Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly.
Power Rank 11/10/2008 - Page 13
Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet |
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
| ||
baubo
China3370 Posts
On November 16 2008 18:30 Sentenal wrote: There is no point in looking at stats from several months ago. MSL and OSL groups, which were the last time Bisu lost PvTs, were a while ago. Hell, that loss to Flash was from that Bunker Rush game on Medusa, it wasn't exactly a game that shows Bisu's skill in the MU one way or another. Faulting Bisu now for those games, is like faulting Bisu for being ranked #8 on the power ranks a month ago. And the PvTs where he has played in recent history, he looked beastly. I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). | ||
vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
Bisu currently doesn't qualify for #1 because the #1 has already decisively beaten him, and he's not gonna play against and defeat Stork in PvP any time soon. | ||
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote: I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). The main reason why I think Bisu's PvZ >> Stork's PvZ, is because Stork really hasn't been tested at all in that MU recently, unless you count WCG. Its not really the same thing with Bisu's PvT, which he has been tested in recently. To be honest, I haven't watched Stork's recent PvZs, but I don't think you can say Stork's 2-1 win over Orion in GOM puts Stork's PvZ on the same level as Bisu's 3-0 of FBH and 2-0 of Hwasin. And just for the record, I agree that Stork should stay #1 with Bisu at #2, provided they keep playing how they both have been playing. There isn't any reason for Stork to fall on the ranks if he hasn't played as much. He is the best player in the world right now. I just think people are trying to push him to another level, as if Stork is somehow so incompariable to any other player, that Stork is somehow an invincible God, while the players who have also been playing excellently recently don't measure up at all. | ||
baubo
China3370 Posts
| ||
Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
| ||
raga4ka
Bulgaria5676 Posts
On November 16 2008 20:32 baubo wrote: Are you seriously counting Hwasin and FBH as "tested" series? The only guy who has been even more of a Protoss' bitch than FBH has been Hwasin. The guy just rolls over when facing protosses. I don't know they are pretty close . I think FBH sucks more because he gets humiliated more :D . | ||
raga4ka
Bulgaria5676 Posts
On November 16 2008 18:59 baubo wrote: I pointed that out to show that Stork isn't just good at PvT, he's pretty much invincible at it. One can argue that Bisu is anywhere from inconsistent to very good in the MU, but you cannot say that Stork is nothing less than Godly in it. I was just going by your standard of Bisu PvZ >> Stork's. Stork has been very good PvZ lately. But I did not disagree with you in the area because he hasn't shown anywhere close to the consistency that Bisu has. If Stork > Bisu PvT, then Bisu > Stork PvZ. The gap between them in these two MUs is about equal. You can either say they're both really close to each other in both MUs(going by very recent record) or both quite better than the other in them(going by long term history). Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . | ||
Geo.Rion
7376 Posts
| ||
TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
OneOther, you will have to settle for a lower spot. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
| ||
TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
Still, you won!! No fail icon! :D (and would beat the crap out of my ZvP, which is terrible) | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
| ||
Avidkeystamper
United States8551 Posts
| ||
p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
On November 17 2008 13:08 Avidkeystamper wrote: Jaedong's dropping to around 8th next month, I'm guessing. Any reasoning behind this? He's 4-1 this month and if he wins his Classic games while keeping up a solid record in PL, why should he drop that far? If he does those things, I could see JangBi passing him, but no one else really. Maybe there's an argument for Flash to pass him, but that's it. The farthest I could possibly see him falling is to 6th, barring anything unfortunate happening against Tempest. | ||
Malongo
Chile3466 Posts
On November 17 2008 02:02 raga4ka wrote: Yeah but there are more T players in leagues then Zs , althought the best zerg players normaly wins the tournament . I think stork right now is invincible vs Terran and maybe only Flash can challenge him . Stork is better then Flash if he doesn't choke . On the other hand Bisu is not invincible in PvZ and the gap between their PvZ and PvT is different . Yes he is strong but he doesn't boot the record in PvZ that Stork does in PvT with much less games played and Bisu will be 50-50 % at best vs players like JD or July on which he hasn't or couldn't prove his superiorness in PvZ, but Stork will have an advantage vs the best TvP players if he doesn't choke badly.Even if he lost to Flash in recent leagues before he beated him as much . All i know is that July Imo is the favourite vs any and all protoss players . From all the games i've watched him play ZvP he just plays it by instinct and rapes . Jaedong normaly trys to outsmart players and take slight advantages that then uses them to rape - like drops or muta harras sneaking lings to harras that sort of things. And if he trys it and it doesn't work he gets behind a bit and fights an uphill battle vs toss players but still even behind his mechanics and game sense most time prevails even vs great PvZ players . The Bisu fans should start argueing that Bisu is better then Stork if/after he manages to beat JangBI , because from what i've saw in their PvP he'll struggle a lot . I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz. | ||
Avidkeystamper
United States8551 Posts
On November 17 2008 15:44 []p4NDemik[] wrote: Any reasoning behind this? He's 4-1 this month and if he wins his Classic games while keeping up a solid record in PL, why should he drop that far? If he does those things, I could see JangBi passing him, but no one else really. Maybe there's an argument for Flash to pass him, but that's it. The farthest I could possibly see him falling is to 6th, barring anything unfortunate happening against Tempest. Nothing against Jaedong, it's just that a lot of people (looking at the protosses) have been performing more solidly than he has been. I'm a Jaedong fanboy, and your post gives me renewed hope. I guess there can be the argument that Flash took FOREVER to drop after he started playing crappily. | ||
traced
1739 Posts
On November 17 2008 15:59 malongo wrote: I wont argue here for stork or bisu but got to say that bisus pvz while not invincible is the best in the world, now and ever, his builds are smart, his timing is sick. In fact ive never seen a pvz where bisu lost bad, its always a good rush, a timed attack or a sick play from the zerg, but ive never seen bisu outplayed on pvz. only time i ever saw bisu outplayed was vs jaedong on blue storm and jaedong won by the slimmest of margins. it was a sick game, bisu was pretty soundly ahead until jaedong doom dropped with his whole army right as bisu moved out, forcing bisu back so jaedong could pump drones and make up economy. | ||
Avidkeystamper
United States8551 Posts
On November 17 2008 16:32 traced wrote: only time i ever saw bisu outplayed was vs jaedong on blue storm and jaedong won by the slimmest of margins. it was a sick game, bisu was pretty soundly ahead until jaedong doom dropped with his whole army right as bisu moved out, forcing bisu back so jaedong could pump drones and make up economy. He also got pretty badly outplayed in the group stages of the Arena MSL in both the First Set and Final Set vs Jaedong. But that was during his "recession" and Jaedong's ZvP tear. | ||
| ||