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On May 26 2009 04:20 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2009 03:24 L wrote:On May 26 2009 00:49 Tricode wrote:On May 25 2009 17:43 L wrote:On May 25 2009 10:45 Tricode wrote:On May 25 2009 08:56 L wrote:
Yeah, town activity just fucking dropped off a cliff day 3. You guys had a WALL of information staring you in the face.
Then again, when you have a player like tricode making himself an obvious quickstriker-like retard target... Why do you even speak? Please man up and just say you screwed up in the game and stop trying to point fingers by saying I was the stupid one. I don't know why you keep trying to make me look stupid. You have hardly anyone agreeing with you. So I request you please stop. Pretty sure all the decent players agree you played terribly. :3 Deal with it. Yet I think they can probably agree I did better then you :3 so stop take a breath and realize that FAIL and you are the same thing. Not because you played horribly but because of what you are trying to do right now with me. Once again. I ask you to take it like a man and shut the fuck up. Go think about your damn mistakes. That's what I will be doing. Negative. I pinned you as a stupid townie, didn't I? :3 I'm done with this game. If you feel that accomplished that you pinned me down as a townie, congrats and big deal? You accomplished nothing. I am going to ignore your posts about me now. This is getting no where and I'm sure others are getting annoyed.
This very auto-aggressive defence when criticized is exactly what I'm talking about. It makes you too suspicious as a townie, and sets you up for a mafia seeded fake clue interpretation or behavioral analysis.
Its really quite difficult when sniffing out mafia to have to sift through townies that are self incriminating.
That's not to say that you were the only one to play poorly. I should have kept my prot on dreamflower, bockit played fairly poorly. incognito played poorly, ver played absolutely terribly, etc. Ace played his role perfectly well and we provided a massive amount of information for the town.
For instance, Reading objectively: We set a plan in motion to get 2 sequential double lynches in motion, right? We sacrificed a lot to get it set up, but then on day 3 there's a massive streak of people who don't vote for double, and the issue of double is not brought up in the thread at all? That should have been a KLAXON of "dem fukerz is mafia" blaring into your ear.
I mean, there's so much more, SO much more information that was out there during day 3, but its like people just didn't want to bother reading the thread. 
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L, after all the shit we kept spewing, bumping pages of new posts, who wants to go back and re-read 
hehe
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On May 25 2009 05:47 Mynock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 05:20 HeavOnEarth wrote:
as a townie i must say i was pleasantly(?) surprised/ confused when mafia decided to throw the game. After what has happened, MBH was a goner, and Showtime! has overexposed himself as well (I even promised Tricode I'd re-read all of Showtime!'s posts and find out if what he and BC did was intentional, that is, if they're Mafia). I haven't ever imagined BC as Mafia tho (same as nemY, really), too much exposure for a Mafiosi. Like I said, by that time it was MBH vs MTF, and even I would have been convinced of MTF's innocence after that. Lol, sorry for calling your clue analysis worthless MTF, just goes to show how I have no idea about clues. Also, sorry Tricode, but even tho I really thought you were green all the way (as I told u in PMs), lynching you would still have been a good sacrifice, because we'd get to both Showtime! and BC  . You played good tho, even when accused, from your defense you looked completely innocent, it's just that PM blunder that got you screwed. By comparison, 0cz's defense was utter insanity, I didn't even bother to read any of it, because it made my eyes bleed after the first 10 lines. He could have cleared himself pretty calmly and convincingly, but he basically dug his own grave there.
See Mynock, this was your problem: " By comparison, 0cz's defense was utter insanity, I didn't even bother to read any of it, because it made my eyes bleed after the first 10 lines."
That's why you voted against me, and that's why you thought it was illogical. >.>
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On May 25 2009 09:01 Incognito wrote:
Sigh. The end of game comments. The time where everyone yells about how they knew X and Y were mafia and how Z was MVP because he guessed correctly that X and Y were mafia...
A while ago (don't remember when, but I think it was after a game where mafia got completely destroyed), we discussed how most people didn't know how to play mafia well. Well, now that's kinda different. People know how to play mafia decently, they don't know how to play town well. Seriously all of this "I knew X and Y were mafia from day 2" BS doesn't matter if nobody can trust you as town. The yelling and other chaotic tactics employed by L/0cz3c/Ace don't help the town either. This style behavior makes it fairly easy for them to hide when they are in fact mafia. The ambiguity and chaos caused does not help the town.
Its not the town's responsibility to figure out what you're really trying to say. Its not the town's responsibility to "read objectively". The only reason you'd have to post emotionally is when you're mafia. Its not your job to be right then act strangely arrogantly just because you are right. Its your job to make the town think you're innocent, then proceed accordingly. I think that people like Ace play this game simply to prove that they are right. They yell a lot, get themselves lynched, then yell back at the town saying how they suck and that they were too blind to see what was in front of them...It doesn't help at all. All it gives them is bragging rights to tell the town how they were right all along and that the town is stupid. At the point where you start bulldogging you might as well be dead. They are useless to you alive. Nobody will or wants to or even should listen to you KNOWING WHAT THEY KNOW at that point. Of course in retrospect you can yell at them and say how they suck, but it makes no sense when AT THE MOMENT you are just bringing suspicion onto yourself and not helping the town.
A lot of townies did not do their job to make it clear that they were town aligned. I won't mention names but seriously you can't expect to construct poor defense, appear out of nowhere with accusations, and yell when there are better things you can be doing to help the town. Painting yourself as a target does not help the town at all. A townie's first job is not to find mafia. It is to make sure that he looks like a townie. Otherwise looking for mafia is hopeless. A lot of townies made themselves very suspicious. Mafia capitalized on this fact. As a rule, concern yourself with taking care of your own role before looking at other people's roles.
I didn't employ chaos tactics after MBH said I'm mafia.
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On May 26 2009 00:58 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Tricode and L, calm the fuck down. Who the fuck cares who did better? We all sucked for the most part. You are basically arguing over whose shit stinks the least.
oh and I probably wouldn't of lynched 0cz3c if he didn't try the bodyguard role claim and mod kill himself. It seemed like a mafias stupid attempt to say alive. Until then I thought MBH clue analysis sucked.
Heh. I didn't try the bodyguard roleclaim (not entirely sure about what you're talking, however).
("Wouldn't have" by the way)
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MTF was by far the best player this game, at least for the town. He did the only excellent clue analysis in this game. His analysis of my situation against MBH was incredibly logical and persuasive, at least for me. And he did all this with the town not even considering to kill him. It was very well done.
So, BC, I felt convinced you were mafia. I was hoping MBH and you would die the first day. Then MTF posted the vivi analysis, and I switched my vote on someone substantiated by clues. At this point I thought it was fairly obvious Showtime was mafia. My post against him at one point was in now way aggressive; yet, he pretended that it was [and then he continued with the same hopeless, repetitious phrases]. Couldn't continue simply accusing everyone left and right (although most were mafia. Heh.) until MBH came up red. Hoped to come back from the weekend with two mafia dead and me still alive.
I thought L played very well, by the way. I don't think that there could have been a more conspicuous green/blue (although I had thought that he was green).
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Haha, 0cz, I wanted the mafia to hit you over infundi, but they wanted to leave you alive =(
You were too close in your analysis before the day 3 started that i wanted you removed.
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On May 25 2009 17:51 L wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 13:04 Ace wrote:On May 25 2009 11:53 Showtime! wrote:On May 25 2009 04:52 Ace wrote:
@Showtime!
You guys were a lot farther from the win than you think. The game only tipped when you and MBH came out in public and started posting.
Before that, if anyone was paying attention you guys pretty much had no chance to win because you were too exposed. Once Ver died - you, Caller, and BC were all out in the open.
Also lol @ blue sniping: look at what MBH just posted. Come on man how many times do I have to tell you guys I don't believe in that shit. If people just stop trying to play the game in PM land and keep their heads in the thread they'd stop fucking themselves and the town over. Do you want to read our MSN chat logs? Matt not only knew who was blue (with the exception of Lucas and MM because there was no way of telling they were BGs), but he knew their exact role. Originally we were going to get Heavon and Tricode. 9v6 or 8v6 (with Cam Modkilled). Do the math and look who was left. It would have been easy. We had everything planned out, so don't give me that whole 'you were far from winning shit.' Qatol was going to end the game as long as we lynched off two greens. End of story. There were too many mishaps and all of us were sick and tired of it. your talking about the very last night, I'm telling you you had it lost days before that. If you really think you had it that easy then you wouldn't have felt the need to quit. you fail. GG. Well, yes and no. If town had 2-3 more players who were active, yes. But they didn't, so no. Then again, look at the replies here. People are like 'LOL ITS NOT THE TOWN'S JOB TO THINK", "PLEASE GUIDE US IN A SHEEP-LIKE MANNER". Maybe 2-3 people wouldn't have done anything afterall :3.
I never said its not the town's job to think. But your later post did say what I was trying to get at:
This very auto-aggressive defence when criticized is exactly what I'm talking about. It makes you too suspicious as a townie, and sets you up for a mafia seeded fake clue interpretation or behavioral analysis.
Its really quite difficult when sniffing out mafia to have to sift through townies that are self incriminating.
I think we can agree that it is better to force mafia to look townish via townies making sure they look green instead of allowing mafia the luxury to appear suspicious because of townies who are doing the same. Simple activity is not enough. Mafia still hid well in this game even though most people were active. People need to be active, but they must act in the right way to force the mafia to act like the town. If townies self incriminate, we have even more problems.
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On May 26 2009 09:07 Camlito wrote:
I think i helped alot.
MVP.
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On May 26 2009 07:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:L, after all the shit we kept spewing, bumping pages of new posts, who wants to go back and re-read hehe
Yeah, this is why I say I vastly overestimated the skill of the town. There were maybe 2-3 important posts per page and its rather easy to zoom in on them.
When I gave the town the method of searching for specific posts, I figured they would use that to cross check what confirmed innocents were saying.
I also assumed that the town would specifically look at the last incriminations I made.
-> Scamp
-> Showtime!
-> nemY (which i revoked right before the vote b/c I was hoping that pointing a finger at him would make him less likely to get hit, and I had like 4 targets I wanted to keep up).
Overall, this game really drove home how marketing you need to be. Just throw some fucking colours into your post and call people idiots when they're making perfectly rational and logical analysis.
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On May 26 2009 20:38 L wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2009 07:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:L, after all the shit we kept spewing, bumping pages of new posts, who wants to go back and re-read hehe Yeah, this is why I say I vastly overestimated the skill of the town. There were maybe 2-3 important posts per page and its rather easy to zoom in on them. When I gave the town the method of searching for specific posts, I figured they would use that to cross check what confirmed innocents were saying. I also assumed that the town would specifically look at the last incriminations I made. -> Scamp -> Showtime! -> nemY (which i revoked right before the vote b/c I was hoping that pointing a finger at him would make him less likely to get hit, and I had like 4 targets I wanted to keep up). Overall, this game really drove home how marketing you need to be. Just throw some fucking colours into your post and call people idiots when they're making perfectly rational and logical analysis.
If that was the case why did 10 townies die before you guys could lynch a mafia member? L for future games you should take a step back and read everyone's posts and maybe not 'analyze,' since as far as I remembered you were one of the most misleading townies of the bunch.
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Well, it was the case.
Typically town members die off in larger numbers early because mafia are steering people and keeping their heads down and there's very little in the way of clue continuity. Day 1 gives nearly zero and the mayoral lynch is always off, Day 2 gives the first series of real clues. Day 3 you guys fucked up and lost. I don't see many games in which mafia get consistently hit during day 1 or 2. Time is always against mafia; more clues, more vote lists, more posts = more evidence and more accurate shots.
I mean, what exactly are you trying to say? That the town could not have possibly seen through what was happening day 3?
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On May 27 2009 00:10 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2009 20:38 L wrote:On May 26 2009 07:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:L, after all the shit we kept spewing, bumping pages of new posts, who wants to go back and re-read hehe Yeah, this is why I say I vastly overestimated the skill of the town. There were maybe 2-3 important posts per page and its rather easy to zoom in on them. When I gave the town the method of searching for specific posts, I figured they would use that to cross check what confirmed innocents were saying. I also assumed that the town would specifically look at the last incriminations I made. -> Scamp -> Showtime! -> nemY (which i revoked right before the vote b/c I was hoping that pointing a finger at him would make him less likely to get hit, and I had like 4 targets I wanted to keep up). Overall, this game really drove home how marketing you need to be. Just throw some fucking colours into your post and call people idiots when they're making perfectly rational and logical analysis. If that was the case why did 10 townies die before you guys could lynch a mafia member? L for future games you should take a step back and read everyone's posts and maybe not 'analyze,' since as far as I remembered you were one of the most misleading townies of the bunch.
Because once those 2 bodyguards died the situation between Ver and myself had to be cleared up. It was the best move for the town to do so. If those 2 bodyguards didn't die, or Ver lynched you or MBH on Day 1 I'm sure the election candidates would have been the next suspects.
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On May 27 2009 06:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 00:10 Amber[LighT] wrote:On May 26 2009 20:38 L wrote:On May 26 2009 07:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:L, after all the shit we kept spewing, bumping pages of new posts, who wants to go back and re-read hehe Yeah, this is why I say I vastly overestimated the skill of the town. There were maybe 2-3 important posts per page and its rather easy to zoom in on them. When I gave the town the method of searching for specific posts, I figured they would use that to cross check what confirmed innocents were saying. I also assumed that the town would specifically look at the last incriminations I made. -> Scamp -> Showtime! -> nemY (which i revoked right before the vote b/c I was hoping that pointing a finger at him would make him less likely to get hit, and I had like 4 targets I wanted to keep up). Overall, this game really drove home how marketing you need to be. Just throw some fucking colours into your post and call people idiots when they're making perfectly rational and logical analysis. If that was the case why did 10 townies die before you guys could lynch a mafia member? L for future games you should take a step back and read everyone's posts and maybe not 'analyze,' since as far as I remembered you were one of the most misleading townies of the bunch. Because once those 2 bodyguards died the situation between Ver and myself had to be cleared up. It was the best move for the town to do so. If those 2 bodyguards didn't die, or Ver lynched you or MBH on Day 1 I'm sure the election candidates would have been the next suspects.
No it didn't.
That kill was dumb luck. There's no way anyone knew about those roles. I didn't understand why during the game people kept using that as an argument for why one of you two had to be mafia. Bodyguards typically get little benefit telling the mayor or pardoner their role, especially those two players who were probably not going to be lynched. And it's not like we hit the 'mayor' or 'pardoner' twice because (AFAIK) in order to get to you or Ver we had to find the bodyguards, which was done really with just luck (or MBH's apparent psychic powers whichever seems more fitting).
Those two kills really should have been ignored, or at least take into account why those two people died:
Were they particularly active? Meh they were in the middle.
Did they ever hint about mafia? I believe they made one or two posts blaming users.
Would their death cause confusion and possibly spill red paint on a possible innocent group? Hell yah motherfucker.
So Ace, WHY would mafia want the townies who died to die during this game? ......
The entire game was a snowball effect of 'well this person died so these three people are to blame because they were talking with him,' or 'well this person died because he said x y and z about that other person.'
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I don't think you understand.
Ver sent me a PM saying he wants to kill you or MBH.
He lynches infinty21.
Then 2 bodyguards die the next day.
Seriously how hard is this to figure out? Sure the kills were dumb luck but from the town's POV that was damn near impossible. Look at the odds of both bodyguards dying and tell me how your post makes any sense
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On May 27 2009 22:57 Ace wrote::/ I don't think you understand. Ver sent me a PM saying he wants to kill you or MBH. He lynches infinty21. Then 2 bodyguards die the next day. Seriously how hard is this to figure out? Sure the kills were dumb luck but from the town's POV that was damn near impossible. Look at the odds of both bodyguards dying and tell me how your post makes any sense
yeah that was me and tails
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On May 27 2009 22:57 Ace wrote::/ I don't think you understand. Ver sent me a PM saying he wants to kill you or MBH. He lynches infinty21. Then 2 bodyguards die the next day. Seriously how hard is this to figure out? Sure the kills were dumb luck but from the town's POV that was damn near impossible. Look at the odds of both bodyguards dying and tell me how your post makes any sense
I said that both bodygaurds died to dumb luck.
The odds of both bodyguards dying in the same night is slim-to-none, which would imply that the mafia would have to have some dumb luck.
I'm going to stand by my previous statement, and perhaps you just don't get what I'm trying to say.
Maybe Ver should discuss why he gave you those two choices? I have a hunch as to why he did, but it would be better if he explained his reasoning. (unless it's already in the thread somewhere sorry I don't really feel like digging for this)
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USA5860 Posts
On May 26 2009 08:59 0cz3c wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2009 00:58 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Tricode and L, calm the fuck down. Who the fuck cares who did better? We all sucked for the most part. You are basically arguing over whose shit stinks the least.
oh and I probably wouldn't of lynched 0cz3c if he didn't try the bodyguard role claim and mod kill himself. It seemed like a mafias stupid attempt to say alive. Until then I thought MBH clue analysis sucked. Heh. I didn't try the bodyguard roleclaim (not entirely sure about what you're talking, however). ("Wouldn't have" by the way)
:D My bad English grammar isn't a strong suite of mine, but at least I try
and I meant Veteran, didn't you try to come out and say that, or am I remembering wrong?
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USA5860 Posts
Amber, you attribute it to dumb luck (which apparently it was) and as the town we looked at the statistic probability of them both dying, it was something like 1 in 680? I can't remember. With those odds we had to assume that they leaked to someone, even though I couldn't see mikeymoo doing that but I don't know much about lucas.
From our perspective they had to leak to someone to make it even possible, at least one of them. The dumb luck scenario required well, way too much dumb luck.
So we decided to purge the office of red.
There was no red.
Fuck.
That is basically what happened. If you can't see how that fucked the town over, then you need to think more. Combine that with the random ass infinity21 lynch as opposed to 1/2 mafia and we were like "Wtf? Something is not right in there"
A lot of bad luck plagued the town and turned us stupid. If those two things didn't happen, if you hit any other blue this game might of gone different.
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EPT
