2010 10:36 flamewheel91 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 10:33 Abenson wrote:On March 10 2010 10:31 flamewheel91 wrote:On March 10 2010 10:29 Abenson wrote:
I meant by how it'll get me fried Read the rules. O SHI- WILL I ACTUALLY GET ZAPPED FOR SPAMMING? All jokes aside, I would prefer it if you didn't spam. It makes it easier for me and the rest of the players/viewers.
O ok...
I'll... *cough* try to not spam and actually make meaningful posts
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Ace ):
you were so much fun to have in games!
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On March 10 2010 11:01 Ace wrote:
It doesn't matter that it can't happen. The fact that if it does happen then the game is instantly over. How does that show good balance? The reason we don't have many elected DTs is simply because of the fact that the people who can get elected usually don't roll DT. "Making sure they dont get elected" isn't going to do much once the guy roleclaims in office.
In fact I've just seen another possible addendum to make the town win even faster. Flamewheel please find a replacement for me. I think if I played this game and rolled Mafia I'd rage.
Damn it, now who will I vigi hit?!? Also, since when are you playing seriously anyway? Just play and hope you get town again so you can screw them over. Call it... "balancing the game" or just "having fun". Finally, this game has busdrivets, so that improves mafia chances greatly.
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On March 10 2010 10:07 Zona wrote:
Oh, you also have Bill Murray on the player's list twice. One of him is...interesting enough. But two?
Please no...... NO
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On March 10 2010 11:51 l10f wrote:is there still a spot? caller's game moved too fast paced for me 
Gotcha. UNO MAS GUYS.
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EPT
